CAL scope

[Blue Moon]

From a recent internal memo at RAH...

What is our plan with the CRJs? Will we have them on a long-term basis? Can you confirm we’ll only have them for two years? Will we grow our relationship with CO? Were the CRJs parked in the desert before we took them?

It is not our intention to operate the CRJs on a long-term basis. Unlike our usual approach, we did not buy the CRJs, we leased all 24.

We would have preferred to operate our CO fleet exclusively with the ERJ 145, but not enough were available as we began our relationship with CO, which required 50-seat jets.

We believe CO will obtain scope relief by sometime in 2008 – we hope to be able to substitute larger RJs for the CRJs at that point.

Something to remember in your contract negotiations...the scavengers are already licking their chops in anticipation of you easing scope so they can take your flying.

 

[LJDRVR]

From a recent internal memo at RAH...

Something to remember in your contract negotiations...the scavengers are already licking their chops in anticipation of you easing scope so they can take your flying.

Yeah, we know. No SCOPE relief. Period. Not one seat.

CAL can lease or puchase as many 170/190's as they like, but it will be with Continental pilots flying them

 

[tie1on]

to the rah so called professionals. don't count on flying anything larger than 50 seats. there is a scope clause that will become more restrictive. the cal pilots are not willing to assist in you lowering your career expectations. no one should have to work for 20 an hour flying a multi million dollar jet

 

[Jonny Sacko]

I think that's what the person pasting it on here, was saying.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

to the rah so called professionals. don't count on flying anything larger than 50 seats. there is a scope clause that will become more restrictive. the cal pilots are not willing to assist in you lowering your career expectations. no one should have to work for 20 an hour flying a multi million dollar jet

But 29hr is ok?

 

[LJDRVR]

No, it isn't. But we're fixing that very soon with contract 08".

What the poster was probably getting at was the regionals should be stepping stones, where pilots flew BE99's Saab's and Metroliners to build experience for a legacy carrier. Short-sighted pilots in the early nineties allowed the RJ's on property. Hopefully we have learned from their mistakes.

 

[Captain Overs]

Yeah, we know. No SCOPE relief. Period. Not one seat.

CAL can lease or puchase as many 170/190's as they like, but it will be with Continental pilots flying them

I can't wait to see those rates!

 

[LJDRVR]

I can't wait to see those rates!

Sure thing:

www.airlinepilotcentral.com

Small narrow body, the same pay rates we had for the DC-9's. Say, haven't you got some retiree sort of activity to do, like shuffleboard or applying hemorroid medication or pontificating like a know-it-all on some internet bulletin board.....oh wait; nevermind.

 

[Jetjockey]

"We believe CO will obtain scope relief by sometime in 2008 – we hope to be able to substitute larger RJs for the CRJs at that point."

Mr. Bedford also believes that people shouldn't have sex before marriage. I wouldn't believe everything the 'preacher' sells to the congregation.

 

[d.fitz]

How about a source for that post? That is TOTAL BS that this is an internal memo. It's flamebait...

No one that I know wants to operate larger airplanes for CO (although management would like it). So, the real question is, are you guys going to cave collectively? Show us the way. We would all rather be on a majors' seniority list...

 

[BigMeat]

But 29hr is ok?

You can fix the 29hr pay, but you cant get your flying back. Any scope relief and I am voting a big fat NO!

 

[pkober]

But 29hr is ok?

WTFO !!! It's 30/hr now.

It will get fixed in 08. We now have too many pilots working here who have worked under better contract at other carriers. We will make sure we get a better contract.

No scope relief..

 

[thor2j]

It's always funny that CAL gets all the shi_ for its first year pay yet AA, UAL, US Air, NWA, UPS, and more are all less then $35/ hr first year. What gives???

 

[ClubORD]

It's just something to talk about here. Although the lack of insurance for new hires for the first six months is total BS. However, there are many options to choose from that are not expensive to cover you during this time.

Many of the complaints people have about this place are going to be fixed come next year with the new contract. I made the jump to CAL looking long term and I have no regrets

 

[geshields]

It's always funny that CAL gets all the shi_ for its first year pay yet AA, UAL, US Air, NWA, UPS, and more are all less then $35/ hr first year. What gives???

Just thought I would present facts...1st year pay at other airlines from airlinepilotcentral.com

AA $35
CAL $31
DAL $49
NWA $30
UAL $32
USAIR $25-$41
AIRTRAN $43
ALASKA $35
JBLU $47
SWA $52

 

[nimtz]

How about a source for that post? That is TOTAL BS that this is an internal memo. It's flamebait...

No one that I know wants to operate larger airplanes for CO (although management would like it). So, the real question is, are you guys going to cave collectively? Show us the way. We would all rather be on a majors' seniority list...

Our pilot group has told LK that scope is non-negotiable many times. I don't expect that to change easily so Bedford can go to hell for all I care. I certainly hope you guys are willing to fight for significant raises next time the contract comes up.

 

[Palomino]

Our pilot group has told LK that scope is non-negotiable many times. I don't expect that to change easily so Bedford can go to hell for all I care. I certainly hope you guys are willing to fight for significant raises next time the contract comes up.

the Cliff Notes version in red sums it up for me

 

[Deerkiller]

Since our scope policy is the only thing that is strong in our contract, no one is willing to give it up. It'll never happen. Scope is something this pilot group has stood very strong and united on.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Give up scope no way. Everything in our contract needs to be enhanced including SCOPE. Our scope section was written by the scope pope Mike Abraham's from ALPA's general counsel. He is the best of the best. He will negotiate our new scope clause. I am only interested in a FED EX type of contract not a Mesa type!

 

[CA1900]

Just thought I would present facts...1st year pay at other airlines from airlinepilotcentral.com

Don't forget NJA at $130/hr!


Of course, that's only because I'm on salary and flew 300 hours in the past year...

 

[d.fitz]

I certainly hope you guys are willing to fight for significant raises next time the contract comes up.

Right back atcha...

 

[TAWS]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

 

[ToThePain]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Just to correct a few of your statements:
1. I have never had issues getting water (large bottles) on the 737 or on the 777 (getting a blocker for the bathroom is another issue) so don’t believe everything you read on FI. There was a memo CLARIFYING the captains authority that was slightly different than what some of the FA's believed.
2. There is alternate health coverage that the company helps you out with in getting during training. [yes this sucks, we should all get it as soon as we get hired, but I look at what some of the other commercial airlines current health insurance(except SWA, theirs is very good) and I am not impressed]. I'm hoping that the health coverage does change and that it is offered to new hires with the next contract.
3. While it is true that new hires are not offered the Plan A retirement package, what company does still offer it? The plan B is now at 12 3/4% and will go up in the next contract.
4. Scope in NOT NEGOTIABLE.

 

[catIIIc]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Wow you sure know alot about an airline you don't even work for. I have never had a problem getting water on a flight, I get 12.75% of my salary into a fund that I control for my retirement(how much does Bedford give you), and yeah the insurance thing sucks, but after 6 months I get 100% BCBS PPO for 160/month for my soon to be family of 4. But the end all thing is our Scope will have a tough time changing, and I doubt you are in any negotiations seeing as we are at least 1.5-2yrs until a TA to even have a chance of you guys flying 170's for us.

I love how you guys just salivate over taking jobs away from other pilots, you do know that you are flying that airplane in the leftseat what I fly mine for in the right? We both should be making more in our respective seats but we can't because I have to deal with LCC's and large RJ operators doing the same job for less and you guys can't go higher because if you do someone else will come in and do it for cheaper during the next RFP. I don't know the answer to stop this slide but giving up our Scope will not help.

 

[Blue Moon]

How about a source for that post? That is TOTAL BS that this is an internal memo. It's flamebait...

No one that I know wants to operate larger airplanes for CO (although management would like it). So, the real question is, are you guys going to cave collectively? Show us the way. We would all rather be on a majors' seniority list...

Everybody's a skeptic...


[edited]

 

[Auburn_CFI]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Typical RAH pilot. Instead of talking about what they can do to improve their own QOL they brag about how much money their CEO makes. This is the how they measure their airline. Typical...

 

[TAWS]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. Just to clarify the position of the majority of the RAH pilots: we don't want scope to fall (atleast that's the impression that I get), as it means that we would be stuck here longer (in theory). If you guys get pay raises and get 170/190s on property, which YOU will fly, that's great. If you get pay raises/better health coverage for newhires, that's great also.
But lets's be clear about something, if you do allow bigger/more RJs, someone WILL fly them - we would be morons not to want them on property here!
As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

 

[catIIIc]

I like the fact that you guys are going to be flying 100 seat jets in 09 , wow I wonder which airline that will be for?

 

[Auburn_CFI]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. Just to clarify the position of the majority of the RAH pilots: we don't want scope to fall (atleast that's the impression that I get), as it means that we would be stuck here longer (in theory). If you guys get pay raises and get 170/190s on property, which YOU will fly, that's great. If you get pay raises/better health coverage for newhires, that's great also.
But lets's be clear about something, if you do allow bigger/more RJs, someone WILL fly them - we would be morons not to want them on property here!
As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

You sir, are an idiot.

 

[imadumbpilot]

you do know that you are flying that airplane in the leftseat what I fly mine for in the right?

Speak for your self, a 19 year E190 captain makes less than I make (year 6 pay FO756). Although, he does make more than I make to Dead head in first class across the atlantic. So, If you go to their 16 year scale, then I make more than them while I am sleeping.

How many 16 to 19 year captains does CHQ have?

I agree though, we all need to make more.