Virgin America Jumpseat

[IB6 UB9]

I will not ask for a j/s on VA, nor will I accept a VA
pilot on my jumpseat (AA).

I hope you are joking. If not, please meet me out behind the woodshed.

 

[vixin]

Viking,

While I am not a fan of VA. You will be doing your fellow AA brothers a diservice, but then again you probably dont commute. You probably dont like SWA guys either, although, we carry alot of AA guys around so they can get to work. Give the seat, make nice and shut your pie hole. You are welcoms on any SWA aircraft. Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.

 

[SkyPigPilot]

I will not ask for a j/s on VA, nor will I accept a VA
pilot on my jumpseat (AA).

That is pathetic and pointless.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

And I'm not particularly fond of UAL corporation either after the buy & sell of Air Wisconsin in 1992/3, or the rejection of ACA's UAX contract in 2005.

However, I walked in front of ORD with a picket sign in 1985 in support of my brothers and turned down an interview with them then. I also have a lot of friends there now.

Even though UAL is, um, very slow to respond to our reciprocal JS offer I welcome any and all UAL pilots in my JS. Especially the ones with the gold stars on their pins.

 

[HarryShadow]

I will not ask for a j/s on VA, nor will I accept a VA
pilot on my jumpseat (AA).

Dude…you have to be joking!!! If not, my guess is that you're p!ssed and pushing 60, been doing this airline gig for years and are having trouble adjusting to the fact that folks could simply care less that you're a pilot. Missing the days where people worshiped you, huh??? Times have changed old man…get with it!!!

 

[aa73]

I will not ask for a j/s on VA, nor will I accept a VA
pilot on my jumpseat (AA).

Viking,

You go ahead and make good on that, I will find out who you are and send your "love message" straight to our j/s chairman, numb nuts. Don't even think about it.

To any pilots who found this offensive, I apologize on behalf of AA pilots.

73

 

[ualdriver]

And I'm not particularly fond of UAL corporation either after the buy & sell of Air Wisconsin in 1992/3, or the rejection of ACA's UAX contract in 2005.

And those are management decisions. What does that have to do with us pilots on this board?

Even though UAL is, um, very slow to respond to our reciprocal JS offer I welcome any and all UAL pilots in my JS. Especially the ones with the gold stars on their pins.

And I suspect it is going to be a while, too. There's much debate here as to how to handle new reciprocal jumpseat agreements with, um, non-union carriers. There are many pilots here who think that non-union carriers do not belong on ANY union jumpseat, but fortunately for you guys, they aren't politically powerful enough to enact that change.

As an aside, I really do appreciate the fact that you mached with those UAL guys in '85. When can we expect a move to unionize, with absolutely any union, at Virgin? We have our contract opening up in DEC '09 and very much hope to have industry leading rates at that time. We don't want our management pointing to wages at carriers such as yours and using that as a reason for why our narrowbody guys can expect less "in order to be competitive with a rapidly growing carrier in one of our hubs." The guys at American, Continental, and Alaska are probably also wondering about the same thing. If you guys got a vote going within a year, perhaps we can all build on your newly newly negotiated industry leading (or maybe even average) rates by DEC '09 when our contract opens?

 

[bluejuice787]

And those are management decisions. What does that have to do with us pilots on this board?




And I suspect it is going to be a while, too. There's much debate here as to how to handle new reciprocal jumpseat agreements with, um, non-union carriers. There are many pilots here who think that non-union carriers do not belong on ANY union jumpseat, but fortunately for you guys, they aren't politically powerful enough to enact that change.

As an aside, I really do appreciate the fact that you mached with those UAL guys in '85. When can we expect a move to unionize, with absolutely any union, at Virgin? We have our contract opening up in DEC '09 and very much hope to have industry leading rates at that time. We don't want our management pointing to wages at carriers such as yours and using that as a reason for why our narrowbody guys can expect less "in order to be competitive with a rapidly growing carrier in one of our hubs." The guys at American, Continental, and Alaska are probably also wondering about the same thing. If you guys got a vote going within a year, perhaps we can all build on your newly newly negotiated industry leading (or maybe even average) rates by DEC '09 when our contract opens?

How about you worry about your financial house and Virgin worries about their own. Virgin is going to take market share from UAL like a baby. At that point our new contract will make sense.

Juice

 

[Ralph Cramden]

And those are management decisions. What does that have to do with us pilots on this board?

It has nothing to do with the pilots, as I said, UAL corporation. We agree on this point.

As to the VA drivers and unions, time, the collective will and the treatment we get internally will determine that. I think we all want a zillion $$ a year and only work on Wednesdays.

It may interest you to know the UAL/ACA JS agreement was almost pulled (by UAL) over an ACA pilot refusing a "fleet qualified" UAL pilot the JS years ago. I'm just trying to bring up the point that there is a lot of politics all over the place on many issues. Trying to get to & from work should not be a part of it. Our companies all compete with each other. I don't think any good is gained by shutting the door to pilots from other companies.

I do see your point on the pay comparison your company will throw at you in 2009. I hope we will be a comparable you throw at them. Time will tell.

Oh, you're welcome on 1985. I did it then and will do it again without a moment's hesitation, regardless of my view of your company's past practices.

 

[ualdriver]

How about you worry about your financial house and Virgin worries about their own. Virgin is going to take market share from UAL like a baby. At that point our new contract will make sense.

Juice

You're right. They will steal market share. And they'll be using their pilots' wages to subsidize it. It's not too hard to undercut another airline's fares and steal market share when you have a group of pilots working for 2/3's (or less) of the going rate.

 

[ualdriver]

As to the VA drivers and unions, time, the collective will and the treatment we get internally will determine that. I think we all want a zillion $$ a year and only work on Wednesdays.

The VA pilots don't think they're being treated badly now? If they collectively think they have it good now, then the rest of us are screwed long term. Wanting a zillion dollars a year and only working on Wednesday is completely unreasonable. Paying an experienced, A320 Captain such as yourself something resembling industry standard isn't. Is Virgin's product so poor that it needs its professionals to subsidize its bottom line? Or does Virgin produce a top-notch product but just pays their professional pilots a low wage because "they treat you so well?"

Further, it sounds like the experienced Captains at your airline, such as yourself, are the ones that are going to have to bring about the change. I assume no First Officer is going to risk the loss of his "merit based" upgrade by making waves and bringing a Union on-board.

Trying to get to & from work should not be a part of it. Our companies all compete with each other. I don't think any good is gained by shutting the door to pilots from other companies.

Like I mentioned, it is part of it. Many people are starting to question whether or not non-union pilots belong on a union jumpseat. I'm sure our jumpseat co-ordinator is getting an earful right about now. He's a good guy and I'm sure he'll use his judgement and do the right thing for the union pilot group that he represents.

 

[skiandsurf]

You're right. They will steal market share. And they'll be using their pilots' wages to subsidize it. It's not too hard to undercut another airline's fares and steal market share when you have a group of pilots working for 2/3's (or less) of the going rate.

This is why I left the airline world for NJs.

Didnt UAL file Ch 11, cutting their pilots pay, then undecutting I-Air's fares.

Its a "dog eat dog world" out there, and everyone is out for themselves.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Wanting a zillion dollars a year and only working on Wednesday is completely unreasonable.

It's a joke ualdriver, and one of the oldest ones in the industry.

 

[ualdriver]

It's a joke ualdriver, and one of the oldest ones in the industry.

Yeah I know. I was making the point of paying you something resembling an industry standard wage is not unreasonable.

 

[cruxx@9]

First of all it's a start up. Are there any carriers or companies for that matter that were union the first year? two years? five years?

I understand the double edged sword of the union, however, usually management dictates when a union comes on property. I'm union now and thank God, because the management here at NK would decimate us if we weren't. And that's when they follow the contract to begin with. This however is another thread.

What are the pay rates for 1st year captain at UAL or any other airline for that matter? I'm sure they are low because you don't have first year captains. The pilots going to VA are taking the gamble that as things move forward, things will work themselves out as Ralph commented earlier.

As far as market share goes. You will always have the 3 types of passengers...or guests as it may be.

1) will always go brand loyality because of perks, destinations or just "I always fly____" no matter what. This passenger maybe swayed because to another carrier, but probably won't. 2) always takes the cheapest ticket. No one can get this guy all the time and he deserves what he gets. 3) The guest that want's to be treated well. Is tired of either the cattle call, or being treated like a cog in huge machine and poor customer service. Is tired of all the crap and is looking for something better and will pay more for it. The guest wants to be treated like a human being. This passenger (or guest) is going to fly VA and the other carriers won't get him/her back unless corporate culture changes.