Brazil TAM Airlines Flight 3054 CVR Released

[The Victors]

I wonder how the public would react if they "Knew" that the pilots aren't really in control of the metal tube they're sitting in?

 

[Donsa320]

Donsa320, I think you need to update your MEL. It now requires both reversers to be used after touchdown even if one is inop to comply with the MEL. PPrune has over 1000 posts faulting the crew for using the older procedure of leaving the inop TR in idle. Thank God I'm a Boeing guy. The pilot controls everything.

I dunno, I checked with Airbus MIA and you can get forward thrust if you select reverse thrust with an inop reverser.
I only had one inop reverse situation in my former life and I let the auto-brakes do it all.

As to Boeing, I guess the MDW reverse accident did not happen.

No system substitutes for pilot system knowlege, and/ or poor flying technique.IMHO.

Enjoy your career.

Don

 

[The Victors]

Hi Don.
If you make a statement about something in which you obviously have no clue what you're talking about it makes you look like a total moron. Just keep that in mind in the future.

The swa mdw accident had NOTHING to do with the thrust reverser or boeing systems.

 

[Donsa320]

It was supposed to fly into the trees and burst into flames?

It may have done what it was programmed to do, but it didn't do what the pilot expected it to do...

Yes it was supposed to land. The approach was made to a 2500ft turf runway. The trees were at the end. When the company checkpilot/captain realized he wasn't getting an Alpha floor and went to TOGA power manually, the N1 only got to 85% when the trees kinda slowed them down. Yes he had the stick full back but Alpha Protection prevented a stall and limited the pitch attitude accordingly.

You can paint any airplane into a corner from which there is no escape.

Don.

 

[Donsa320]

Hi Don.
If you make a statement about something in which you obviously have no clue what you're talking about it makes you look like a total moron. Just keep that in mind in the future.

The swa mdw accident had NOTHING to do with the thrust reverser or boeing systems.

Thanks for the advice, whoever you are.

 

[vetrider]

You can paint any airplane into a corner from which there is no escape.

Don.[/quote]

A very basic and very true statement.

 

[bubbers44]

Donsa, If you flew the C47 and DC3 you probably haven't flown the A320 in a lot of years so you don't have the MEL. You do not get forward thrust reversing inop TR's on the A320. I promise I never have or ever will fly an Airbus. My choice.

 

[The Victors]

I will admit that the airbus cabin is a much nicer design for the passengers, but I can't imagine having to bargin with my aircraft as I try and "fly" it.

 

[Donsa320]

Hi Don.
If you make a statement about something in which you obviously have no clue what you're talking about it makes you look like a total moron. Just keep that in mind in the future.

The swa mdw accident had NOTHING to do with the thrust reverser or boeing systems.

************************************************************
Washington, DC - The National Transportation Safety Board
today determined that the probable cause of a fatal runway
overrun at Chicago's Midway Airport was the pilot's failure
to use available reverse thrust in a timely manner to safely
slow or stop the airplane after landing. This failure
occurred because the pilots' first experience and lack of
familiarity with the airplane's autobrake system distracted
them from thrust reverser usage during the challenging
landing.

 

[Say Again Over]

A bit more to the Paris accident then an A-Floor demonstration, but that's why he went to jail. The facts are not all out on the Brazil accident yet so let's not condemn the pilots yet.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

The pilot went below 300 feet. The automation thinks its going to land. The pilot did not understand the automation of his ship.

Airbus logic stopped the pilot from a stall/spin and kept it straight. If anything, the planes saved lifes that day.

The pilot needs to know what his automation does. He could have saved everyone's life that day if he had.

 

[igneousy2]

************************************************************
Washington, DC - The National Transportation Safety Board
today determined that the probable cause of a fatal runway
overrun at Chicago's Midway Airport was the pilot's failure
to use available reverse thrust in a timely manner to safely
slow or stop the airplane after landing. This failure
occurred because the pilots' first experience and lack of
familiarity with the airplane's autobrake system distracted
them from thrust reverser usage during the challenging
landing.

You are not supposed to have to use reverse thrust. This has been a "loop-hold" that many major airlines have been abusing for years and they finally got caught and the NTSB fell in line and pinned it on the pilots.

Later

 

[Say Again Over]

The pilot went below 300 feet. The automation thinks its going to land

Let's hope you aren't flying one with this knowledge.

 

[FR8mastr]

The pilot went below 300 feet. The automation thinks its going to land. The pilot did not understand the automation of his ship.

Airbus logic stopped the pilot from a stall/spin and kept it straight. If anything, the planes saved lifes that day.

The pilot needs to know what his automation does. He could have saved everyone's life that day if he had.

You made a really good point. The company test pilot did not understand this. Now that is some messed up logic, when a test pilot cant get the plane to do what he wants because of aircraft logic. Yes its true he made an error, but jeez, he had to me more knowledgeable than the average 320 guy.

I must disagree with your statement about the plane saving lives. We all know from windshear training you can fly thru the stick shaker right on the edge of a stall. The airbus will have logic preventing it from getting right to the edge. IE stall plus 10 kts for example. ( I dont know the exact numbers). If that pilot would have been allowed to trade that 10 kts for 10 feet he could have flown it out. It cant take very long for a lightly loaded 320 to gain 20 kts to get back to normal flying speed.

Not to mention firewall thrust. Does anyone know if this was available considering the AC thought it was landing?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Does anyone know if this was available considering the AC thought it was landing?

No, once you're inside 300' you can't go around. Only idle thrust is available. Well, until you land, then you have reverse thrust available. As a matter of fact, you can only hand fly fifi for five minutes or 10,000' which ever comes first. After that, the autopilot automatically engages.

 

[bubbers44]

It must be a bitch flying an approach to 200 ft and no runway if you are flying.

 

[Say Again Over]

No, once you're inside 300' you can't go around. Only idle thrust is available. Well, until you land, then you have reverse thrust available. As a matter of fact, you can only hand fly fifi for five minutes or 10,000' which ever comes first. After that, the autopilot automatically engages.

You MS simulator guys are killing me! :laugh: If you don't know it you just start making it up, funny.

 

[n757st]

You MS simulator guys are killing me! :laugh: If you don't know it you just start making it up, funny.

Calm down there Ace, I think he was making a funny.

 

[Say Again Over]

I'm laughing.

 

[j41driver]

...a "loop-hold"...

What's a loop-hold?