CAL scope

[d.fitz]

I certainly hope you guys are willing to fight for significant raises next time the contract comes up.

Right back atcha...

 

[TAWS]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

 

[ToThePain]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Just to correct a few of your statements:
1. I have never had issues getting water (large bottles) on the 737 or on the 777 (getting a blocker for the bathroom is another issue) so don’t believe everything you read on FI. There was a memo CLARIFYING the captains authority that was slightly different than what some of the FA's believed.
2. There is alternate health coverage that the company helps you out with in getting during training. [yes this sucks, we should all get it as soon as we get hired, but I look at what some of the other commercial airlines current health insurance(except SWA, theirs is very good) and I am not impressed]. I'm hoping that the health coverage does change and that it is offered to new hires with the next contract.
3. While it is true that new hires are not offered the Plan A retirement package, what company does still offer it? The plan B is now at 12 3/4% and will go up in the next contract.
4. Scope in NOT NEGOTIABLE.

 

[catIIIc]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Wow you sure know alot about an airline you don't even work for. I have never had a problem getting water on a flight, I get 12.75% of my salary into a fund that I control for my retirement(how much does Bedford give you), and yeah the insurance thing sucks, but after 6 months I get 100% BCBS PPO for 160/month for my soon to be family of 4. But the end all thing is our Scope will have a tough time changing, and I doubt you are in any negotiations seeing as we are at least 1.5-2yrs until a TA to even have a chance of you guys flying 170's for us.

I love how you guys just salivate over taking jobs away from other pilots, you do know that you are flying that airplane in the leftseat what I fly mine for in the right? We both should be making more in our respective seats but we can't because I have to deal with LCC's and large RJ operators doing the same job for less and you guys can't go higher because if you do someone else will come in and do it for cheaper during the next RFP. I don't know the answer to stop this slide but giving up our Scope will not help.

 

[Blue Moon]

How about a source for that post? That is TOTAL BS that this is an internal memo. It's flamebait...

No one that I know wants to operate larger airplanes for CO (although management would like it). So, the real question is, are you guys going to cave collectively? Show us the way. We would all rather be on a majors' seniority list...

Everybody's a skeptic...


[edited]

 

[Auburn_CFI]

I'm not part of the Bedford fan club, but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings - second only to the Chairman of Emirates. He does ALOT of talking and nobody knows if it's just hot air or not, but you can't argue with his success!
Another thread talked about you guys having limited access to water (of all things), when you fly. The lack of health coverage for newhires and the fact that there is no pension for newhires, while the senior enjoy theirs, does not speak highly of your group (any way you look at it). Scope is all you have. While I would like to see you retain it, as that would mean career aspirations realized for many RJ pilots, your history says otherwise - beat your chests all you want!

Bedford isn't stupid. The upcoming negotiations have already been mapped out in the minds of your mngt and Bedford obviously has an inkling in what lies ahead (hopefully not).

Good luck.

Typical RAH pilot. Instead of talking about what they can do to improve their own QOL they brag about how much money their CEO makes. This is the how they measure their airline. Typical...

 

[TAWS]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. Just to clarify the position of the majority of the RAH pilots: we don't want scope to fall (atleast that's the impression that I get), as it means that we would be stuck here longer (in theory). If you guys get pay raises and get 170/190s on property, which YOU will fly, that's great. If you get pay raises/better health coverage for newhires, that's great also.
But lets's be clear about something, if you do allow bigger/more RJs, someone WILL fly them - we would be morons not to want them on property here!
As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

 

[catIIIc]

I like the fact that you guys are going to be flying 100 seat jets in 09 , wow I wonder which airline that will be for?

 

[Auburn_CFI]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. Just to clarify the position of the majority of the RAH pilots: we don't want scope to fall (atleast that's the impression that I get), as it means that we would be stuck here longer (in theory). If you guys get pay raises and get 170/190s on property, which YOU will fly, that's great. If you get pay raises/better health coverage for newhires, that's great also.
But lets's be clear about something, if you do allow bigger/more RJs, someone WILL fly them - we would be morons not to want them on property here!
As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

You sir, are an idiot.

 

[imadumbpilot]

you do know that you are flying that airplane in the leftseat what I fly mine for in the right?

Speak for your self, a 19 year E190 captain makes less than I make (year 6 pay FO756). Although, he does make more than I make to Dead head in first class across the atlantic. So, If you go to their 16 year scale, then I make more than them while I am sleeping.

How many 16 to 19 year captains does CHQ have?

I agree though, we all need to make more.

 

[TAWS]

Typical RAH pilot. Instead of talking about what they can do to improve their own QOL they brag about how much money their CEO makes. This is the how they measure their airline. Typical...

Maybe you should learn to read, then reread my post - it was a statement of facts re. Bedford, not a round of applause for him. You and I can argue all day long on FI, but it doesn't change the FACT that Bedford isn't an idiot, he knows his sh!t and he's successful. We, at RAH, know that we are up against a formidable businessman, however we also know that we have a long way to go, to get paid what we deserve.

Comprehension also goes along with reading.

 

[TAWS]

Hey Auburn CFI,

keep drinking the XJT koolaid - you guys are hilarious! I don't drink the RAH brand, however I think after more than one airline I can tell you that if you don't fly it, someone else will. How many airlines have you flown for?

 

[Mike man]

Short-sighted pilots in the early nineties allowed the RJ's on property. Hopefully we have learned from their mistakes.

Quite the opposite...they didn't let the RJ's on property. I guess it must have been PRIDE, after the big airlines hung up the turboprops in the late 80's they wanted nothing to do with the small jets...oh well.

 

[Mike man]

...but you have to hand it to the man- when he came to CHQ, it was a tiny SAAB operation - now look at it! Last year he was the 2nd highest paid airline CEO in the world, in terms of total earnings...

Let some Mesaba people chime in on how he grew their airline.

Who cares how much he makes...but isn't his salary relativity low but with all his stealin...I mean stock options he makes lots more...and what does this have anything to do with scope?

 

[catIIIc]

Thanks for the clarifications guys. Just to clarify the position of the majority of the RAH pilots: we don't want scope to fall (atleast that's the impression that I get), as it means that we would be stuck here longer (in theory). If you guys get pay raises and get 170/190s on property, which YOU will fly, that's great. If you get pay raises/better health coverage for newhires, that's great also.
But lets's be clear about something, if you do allow bigger/more RJs, someone WILL fly them - we would be morons not to want them on property here!
As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

Well all this happened before I got here but I will give it a shot.
83-85 SCABS crossed the picket line to subpar wages to work for Lorenzo.

87-94 numerous CEO's who only wanted to make themselves rich and two CH 11's which did not help their contacts at the time.

95-01 finally Gordon and Greg turn this airline around and in 97 they finally get some improvements to their contract. in 2000 UAL and DAL get there great contracts and then 9-11.

02-Present the threat of CH 11 and a corupt union leadership sell this POS contract we are know under which is even pissing off the SCABS.

We are a different pilot group with differnet union leadership, we will get a great contract.

 

[TAWS]

CatIIIc,

Thanks for best post on this thread yet. This is what I had heard but in true FI style, nobody reads the posts, they only shoot from the hip. Obviously you read my question and gave an informed answer.

 

[Hutchman]

[/b]

Well all this happened before I got here but I will give it a shot.
83-85 SCABS crossed the picket line to subpar wages to work for Lorenzo.

87-94 numerous CEO's who only wanted to make themselves rich and two CH 11's which did not help their contacts at the time.

95-01 finally Gordon and Greg turn this airline around and in 97 they finally get some improvements to their contract. in 2000 UAL and DAL get there great contracts and then 9-11.

02-Present the threat of CH 11 and a corupt union leadership sell this POS contract we are know under which is even pissing off the SCABS.

We are a different pilot group with differnet union leadership, we will get a great contract.

1. Starting pay adjusted for inflation is less now than under Lorenzo.

2. I agree

3. Contract 97 came at a price of 275 RJ's with no limit. At the time this was the worst scope. Now it is the best by default.

4. Some people think it is a good contract. These are the same people that like PBS. I think there are 8 people. However, year 1-4 guys beg to differ.

The way I look at it is the contract can't get any worse. There are bound to be huge improvements for Contract 08.

 

[AWACoff]

As for the growing at the expense of other pilot groups, the same can be said of any pilot group - especially yours! UAL, USAIR, DAL and NWA were forced to give concessions thru the BK courts .... were you? Clarify for all of us what happened, as I would like to know what happened to bring you to where you are now.

Unless reading comprehension owns me... the CAL pilot group took a concessionary contract to avoid BK court. At the time, the union thought they would get a better deal outside of BK court. It appears that they were right. Look at the work rules United has right now. I don't see what you are talking about when you refer to CAL growing at the expense of other groups. We have been growing because we could, not because we backstabbed other groups.

 

[lookin4better]

From a recent internal memo at RAH...

Something to remember in your contract negotiations...the scavengers are already licking their chops in anticipation of you easing scope so they can take your flying.

Back on track, this is a real threat, there are MANY MANY pilots at RAH that would jump for joy ,take pay cuts or do whatever it took to fly bigger planes and upgrade, with LITTLE thought of the TRUE cost. I dont work at CAL but it looks like they are holding strong on this.

All the younger pilots at the regional I worked for were SALIVATING for the 190, having no idea that would prevent them from a faster way to a mainline job......this is by far the norm.

There is no intent to do wrong, they just dont fully understand how things work.

 

[Blue Moon]

Bumping this thread with a recent post from the RAH pilot board...

You know, I absolutely love it when people make comments like, "I'm not going to fly that aircraft because its a mainline aircraft and we are screwing the industry."

Let's look at this from a business standpoint. I could definitely see CAL mgmt wanting to get into the 70-seat jet market. They are the only airline that does not utilize 70-seat jets (turboprops, yes). They gave up scope for turboprops. To stay competitive, I have to believe that will need to expand their operation to tap this market.

So, the pilots won't give up scope. Come on. Management will offer other incentives to get them to agree to it.

You are extremely naive if you honestly won't fly a 70-seat jet because you think it belongs at mainline. I applaud you for sticking to your beliefs. However, if someone is going to fly them, I would rather it be us simply for my job security at this company. If we don't take it, someone else will.

My thought is that we probably already have an agreement with Continental for this exact scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a CAL 170 already painted in hiding somewhere right now. It (the agreement) was probably in place a long time ago (why would we take a short lease on CRJ's?). The writing is all over the wall - just look at it.

DON'T SELL YOUR SCOPE!