2300 signatures and counting!

[luckytohaveajob]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...78817.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[Green]

2300 whiners with zero integrity. You should all be proud...

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Yeah, ok.... I'm having a little trouble believing 2300.
Reporter: "So, you're trying to decertify ALPA?"
USAPA Prez Guy: "Yeah, we're collecting cards. It gonna be really neato."
Reporter: "Really, how many do you have?"
USAPA Prez Guy: (rubs neck, scratches head considers what number will be useful to his cause) "We've got, approximately, 2300."

I'll wait for the count by the NMB, and the eventual Federal Judge. Oh, and if it fails the eventual whining by USAPA about tampering and obstructionist tactics by the company, ALPA and General Lee.

USAir East, you guys are a new kind of lame... I will now call you multifaceted lamosus that's right: "MFL's."

 

[PCL_128]

Congratulations! You've got 2300 short-sighted morons who don't even realize that dumping ALPA will still not invalidate the arbitrator's ruling. You should be very proud.

 

[FlyByNight1]

WOW! I dont work over there, and Im pretty new to the game, but it sure seems like US Airways is always the ginny pig when comes to these things. I feel bad for you folks caught up in this stuff.

 

[LJDRVR]

2300 whiners with zero integrity. You should all be proud...

How's about when you have spent over two decades working for an ALPA carrier, only to see your retirement stolen and no chance of ever upgrading to the left seat, while youngsters who were in kindergarten when your career started, hired scant years ago by some regional airline that happens to fly Boeing and Airbus products, are now senior to you; then you can go around calling people names.

Whiners? Are you for real?

 

[LJDRVR]

Congratulations! You've got 2300 short-sighted morons who don't even realize that dumping ALPA will still not invalidate the arbitrator's ruling. You should be very proud.

I suspect you would feel a little less smug and clever were you wearing their shoes. Sit down with an Airways East guy or gal sometime and ask them about their career. You'll be singing a different tune.

PS-Are you one of those guys who goes around calling his fellow pilots short-sighted morons but also complains vehemetly at the slightest suggestion of Legacy pilot snobery directed towards Air Tran? respect

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

So "Career expectations" or "Date of Hire"? I have no idea. I think people are gonna get screwed either way.

 

[PCL_128]

I suspect you would feel a little less smug and clever were you wearing their shoes. Sit down with an Airways East guy or gal sometime and ask them about their career. You'll be singing a different tune.

I sat down and talked with dozens of Airways pilots in LGA when I was working on the Colgan drive for ALPA National. I sympathize with you guys, and I do think you got screwed on the arbitration award, but that doesn't justify the actions that some are taking with the decert drive. It will do no good to nullify the award, but it will do much harm to the Association, the profession, and even your own pilot group.

PS-Are you one of those guys who goes around calling his fellow pilots short-sighted morons but also complains vehemetly at the slightest suggestion of Legacy pilot snobery directed towards Air Tran? respect

Not exactly sure what you're getting at or how that applies to the current discussion. To answer your question, though, I understand when Legacy pilots complain about how the LCCs have dragged down the profession in the past. I hope that all of us at AirTran will vote down our current TA and raise the bar in the future.

 

[PositiveRate]

This will be another 5 page thread of the same fight.

LJDVR and the likes will never accept the age and los differentials in the nicolau list.

They conveniently ignore that 18 yrs = bottom of list in the pre merger world, while 18 yrs at AWA = senior captain. This IS the way it was and is the basis for EXPECTATIONS. Now things are trending up, they are trying to re-write this reality.

It is what it is (Nic still stands with either union) and it was what is was (pre-merger realities) - The new reality is more fighting and bs rhetoric from all involved...we are not on a path to solutions at the moment.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

How's about when you have spent over two decades working for an ALPA carrier, only to see your retirement stolen and no chance of ever upgrading to the left seat, while youngsters who were in kindergarten when your career started, hired scant years ago by some regional airline that happens to fly Boeing and Airbus products, are now senior to you; then you can go around calling people names.

Whiners? Are you for real?

Well, maybe because WE BOUGHT YOU. Yeah, right after the time AWA covered your payroll but just before you were going to LIQUIDATE.

Oh and by the way, YOUR OWN MEC and JNC gave all that stuff back to management DURING YOUR TWO TRIPS INTO BANKRUPTCY. Of course your stellar airline was profitable... oh, not since '98, sorry. It only became profiatable after the merger, my bad.

ALPA IS NOT THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEMS. YOUR MEC IS THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEMS. They lie to you, they keep things from you.

If the award was so unfair, why did both pilot neutrals go along with it? Have you seen Nicolau's qualifications? I think he's got a better handle on things than USAPA or the East MEC.

As the Airbus says: "retard... retard... retard...."

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Positive rate hit the nail on the head. Your 18 year guy was bottom of the list at Airways. So why should he be above someone who was in near the beginning of AWA. That's friggin arrogance.

Your age means you went to a major, a while back, that's true; but you picked the wrong major that is also true. Basically, you may have gotten to the dance earlier boys, but your date was a fat and ugly chick from Appalachia....

I'm sorry, like I've said before, your career didn't turn out the way you thought and neither did mine; but too bad. It's time to move on. Lets fix the airline and the contract before this next opportunity passes you by.

 

[LJDRVR]

Wow, spirited debate!

I was just taking several folks to task for their wide paint brush attack of the Airways East folks.

Where were you AWA folks earlier in this thread when people were name-calling and questioning the integrity of YOUR pilots? Oh that's right, you were joining in.

All I'm saying is that if you were in their shoes, you'd be pretty upset too. How about some empathy?

 

[PositiveRate]

You had our empathy. That's mostly gone now after how we've been treated. It goes both ways and the attempt to rewrite where both companies were is lower than low.

Another reality is AWA has walked the so-called "high road" and played by the rules. The East has done everything in their power to bend the rules to align with their agendas and take full advantage of the NEW REALITY.

It's pretty shamful. We'll see how it plays out, but the empathy is gone - sorry.

 

[LJDRVR]

You had our empathy. That's mostly gone now after how we've been treated. It goes both ways and the attempt to rewrite where both companies were is lower than low.

Another reality is AWA has walked the so-called "high road" and played by the rules. The East has done everything in their power to bend the rules to align with their agendas and take full advantage of the NEW REALITY.

It's pretty shamful. We'll see how it plays out, but the empathy is gone - sorry.

Fair enough, although my guess still is if you were in their shoes you'd be just as pissed.

PS-You're assuming I fly for US Air.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I empathized as well. I was friendly. I was hopeful we could make this thing work. Clearly, the East thinks they are right because they yell the loudest.

Are you aware because of the East obstructionist tactics the company has filed another dispute about the TA against ALPA?

Think about it. East delays are now hurting the operation enough that the company is seeking legal help. THE COMPANY WANTS TO NEGOTIATE A NEW CONTRACT. The east doesn't wany any of that becuase of the Nic award.

So now ALPA has to defend against this.

I hope all you other ALPA members have paid your dues because your pissy little bros from PHL are gonna get ALPA sued.

 

[PA-22]

How's about when you have spent over two decades working for an ALPA carrier, only to see your retirement stolen and no chance of ever upgrading to the left seat, while youngsters who were in kindergarten when your career started, hired scant years ago by some regional airline that happens to fly Boeing and Airbus products, are now senior to you; then you can go around calling people names.

Whiners? Are you for real?

So ALPA was responsible for TWO bankruptcies that led to concessions including pensions?
Stop lying to yourself, you want to decertify ALPA only, and ONLY because you think THAT might make the Nicolau BINDING (ouch) arbitration go away.
That is the definition of whiners, you just didn't get what you wanted.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

ALPA IS NOT THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEMS. YOUR MEC IS THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEMS. They lie to you, they keep things from you.

The problem is ALPA hasn't learned the lesson of overriding the will of the majority. IE. AGE 60!!!

ALPA thinks they know best regardless of the survey results, the polls, the voting, etc.

Ask any former TWA pilot.

ALPA is faithfully flawed. ALPA politicians have forgotten who they represent.

The East needs to complete the decert. project and remind ALPA and every MEC and LEC rep. what the purpose of the union is at each particular company.

ALPA has lost its way. The East is going to help ALPA find the door and regain its focus or this is going to repeat again at UAL, NWA, FedEx, etc.

 

[LJDRVR]

So ALPA was responsible for TWO bankruptcies that led to concessions including pensions?
Stop lying to yourself, you want to decertify ALPA only, and ONLY because you think THAT might make the Nicolau BINDING (ouch) arbitration go away.
That is the definition of whiners, you just didn't get what you wanted.

Show me where I suggested any such thing. I was simply pointing out that the Airways East folks have a little more room for bitching than you do, and that the caustic tone directed at them on this thread was severely one-sided and harsh.

My guess (I work elswhere, Mr. reading comprehension) is they are simply pissed at the total and complete lack of representation they have recieved from ALPA the last several years.

I'll say it again, you'd be just as pissed and involved in the same activities if you were one of them.

 

[LJDRVR]

I hope all you other ALPA members have paid your dues because your pissy little bros from PHL are gonna get ALPA sued.

That's right Grog, it's all their fault. What would you do in their shoes? Honestly. I'm fortunate to not have to worry about it, but if I were, say a 1982 hire based in PHL or CLT, I's be so pissed off I couldn't see straight. Having lost everything, my guess is I'd be willing to try anything to effect any change.

So, what would you do? Sit around and take it like a man, after a lifetime of paying dues?