SWA or Alaska?

[hyeflyin]

Hey guys, I am in the fortunate position of having job offers from both SWA and Alaska. I still got to get the type for SWA and don't know when I will go to class. In regards to Alaska, I should be in class in the next 2 months, however I am looking at a 50% paycut for the first year, and won't return back to my current pay till year 3. Live in SoCal, so no commute eventually for Alaska, however SWA has many flights to LAS or OAK. For the SWA guys, how long do you think this slowdown will last and do you guys have confirmed orders for planes after 2008? I remember reading that SWA wanted to be at 600 planes within the next five years. In regards to Alaska, do you think you guys will catch up to SWA regarding pay and work rules? Where would you guys go if you were given the same opportunity? Sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out what to do. I would greatly appreciate the feedback. Thanks guys.

 

[roughneck]

They will be the same seniorty list in a year or so anyway. Go for the money.

 

[Mea25000]

I keep hearing the same thing as roughneck. I sure hope he is wrong. I know where all the southwest pilots would want all of us… on the street. Take the class date at AS and figure the rest out when you get a SWA date.

 

[skydash]

I keep hearing the same thing as roughneck. I sure hope he is wrong. I know where all the southwest pilots would want all of us… on the street. Take the class date at AS and figure the rest out when you get a SWA date.

On what do you base that ridiculous assertion??

 

[roughneck]

I know where all the southwest pilots would want all of us… on the street.

I don't know a single SWA pilot who would want anyone to lose their jobs if we bought Alaska. I know a few who would want to staple rather than DOH, but nobody should lose their jobs.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'd want to staple you , you'd want to staple me. We'd both put on the good fight. The difference is that when the fights over, you take it like a man and move on as a team - not act like a bunch of babies like USAir/Cactus.

Gup

 

[Charlie Brown]

First of all, congrats on being in such a "tough" position.

I have heard fairly reliable rumors that we will continue classes through the end of the year (WN).

If you still have to get the type, I would go ahead and do it now and then get your pool date. Take your class with AK, then decide what's best for you. I will say this though; a good friend of mine at AK is hoping we buy them. Take that for what it's worth.

Best of luck,
CB

 

[AlbieF15]

I like SWA. Good folks, good company.

I loved Alaska as a passenger. Great service, good crews.

However--putting the two together will ruin a good company. Alaska isn't what it is by being efficient--it was built around service. 30 minute turns to Juneau or Fairbanks won't ever create an "Alaska spirit".

I hope my friends at AK can have profitable and successful careers. I wish my buddies at SWA the same. And I hope they never join--because the loss will be the for the folks who fly on AK.

 

['72Gremlin]

I know where all the southwest pilots would want all of us… on the street.

.....if we bought Alaska....

Is this a real possibility? Alaska just seems too big a pill for SWA to swallow...

 

[tico]

Good job on getting two jobs....Go buy the type, get a pool position at SWA, accept the job at Alaska and when Southwest calls dont look back....We will never again come anywhere near SWA pay. We do not have the bargaining power and as each day goes by we have less..Alaska has become a rest stop on the career highway....Come here, get some decent 737 training, enjoy your time and head up the road...

We as an airline are slowly having a thermo-nuke meltdown and it has been under way since early 2000. When I got here 7 1/2 years ago it was a decent job but we have had a tremendous leadership void since then and we are just now beginning to see the results of that void....and dont for a minute consider our routes or our equipment or our people as a reason to park here....you will hear that argument but it really comes down to appreciation in the form of cold, hard cash.....Good luck

 

[Singlecoil]

We will never again come anywhere near SWA pay.

That is total horsehockey (tip hat to Col. Potter).

I hate this company even more than the next guy, but the fact is, right now the company appears to be negotiating in good faith. Will we get a deal next week? Absolutely not. But the two sides are meeting just about every week for multiple days. Read the negotiator's update every Friday. Before May 1st, they were openly pessimistic. Since then, they have been sending a distinctly optimistic message about the progress of negotiations. If your above quote refers to the fact that the airplanes are still moving, then I would say that when the negotiating committee sends a message that the company has stopped negotiating in good faith, then my current optimism will quickly erode, as will others I suspect.

 

[scoreboard]

take the one that gets you on the payroll first.

 

[johnsonrod]

SWA. I wouldn't think twice about it. Alaska's future is clouded (who knows who their eventual merger partner will be). SWA will be around for a long, long time. Go to SWA and buy a big house somewhere. However, look forward to working hard - multiple sectors and 20 minute turns will lose their appeal quickly. I'd still go to SWA with that choice.

 

[tico]

That is total horsehockey (tip hat to Col. Potter).

I hate this company even more than the next guy, but the fact is, right now the company appears to be negotiating in good faith. Will we get a deal next week? Absolutely not. But the two sides are meeting just about every week for multiple days. Read the negotiator's update every Friday. Before May 1st, they were openly pessimistic. Since then, they have been sending a distinctly optimistic message about the progress of negotiations. If your above quote refers to the fact that the airplanes are still moving, then I would say that when the negotiating committee sends a message that the company has stopped negotiating in good faith, then my current optimism will quickly erode, as will others I suspect.

I beg to differ....They are negotiating in good faith about shizzle that does not even matter unless pay rates and retirement get settled.....one of the oldest ploys in the book.....put months and months of good faith negotiating on the books so that when we balk at the pay and retirement structure they can go to a mediator and cry the blues about how they have tried so hard and if we just keep trying it will happen.....and somewhere in 09 or 10 they suddenly give in and we think that we got something....there is no reason to be optimistic at all...We are being stroked once again.....It is time to replace the negotiating committee with some hired gun labor lawyers and put us on equal footing with their hired guns......

 

[mach none]

You will not truly know what the best decision is until you graduate at the end. Contracts come and go. Go with what makes you happy.

 

[BigMeat]

I have friends at both places. Unless you want to live in a certain base for a certain type of lifestyle go to Southwest. It is a understatment on how well they treat their people. Plus the money is better. Alaska is a very good company too however.

 

[AK737FO]

Singlecoil - great post and well said. There is a wealth of information from the weekly negotiators note pad for those who care enough and take the time to read it. We see steady progress each week. As long as that continues, then I "get er done". When steady progress stops, then my attitude changes a wee bit. If we end up in mediation someday, it is far better to go there with everything done except pay. This only gives the mediator / company / ALPA one thing to hash out rather than a laundry list. Like it or not, this is the direction the negotiating comitee is taking.
Tico - guys like you scare me. Replace our negotiating committee with "hired guns"? Why is it that every airline has pilots who think that there are some laywers out there who can run in to save the day at the table. You want to hire tuff guys who know nothing about your job, but will some how be able to know what you want at the table? Replace our people who have been working on this issue 24/7 for nearly a year with some guy from Johnson & Johnson law firm? Sure that will fix it...

 

[Tanker Clown]

First of all, congrats on being in such a "tough" position.

I have heard fairly reliable rumors that we will continue classes through the end of the year (WN).


Best of luck,
CB

I'm hearing different. My buddy is waiting for a class and he said that the Sep classes aren't confirmed and they may get cancelled. His buddy (who's a check airman) also heard from the PD that this was in anticipation of a "big announcement." And the company is saying that it is in anticipation of a Air Tran merger. (Many SWA execs have been seen in Atlanta recently). So, classes may be a little sketchy for a while.

I'm hoping to get on with Air Tran before any merger since getting stapled to SWA wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

[Irishav8r]

Hey guys, I am in the fortunate position of having job offers from both SWA and Alaska. I still got to get the type for SWA and don't know when I will go to class. In regards to Alaska, I should be in class in the next 2 months, however I am looking at a 50% paycut for the first year, and won't return back to my current pay till year 3. Live in SoCal, so no commute eventually for Alaska, however SWA has many flights to LAS or OAK. For the SWA guys, how long do you think this slowdown will last and do you guys have confirmed orders for planes after 2008? I remember reading that SWA wanted to be at 600 planes within the next five years. In regards to Alaska, do you think you guys will catch up to SWA regarding pay and work rules? Where would you guys go if you were given the same opportunity? Sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out what to do. I would greatly appreciate the feedback. Thanks guys.

I love WN. Its everything I thought it would be. My advice to you is.. DO NOT TAKE CAREER ADVICE FROM ANYONE ON THIS WEBSITE.....

 

[GuppyWN]

Good point. Unless a United guy chips in. They know everything.

Gup

 

[RyansDad]

I'm hearing different. My buddy is waiting for a class and he said that the Sep classes aren't confirmed and they may get cancelled. His buddy (who's a check airman) also heard from the PD that this was in anticipation of a "big announcement." And the company is saying that it is in anticipation of a Air Tran merger. (Many SWA execs have been seen in Atlanta recently). So, classes may be a little sketchy for a while.

I'm hoping to get on with Air Tran before any merger since getting stapled to SWA wouldn't be the worst thing.

Calls have already gone out for 2 sept classes so those classes are confirmed. There is rumor of maybe a class in Oct but that one has not been confirmed. Once you get the call you are required to send them a fax of your resignation letter with your CPs fax number on it....These aren't the kind of people that would ask you to quit your current job and then pull the rug out from underneath you..
also i havent heard anything about the company saying anything about a big announcement or an airtran merger nor would i expect to...rumors at best IMO...GoodLuck with your decision

 

[tico]

"Tico - guys like you scare me. Replace our negotiating committee with "hired guns"? Why is it that every airline has pilots who think that there are some laywers out there who can run in to save the day at the table. You want to hire tuff guys who know nothing about your job, but will some how be able to know what you want at the table? Replace our people who have been working on this issue 24/7 for nearly a year with some guy from Johnson & Johnson law firm? Sure that will fix it..."

Who do you go to for a tooth ache or to have your prostate checked.....or to build your house or fix your car......and who do those people go to when they need to go to JNU or DCA.....Only pilots are arrogant enough to believe that they can do it all....I am saying put a lawyer accross the table from a lawyer...Play the game the way the oposition plays it....Don't have the farm team play in the superbowl....Get it...That does not mean that the negotiaters that we have would not be there but they should sit second chair when court is in session.....And I am glad that you git er done...so do I as soon as eveyone else gits er done and the door is closed.......

 

[OK3]

If a merger or acquisition were really in the near future you wouldn't have heard a word about it. When they (SWA Mgt) want to keep a secret, they do.

 

[General Lee]

Does Alaska Air go to Lubbock? If it does NOT, then go to Alaska. (You know I know it doesn't go there. Ah yeah) Seriously, LBB is a sorry town. Fly for Alaska and go see Sitka, AK. It is much prettier and the girls (or girl up there) are cuter.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Embry Ace]

I'm hoping to get on with Air Tran before any merger since getting stapled to SWA wouldn't be the worst thing.

Great idea, make a major career decision based on a merger rumor that your buddy told you. Nice!

 

[AlbieF15]

Great mexican food at a nearby joint with dollar beer, the Buddy Holly museum, and a swimming pool at the Holiday Inn.

I've done LBB a few times. Doesn't suck. Ain't the glamor capital of the world--but then again I've done a few them too. After a while--its just a beer, a steak, and a clean bed. Its knowng your paycheck will clear that helps you sleep at night...

 

[General Lee]

Great mexican food at a nearby joint with dollar beer, the Buddy Holly museum, and a swimming pool at the Holiday Inn.

I've done LBB a few times. Doesn't suck. Ain't the glamor capital of the world--but then again I've done a few them too. After a while--its just a beer, a steak, and a clean bed. Its knowng your paycheck will clear that helps you sleep at night...

That's great and all, but you know that eventually you yourself can bid the MD11 and see the world if you want to. That can't be said at many airlines, having the option that is. And, knowing your paycheck will clear is common at most legacies these days. You should know that, you help people interview at them, right? A boring flight schedule would suk, and you should know that too. And seeing the world on someone else's dime really isn't just a beer, a steak, and a clean bed. It is a smile when you see the name of the city you are going to on the gate. Seeing Paris or Barcellona or Venice just doesn't get old. Now seeing Lubbock, Midland, Amarillo, or Harlingen, that could get old really quick. (especially if it takes 4 or 5 legs to get there first).

But, if it is between SWA and Alaska, I would go to Alaska if you want to live in SEA or PDX, and SWA if you want to live somewhere else. Regardless, you will be flying 737s for the rest of your career it looks like as of now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

Avoid Alaska and go to SWA. If you want international, get your stuff in to Delta - they are hiring 75 per month and many newhires are going directly to the 767ER. Otherwise, go to SWA. Simple as that.

 

[SWA/FO]

go to Alaska!

 

[lumax]

Curious why a SWA guy recommends Alaska instead of SWA????