Proposed List of 100 Netjets Crew Bases

[Crobar]

I would put money on it not passing, bet it goes 600-1000 yes/ 1700-2100 no.

 

[gunfyter]

Dy'a think somewhere, somebody is giggling their butt off watching the unified pilots of 1108 rip each other up in the middle of a bargaining period? Divide and conquer my friends. Divide and conquer.

YES.

I am ready to drop the Single Carrier to keep my schedule and HBA's

 

[brokeflyer]

Well i like my 7&7.....all this for new guys to have 100 airports.....???

when I came here it $29,000 a year PLUS i got to drive to a gateway. So i had my fight and Im still fighting, but there aint no way im gonna f*ck up my life so someone else can have it easier.

Sorry but its a NO unless i can move forward not backwards.

 

[brokeflyer]

Uhhhh... that's exactly what happens with the current contract. Each quarter, you have to bid to stay on reserve, and it's assigned in seniority order. You can be--and, in fact, I have been--bumped off the reserve and onto the lower-paying 7/7 by a more senior pilot.

Yes im sure that sucks.....so your all for this, thats fine. But what about the people who like to plan ahead for things?. I know you can't please everyone but the 15-18 day are great, add those schedules and leave the 7&7 the way it is and my vote would be YES.

 

[DO-82 driver]

After spending a few days in CMH and after speaking to a number of pre-rat guys I really think this IBB thing is NOT going to pass.

Too many changes and the pre-rat guys get really nothing in return.

Many questions need to be answered and explained.

Questions like----- why are BED, LGA, JFK, HPN and TEB all bases yet MHT, which current has about 50+ guys using it is excluded from the list of bases?

True it can be used as an HBA but this is just to set it up to be cut come 2010 or whenever the contract will become renegotiation.

Many people are very upset about this whole package.

 

[bosdrx]

So lets say this thing doesn't pass, is there a possibility for the union and the company to fix the issues and represent it to the pilot group for another vote? That happened over here a couple years ago: first TA came out and got shot down; then the union and the company went back to work, put out a new TA and it got approved...

Can't say I much like the "screw the new guys" mentality I've seen here, but I guess these message boards really do bring out the best in people...

 

[Dr Pepper]

True it can be used as an HBA but this is just to set it up to be cut come 2010 or whenever the contract will become renegotiation.

If the amendable date is changed and there are not major improvements in pay and no addressing of scope, then there is a good chance this will sink fast.

I am junior and I have no problem with the annual flush. I also could care less about what month we do the flush, but I can see that the majority does want Feb over June. Lose HOU and BED, and replace them with MHT and Medford OR. Or whichever the people in NE are complaining about. DAL over DFW makes no sense. PTO is not a good replacement for H days or sick days. I don't see myself bidding the 15 day flex, since you have no clue as to when you will be used. I'd probably opt for the 18, since it is published on the 15th prior. I also don't this issue as a yes/no issue for me.

I really don't know what to make of the Standby Duty as it has been presented so far. Truely we need all the details to make a rational decision.

If this fails based solely on the HBA issue, I will be forced to LMAO when the company opens up doms and sats and people drive past their HBA to their new sat airport.

 

[brokeflyer]

Its not a "screw the new guy" issue. It's about back tracking all the hard we put into getting HBA's and 7&7 for all. You new guys want HBA's, well I dont blame ya. When i came to work here we had gateways. I know guys that were driving 6+ hours. When i came here i wanted something other that 29,000 per year. You new guys now get over 40k. Its not about screwing you over, its about me giving up stuff that is already secure.....unless the turd passes......then we all just unzipped our fly to the company.....they will look at this and KNOW they broke us....it will never end after that, all our strength and power will be gone.

then its all over for us.....mesa would be a better place to work.

 

[Crobar]

I am totally confused why are leaders of 1108 are retreating instead of holding the line in regards to HBAs, it works for NJI so it will work here.
Just heard a guy say his drive from home in Amarillo to DAL, his current domicile, 350 miles is only going to be 250 miles to OKC the nearest of 100 bases under the IBB.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Bosdrx,

Its not a "screw the new guy" mentality that will cause this thing to fail......

There are many things that I have read so far that will negatively effect pre-rat guys as well. Especially those who are IOE, TR's Check Airmen.

Its beyond "HBA's for all" at this point.

Let them continue to work on it. If it fails then they can either pack it in until 2010 or re-open negotiations and work on what was presented.

 

[LostComm]

I am totally confused why are leaders of 1108 are retreating instead of holding the line in regards to HBAs, it works for NJI so it will work here.

They're not retreating, they're negotiating. Neither side gets everything they want, that's life.

And for those that can't see it yet, HBA as it stands today is not going to survive. So it's either now or later, and the leadership obviously believes that it's better now than later.

I'm sure that will upset those that can' see it, but that's life

 

[Crobar]

They're not retreating, they're negotiating. Neither side gets everything they want, that's life.

And for those that can't see it yet, HBA as it stands today is not going to survive. So it's either now or later, and the leadership obviously believes that it's better now than later.

I'm sure that will upset those that can' see it, but that's life

HBAs have worked fine and are still working fine for NJI, so that myth is busted.

 

[LostComm]

HBAs have worked fine and are still working fine for NJI, so that myth is busted.

Only time will tell.................. myth test results TBD.

My money says that the money will do the talking

Did before.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I don't understand how anyone could logically have decided for a "yes" vote already. I know some of the so-called "post-rat" guys are tired of their commute, but how can anyone decide a vote on this package based solely on one issue? There's a lot of details missing from what we've read so far and there is still a lot to be negotiated and presented to us.

I'm still waiting for the rest of the package but I see a lot of pitfalls and landmines in what's been revealed so far. Maybe there will be a lot of tweaking in the next 3 weeks or so.

Of course, we're still waiting for info on Section 27...

 

[DO-82 driver]

To heck with Section 27....

From what I've read thus far, they are going to have to do a bit of fixing before I even consider looking at Section 27.

I'll wait 'til 2010.

 

[brokeflyer]

I don't understand how anyone could logically have decided for a "yes" vote already. I know some of the so-called "post-rat" guys are tired of their commute, but how can anyone decide a vote on this package based solely on one issue? There's a lot of details missing from what we've read so far and there is still a lot to be negotiated and presented to us.

I'm still waiting for the rest of the package but I see a lot of pitfalls and landmines in what's been revealed so far. Maybe there will be a lot of tweaking in the next 3 weeks or so.

Of course, we're still waiting for info on Section 27...

WOW when did they post our part of that IBB?......All the stuff on there so far only pertains to the things the company will get......

So what did it say we get out of the deal?


lol

 

[Hogprint]

That's right, damn those junior pilots. Let em quit. I got mine so pull up the ladder. NJ's "B" scale lives on.

Nobody is throwing the post/rat guys under the bus. If this passes then there is a good chance there will be TWO "B" scales at NJA.

HBA's and the PTO's that will be FORCED on all new hires. At this stage of the game (the jury is still out for me) it looks like we are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Hogprint]

Dy'a think somewhere, somebody is giggling their butt off watching the unified pilots of 1108 rip each other up in the middle of a bargaining period? Divide and conquer my friends. Divide and conquer.

As much as I'm sure that image would please some on this forum, rest assured on the "real" board there is good concerned and yes sometimes heated debate.

The UNIFIED pilots of 1108 are examining this from every angle with a microscope. Don't you worry, we will sniff any vermin out of the grain silo.

PS
the SCOPE issue hasn't even reared it's pretty head yet

 

[hammer2]

Dy'a think somewhere, somebody is giggling their butt off watching the unified pilots of 1108 rip each other up in the middle of a bargaining period? Divide and conquer my friends. Divide and conquer.

Only someone small and insignificant. SNICKER SNICKER hehehehahaha HAHAHAHA!!! Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Dorkjet]

Blah, blah, blah

As much as I'm sure that image would please some on this forum, rest assured on the "real" board there is good concerned and yes sometimes heated debate.

The UNIFIED pilots of 1108 are examining this from every angle with a microscope. Don't you worry, we will sniff any vermin out of the grain silo.

PS
the SCOPE issue hasn't even reared it's pretty head yet

You are correct in that, and that's why they put this out. For those of you saying NO at this point, you didn't learn the word yesterday, so stop deciding. This is where they are going. They need feed back and someone thought this would be a good idea...to put it out to everyone and get the responses. This thing isn't finished yet. The limitations on HBA's is odd and needs to be changed. I retract my comment on H-days in my previous post (see, I'm learning too!). They need to remain. The "crew rot" potential must be addressed if they are throwing out FRDA. That's why this is out there though. Tell them your concerns and then wait to see what they ultimately come up with. YOU voted these people into office...trust them to represent you...all of you. But remember, it IS a negotiation. If they move backwards, vote it down. I won't complain. If they go forward, maybe slightly diagonally, but forward nonetheless, then vote yes if you feel ok. The point in this isn't to divide and make people angry, although it already is doing just that. Voice your opinion to those to whom it matters. Don't complain to your junior F/O when you go back out on the line. Be careful around whom you b!tch. If you have decided NO already, with this incomplete "test the waters" draft, then tear up the union card and go away. Use your head and talk to those who need to hear your comments...the UNION, and don't make up your mind until we see a final product. And if you think about it...we may not even get a final product if the company screws around too much. The MEC could simply fold up the table and walk away and say they will wait until 2010. The point of all that is to just keep an open mind. I am. I have already re-thought some issues I posted on a few pages back.

and RNOPilot, or whatever your name is, I'm from South Carolina and not even WE say things like "sweet fancy jesus"! Give me a break and pass the sweet tea!!!

 

[buckeyes95]

I know one thing, if the company doesn't open up more basing options soon, then I'll be looking to walk. As I'm sure alot of other jr guys will be. NJI goes out of home, and the company can impose basing at will for the NJI guys. That tells me there is NO benefit to the current 5 base system.

 

[Fozzy]

I would put money on it not passing, bet it goes 600-1000 yes/ 1700-2100 no.

I will take that bet. If it goes to a vote it will pass. 60-40 or better.

Sorry.

 

[Fozzy]

YES.

I am ready to drop the Single Carrier to keep my schedule and HBA's

Are you $%*%ing kidding me. You have lost all credibility. Or maybe I missed something. Tell me I missed something. Did I miss something? Or are you being a *************************?
Selling out already.
I must have missed something.

If not you are not much of a "fyter".

 

[netjetwife]

From my perspective: Jumping from 5 domiciles to 100 bases is a lot of forward progress. True, the company could open more, but as they haven't it seems we should stop holding out hope that they will. At best all they have to do is match the other fracs if hiring is a problem. I'd like NJ pilots to have 100 choices, not just 20 or so.

I'm all for more scheduling options for our families. For some 7 days is too long to be gone. It seems reasonable that they can work out the bugs enough to get a deal to pass. No one should be surprised the company wants to fix areas of the contract they don't like. The good news is that NJ pilots get to negotiate and then to vote.

The company has to know that the pre-rat crowd won't be thrilled w/100 bases compared to the HBA system, and that many resist change when they're happy with what they have....soooo....that only leaves a pay raise to persuade the no-voters. I think they'll make the deal too tempting to refuse. The company has the money to do that. Management has seen the re$ult$ of having a motivated pilot force. It's illogical to think that they wouldn't want that to continue. So it stands to reason their offer will be designed to ensure that motivation remains high.

I am hopeful that the problems can be addressed at the table; they're certainly putting in long enough hours. Perhaps we're not hearing from the silent majority? Maybe some of you are understandably short on optimism when negotiations take place? I, personally, don't see why they can't work out a deal that will please the majority of the NJ pilots. The 2005 CBA tells me that they should know how to do that.

Best Regards,
Netjetwife

 

[Hogprint]

Dorkjet,
Not sure what exactly you're taking issue with in that post. If you'll put the bottle down and scroll up to my previous post you will see I stated I haven't made up my mind yet.

Just to bolster my position even more (as if I have too ) my HBA made the list of 100, so unless they throw some scratch at me, the basing in the short term doesn't affect me. I'm looking long term at this though, and I see the potential for abuse.

I want to relieve pressure on the post/rat bro's as much as anyone as I was a 4+ hour commuter when I was hired. This may be one of those scenarios of we suck it up now for a better deal later.

 

[gmorgan]

This is the opinion of someone who has been in this business for many years....39 as an airline pilot and 2 at NetJets.

I've seen this happen time after time over the years. There is always a small group that make a lot of noise and tell anyone that will listen that they are going to vote "NO".

But there is a huge silent majority of rational people out there that will look at what is put before them and make their decision on the whole package.....not some pet peave issue that has their panties in a knot.

From what I've seen so far, this will pass by a large margin

 

[Guitar Guy]

From what I've seen so far, this will pass by a large margin

That's an interesting prognostication.

From what I've seen so far, I think it'll take some tweaking (revisions) to what we've seen thus far plus a good amount of cash to get this to pass by a "large" margin. There are too many regressions in scheduling for non 7/7 folks right now and even for instructor/CA/NRFO pilots on the 7/7, in my opinion.

 

[brokeflyer]

This is the opinion of someone who has been in this business for many years....39 as an airline pilot and 2 at NetJets.

I've seen this happen time after time over the years. There is always a small group that make a lot of noise and tell anyone that will listen that they are going to vote "NO".

But there is a huge silent majority of rational people out there that will look at what is put before them and make their decision on the whole package.....not some pet peave issue that has their panties in a knot.

From what I've seen so far, this will pass by a large margin

oy yeah it will pass.....after they fix the flush bid or chage the bid date to allow for time on vacations....otherwise forget it.

 

[LostComm]

Once the money is on the table you'll see a shift in the general tone.

The vast majority of pilots (talking grandfathered here) are living where they want, they own a home, the spouse has a job and the kids are in school. The changes to HBA status will be offset by the monetary gain for these mostly stable and happy folks.

The voices that are the loudest on these message boards are predominately the "vocal minority", many of whom believe that everyone else thinks like them.

The vast majority don't post and many of those don't even come here.

Stay tuned for section 27.

 

[skiandsurf]

Once the money is on the table you'll see a shift in the general tone.

As a post-rat guy, I really dont see too much that I like, other than the 100 domiciles. Why not any airport that has airline service?

The information out right now is too vague. I need to see more info (PTO vs sick time....."the perfect schedule is a sick call away").

But I do trust the negotiators, and I am hoping for some "kick ass pay". This is the only way it will pass.