For Those About to Vote/Not Vote ALPA At SkyWest...

[jayme]

Bucket system screwed reserves. Period. As far as I know, we didn't get a dam thing in return.

I'm not debating the merits of PBS. The point is that management wanted it. We didn't ask for it. So when the company asked for it, did SAPA determine how it would benefit the company and negotiate a portion of the cost savings to be shared with the pilots?

 

[DX Rick]

Bucket system screwed reserves.

Explain what the "Bucket System" is. Thanks.

 

[120% Torque]

Explain what the "Bucket System" is. Thanks.

CFIT is getting the PBS confused with the bucket system. To start read this:

Issue: Proficiency flying “It is the unanimous consensus of the SAPA group that the company is practicing call-out methods that are not in accordance with the Crewmember Policy Manual. At the next Flight Ops. Meeting we will address reserve “proficiency” flying” and at the next meeting: Reserves being called out of seniority for “proficiency” reasons: General consensus was that this is in violation of the Crewmember Policy Manual. This topic to be discussed at the next Flight Ops. meeting….

Outcome: “Flight Ops management has agreed to cease the practice of assigning reserve trips upon any bases other than those defined in the Crewmember Policy manual. For those of you who might be confused, “The Bucket System” we have now IS proficiency flying, only with a different name. Sapa on the one hand unanimously agreed that proficiency flying is a violation of the so called policy manual yet later would go on to co-write this same basic protocol renaming it “the bucket system”. Its objective is to limit all reservists to below 75 hours. This could also be interpreted as a work rule change that decreases senior reservist ability to control their quality of life and a pay cut for those who historically tried to maximize their pay on reserve. There has been no direct benefit to the pilots for having this forced upon them. Not even a long call reserve that was originally touted by the Sapa Communications director as a possible gimme for allowing management this huge concession.”

Basically, prior to the bucket system a pilot with a bit of seniority could bid reserve, be the senior reservist and fly very little for the month. The upside was that if say he wanted to spend more time with his family or he had a major project like putting up a fence in his back yard he would have alot of hours at home, only really getting called as the emergency backup reserve when all other reserves were used. The down side was that he might make a few less dollars, banking only guarentee at 70 hours. At Skywest you could ask for "call last" and this was a very nice tool a pilot had at his disposal to give him flexibability in his everyday living situation.

On the flip side of this there were the guys looking to make extra money that were on reserve, not by choice. They would have their status listed as "call first" and were always called prior to the senior "call last" guy previously mentioned that was looking for more time off. It worked really well.

Enter Sapa. What was termed the "bucket system" was written and offered by sapa as a cost savings measure to the company. It was orignally sold as a temporary policy with no need to worry because it was only an experiment. Then it became perminent. All this with ZERO input from the line pilots. The guys such as CFIT who already got their days off and had a nice paycheck could care less. David Cain, the then comminications chair said sapa would try to get a long call reserve rule for givng management the bucket system. This didnt happen either. Ultimately, a wonderful tool that had been around for many years went away at the hand of Sapa, the group that was supposed to be representing the pilots. If you go back and look at the history of Sapa you will see this type of give and get nothing in return "bargaining" if you want to call it that is very typical.

More specifically the bucket system is a system used by scheduling to make all reserves fly out of seniority order and level the flying/payout. If a four day trip comes up and there is a jr reservist that has three days available to fly and a senior reservist with four days available, the senior guy get the trip regardless. Prior to the bucket system the jr guy would get the three days of flying followed by the next most jr guy avail for the last day. I understand the company likes to make as much money as possible and be as efficient as possible. Skywest was not going bankrupt however, making lots of money. The people within Sapa such as Tony Fizer who went on to become a chief pilot were all too ready to sign away whatever it took to prove THEIR loyalty to the company, at the expense, once again, of the average line pilot. It was totally unneccessary to give this work rule away with nothing in return.

 

[120% Torque]

On the subject of PBS, it has mostly been a windfall for the company. It allowed them to further reduce reserve staffing as they didnt need to have extra reserves at the end and beginning of the month when schedules ran together and trips needed to be covered. They sold it to the pilots as a good thing because lineholders could not be assigned as pseudo reserves during these "transition days" giving the pilot more protection to fly only what he bid. Enter PBS and the mysterious "CN" and "FN" "computer assigned" flying that the "company has no control over".....its all the computers fault. At least thats what some slightly nieve people thought until senior management basically admitted they could just CN extra flying on pilots schedules or allow pilots to pick it up at time and a half given the choice (this is when the company was really getting in a bind and the extreme CNing was going to be even more obvious). A clear indication of more deception from the top. But hey, the Sapa brotherhood are all friends with these guys so its all good right.

Certainly a sapa guy isnt going to say something to piss off his management mentors....his "sponsor" as it were to be a check airman or chief pilot some day. And now (with the above exception) pilots at skywest basically endure an all month transition where even the most senior pilot will find a "CN" trip on his schedule that he never bid for, a trip that would have been paid at time and half the old way by picking it up, but now the "Computer" did it and it becomes a normal part of this pilots schedule. Funny thing is these type of things happen on a weekly and sometimes daily basis now at skywest and all you will see from the Sapa guys is the feicies they serve up from their pedistal such as..... ALPA SUCKS! Alpa is evil, alpa cannot negotiate anything, alpa will be the death of us all. I might argue that sapa has already filled all these positions, at least until a majority of the pilots of skywest wise up and decide to start taking control of their career and thier future.

 

[CFIT]

Bucket system screwed reserves. Period. As far as I know, we didn't get a dam thing in return.

I'm not debating the merits of PBS. The point is that management wanted it. We didn't ask for it. So when the company asked for it, did SAPA determine how it would benefit the company and negotiate a portion of the cost savings to be shared with the pilots?

I do not have alot of background about the bucket system but there are reps that do.


As for PBS, the pilot group did actually initiate the move. I know all of you wont believe this, but the PBS program was started for pilot QOL. Get a running start for the dog pile, but that is the where it got iit's start. What some of oyu don't realize is that there pilots that spend tons of their own time to enhance the PBS system.

 

[yellowfever]

I do not have alot of background about the bucket system but there are reps that do.


As for PBS, the pilot group did actually initiate the move. I know all of you wont believe this, but the PBS program was started for pilot QOL. Get a running start for the dog pile, but that is the where it got iit's start. What some of oyu don't realize is that there pilots that spend tons of their own time to enhance the PBS system.

Why didn't SAPA let the pilot group vote on PBS? PBS was implemented by management to save money...but what do you care...it doesn't effect your life. They found a cheap vendor with no experience and implemented it before it was ready. The survey was conducted right when it started. How well was the airline staffed? How many bases were using PBS and for how long? Why do other pilot groups use the implementation of PBS as a negotiating tool?

As for the bucket system. I have a tremendous amount of experience with it. Again...what do you care? They violate the call out process on a regular basis.

I'm sure BH thought you were a fine SAPA rep. though...because you sell it so well without having actually used it.

 

[Morning Wood]

I personally think Don was fired wrongfully by an overzealous chief pilot. I have a copy of his lawyers post trial brief. If you are interested in reading it, pm me your email address. Don has told me that he has spent over $100,000 dollars defending himself so far.

You didn't answer my question. Was it wrongful termination because he didn't do it or because what he was accused of was no big deal in your eyes? Or is he simply being used as the poster boy this drive because of who fired him and not why?

 

[rtmcfi]

You didn't answer my question. Was it wrongful termination because he didn't do it or because what he was accused of was no big deal in your eyes? Or is he simply being used as the poster boy this drive because of who fired him and not why?

So you have read the court documents?

 

[jayme]

I do not have alot of background about the bucket system but there are reps that do.

I've got plenty of "background" on the bucket system. Trust me, it takes money and QOL from reserves and puts it directly on the bottom line of SkyWest's balance sheet.


As for PBS, the pilot group did actually initiate the move. I know all of you wont believe this, but the PBS program was started for pilot QOL. Get a running start for the dog pile, but that is the where it got iit's start. What some of oyu don't realize is that there pilots that spend tons of their own time to enhance the PBS system.

Again, I am not debating the merits of PBS. And I have no idea what "pilot group" wanted PBS, but I sure wasn't polled on it before it was implemented. When it was implemented, most pilots I knew didn't even know what PBS stood for.

I realize lots of time is spent by SAPA trying to make our lives better. What you don't seem to realize is that I/we are criticizing the institution, not the reps (well, some people don't seem to like you too much, but that's the exception. )

You were my sim instructor. I thought you did a great job, and I really enjoyed working with you. But you seem to be so ideologically against a union, that your posts on here come off as rude and antagonistic. I think you will find that if the vote passes, the sky will not fall, SkyWest will continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars, and the slide from "industry leading" to "middle of the pack" compensation and QOL will stop.

Peace

 

[thebest]

Crap crap crap!
What can alpo do...just look at United Delta comair asa etc....
Proof is in da puddin' Boyz!


Go alpa?

 

[thebest]

DON'T TRUST alpa!

 

[thebest]

I've been in this business 11 years. This is my second Contract at ASA. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt NOTHING will be given to you. You have to FIGHT for it. Sitting on the fence and not making a decision is still a choice. Good luck to you. I hope you're given the work rules that I fought and fight for. I doubt it, however. ALPA will give you a legally binding agreement. That's reason enough. Good luck.

Trojan

ANd when do you get this "legally binding agreement?" Go alpa?

 

[120% Torque]

Crap crap crap!
What can alpo do...just look at United Delta comair asa etc....
Proof is in da puddin' Boyz!


Go alpa?

OK son, take the ipod and backpack off for a second and try really reading the first few pages of this thread. The proof IS in the pudding as you say. Regarding United, Delta, their companies got hammered when terrorists ran jets into tall buildings in New York City. Comair got hammered because they were connected at the hip to Delta. Prior to what we are calling 911 (the day those jets ran into those buildings) the three companies you mentioned were the highest paid in the industry bar none. "Alpo" fought for the pilots and was very successful. After 911 they were never in a position to bargain as bankruptcy judges were calling the shots. It should be noted that 911 was the best thing financially that has ever happened to regional airlines....more planes, more revenue and more profits for many such as skywest and asa. Alpa just got asa a decent contract.

Skywest has made more money than many of the other regionals put together after 911. They are not going broke....making nearly 160,000,000.00 net profit last year alone. During this post 911 period when Sapa should have been able to negotiate an industry leading contract they rolled over or were ignored. Spend a little time learning the facts son and it will help you and maybe that family you get some day. OK you can put your ipod back on.

 

[BigMeat]

Crap crap crap!
What can alpo do...just look at United Delta comair asa etc....
Proof is in da puddin' Boyz!


Go alpa?

Yes GO ALPA!

Its a*sfaces like yourself that does not realize that the payscales that you have now are based on other union negotiated wages. Being at Delta, United etc. is way better then being at Skywest over a 20-30 career. You must think its okay for your fellow union pilots to bust their collective butts to bring up the averages so that you can eventually have something handed to you like a begging dog. Good for ASA they are better than you. If you hate unions so much then enjoy your life at Skywest, you cant go anywhere else that does not have one. So keep being part of the problem instead of the solution. Oh yeah one day when you bust an altitude and cause a near midair have fun trying to keep your job. Freakin Beggers!

 

[jayme]

Crap crap crap!
What can alpo do...just look at United Delta comair asa etc....
Proof is in da puddin' Boyz!


Go alpa?

You're back! I've missed your insightful observations.

So how do you think United, Delta and Comair would have faired after 9-11 with SAPA representing them?

 

[Nightrain_080]

I don't know how many years you spent with the old system, but even if you were very senior if you wanted weekends off and a subsequent wednesday you were kinda screwed if there were insufficient reserves.

PBS still doesn't approve time off. Nothing has changed for the bottom half. It was created to do this like you have said but it is not working. In essence whether Sapa or management wants to take the blame, we were lied to again. Lets see Sapa and management correct this......NOT>
Meanwhile I would rather take my chances with ALPA. At least I know in 5 years it may possibly get fixed. With sapa who the f^c* knows?

Save us money and you won't regret it. I do not enjoy my BHO in the 700/900. I make more money sleeping in than flying BHO trips.

How does that effect you?

What has Sapa done about it?


I personally love to be gone from home 80 plus hours on a 16 credit hour four day. Life is great.

Keep up the 10 day off minimum with PBS. Or 9 if your an FO. How do you feel about that?


THE OLD ********************tiessst dirtiest azz HARDLINES were better than any dog licking trash that PBS can spew out ever. I would love to have any hardline back. At least if I could get weekends off and I know that I still can't get wednesdays off to go bowling, who the f#^k cares.

Sincerely the bottom 1/2 of the pilot group.

 

[thebest]

OK son, take the ipod and backpack off for a second and try really reading the first few pages of this thread. The proof IS in the pudding as you say. Regarding United, Delta, their companies got hammered when terrorists ran jets into tall buildings in New York City. Comair got hammered because they were connected at the hip to Delta. Prior to what we are calling 911 (the day those jets ran into those buildings) the three companies you mentioned were the highest paid in the industry bar none. "Alpo" fought for the pilots and was very successful. After 911 they were never in a position to bargain as bankruptcy judges were calling the shots. It should be noted that 911 was the best thing financially that has ever happened to regional airlines....more planes, more revenue and more profits for many such as skywest and asa. Alpa just got asa a decent contract.

Skywest has made more money than many of the other regionals put together after 911. They are not going broke....making nearly 160,000,000.00 net profit last year alone. During this post 911 period when Sapa should have been able to negotiate an industry leading contract they rolled over or were ignored. Spend a little time learning the facts son and it will help you and maybe that family you get some day. OK you can put your ipod back on.

Making contracts when things are good is not when alpo should be judged. It is when things are bad! alpo gets an F!!! Did skyw take a pay cut...EVER!
GO alpo?

 

[thebest]

What Building did Delta hit?

 

[120% Torque]

What Building did Delta hit?

Who said Delta ran into a building? Your reading comprehension problems mixed with your other learning abilities have really made it difficult for you haven't they?

Since you cant really remember much about 911 and you are not so good at reading, I want you to watch this clip from start to finish. It will be your first clue that something horrible happened that affected millions of people in many ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4s3fn8jDc

 

[yellowfever]

You didn't answer my question. Was it wrongful termination because he didn't do it or because what he was accused of was no big deal in your eyes? Or is he simply being used as the poster boy this drive because of who fired him and not why?

I don't think he did it, but either way...I think it was wrong. Like I said...I will send you his lawyers brief if you PM me your email address. I'm not using Don as a poster boy....Just some guy that got screwed. SAPA really helped him out! The guy who fired Don was a SAPA VP.