UAL training

[contrail67]

Just curious if United puts you up in a hotel during new hire training or do you have to get your own place.
Thanks.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Newhires of past paid for their hotel...but perdiem and salary are paid. Don't know about this time around

 

[pilotgolfer]

They said we were on our own for the hotel. You get the 70 hour guarantee, but nobody mentioned per diem. They said there will be website with all the information, but the site was down last time I checked.

 

[iflyhigh]

When I was hired at UAL in July, 2000, we paid for our hotels and food. We received guarantee paid and not per diem. I doubt that has changed much.

 

[avrodriver]

When I was hired at UAL in July, 2000, we paid for our hotels and food. We received guarantee paid and not per diem. I doubt that has changed much.

Except for the $32/hr to start and the 3-4 years it will take to get back to your old pay. No 401k match is that right? And a guarantee of 70hrs or something?...Trust me...I've applied, but with the hope that mgmt gets a clue and a direction and that the pilots can somehow get some sh*t back before I'd have to make a decision if it came to that. Wow this whole not putting you up thing is definitely just another reason to ask myself...would I really be willing to do this?

 

[freebeer]

That is completely crazy! A company that requires you to be somewhere else and will not pay for it. I would expect it from some sleezebag outfit but not a major carrier. We all run into airline workers (mx, bag, etc..) in the airports that are going somewhere at the companies request...I'm know that they are getting their lodging paid for.

What a messed up industry!

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

No 401k match is that right?

What 401k match gives you 16% without having to put in a dime??? I would rather have the B and C funds than a silly 3% 401k match.

 

[LearLove]

my father had to pay for his hotel while in training at UAL back in 1978.

I think the DAL guy pay/paid for their hotel also

when Airtran hired me in 3/2001 the package they sent me state that hotel while in training in ATl was on us.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Pay for your Hotel in Training

US Airways in the past has always paid for your hotel as a new hire in training.

Now that we are on the verge of hiring off the street again, I am not sure if we will still keep that policy.

I hope so.

 

[Frac Cap]

I know it is a different beast, but at the fractionals, we were given paid airline tickets, and put up in a hotel for the interview. When we went to in-doc and school to get typed we got per-deim and was put up in a hotel.

On a different note, and I hope this doesn't sidetrack this thread, but does anyone know what one could reasonably expect to make year 1,2, and 3 at United. I come from a different culture and have no idea about how overtime works, how easy it is to get or how it can be maximized.

 

[Andy]

When I was hired at UAL in July, 2000, we paid for our hotels and food. We received guarantee paid and not per diem. I doubt that has changed much.

If you didn't get per diem, it was because you were domiciled in Denver. I was domiciled in ORD and received per diem. Because of that, I usually didn't leave DEN when I had days off. The per diem was more than the cost of my room at the Red Lion.

As for the lack of a 401k match, it's not necessary. As JetPilotMike stated, United puts 16% of your salary into your B/C fund without any need to match it. So if you make $100K/yr, you get an additional $16K/yr going into your B/C without putting in a dime of your own cash.

 

[freebeer]

So $4300 per year retirement is a good thing on $27,000 guarantee? (1st Year)

 

[Bigoober]

16% is more than most Americans would ever consider putting into their retirement per year no matter their pay. I personally would strive to make more than 1st year pay over my career.

 

[freebeer]

That's the problem, You may strive to make more than 1st year pay over your career, but it is unfortunate that the big wigs at all the airlines see differently. They want to line their pockets before lining yours.

The first 5 years of pay at UAL are dismal! Then look at what a 10 year 737/a320 captain makes. Pitiful!

Ok, I know that the contract has some room for pay raises over the next year or so. But do you really think it will amount to anything more than a 25% increase over the next 5 years? This is not a slam on anyone. Our industry has done this to our selves, and management is laughing all the way to the bank thanks to deregulation.

 

[Andy]

Freebeer, by no means am I trying to justify United's or any other airline's payscale. I was making $85/hr with 9% going into my B fund and a guaranteed pension when I got furloughed from United as an Airbus FO in March 2002 - second year pay. I returned as a 767 FO in Jan 2007 on second year pay making $59/hr with 15% going to my B/C funds and no pension. I'll make $86/hr on year 3 767 FO pay. That sucks.

But let's talk the bigger problem here. It's supply and demand. There are more qualified pilots than there are jobs, and plenty of pilots are willing to sell their services cheaper than Filipino hooker. We are our own worst enemies.
This trend is going to continue until our salaries are the same as flight attendants and CS agents. It may not even stop there; there are a lot idiots out there with SJS.

We can blame it on airline management, but we need to look in the mirror and blame ourselves. Do you really expect United to be able to compete with Virgin America, who pays their captains ~80K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores), or Skybus, who pays their captains ~$60K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores) without cutting pilot salaries?
Look, this is a commodity business. All airlines supply essentially the same product with only minor variations. And with the advent of travelocity etc, all airlines pretty much match each other. They have to ensure that they have similar cost structures. So until you can get the pilot whores out there to not take jobs with substandard wages, there will continue to be downward pressure on pilot salaries.

We're one to two quarters away from a very nasty recession that is going to kill demand for pilots for several years. If you think that United's wages are bad now, wait until you see the payscales in 2010.

And one final question. What do you think changing pilot retirement age to 65 will do to the supply/demand imbalance? How do you think the rule change will effect wages?

 

[Allen1]

Freebeer, by no means am I trying to justify United's or any other airline's payscale. I was making $85/hr with 9% going into my B fund and a guaranteed pension when I got furloughed from United as an Airbus FO in March 2002 - second year pay. I returned as a 767 FO in Jan 2007 on second year pay making $59/hr with 15% going to my B/C funds and no pension. I'll make $86/hr on year 3 767 FO pay. That sucks.

But let's talk the bigger problem here. It's supply and demand. There are more qualified pilots than there are jobs, and plenty of pilots are willing to sell their services cheaper than Filipino hooker. We are our own worst enemies.
This trend is going to continue until our salaries are the same as flight attendants and CS agents. It may not even stop there; there are a lot idiots out there with SJS.

We can blame it on airline management, but we need to look in the mirror and blame ourselves. Do you really expect United to be able to compete with Virgin America, who pays their captains ~80K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores), or Skybus, who pays their captains ~$60K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores) without cutting pilot salaries?
Look, this is a commodity business. All airlines supply essentially the same product with only minor variations. And with the advent of travelocity etc, all airlines pretty much match each other. They have to ensure that they have similar cost structures. So until you can get the pilot whores out there to not take jobs with substandard wages, there will continue to be downward pressure on pilot salaries.

We're one to two quarters away from a very nasty recession that is going to kill demand for pilots for several years. If you think that United's wages are bad now, wait until you see the payscales in 2010.

And one final question. What do you think changing pilot retirement age to 65 will do to the supply/demand imbalance? How do you think the rule change will effect wages?

Umm don't just blame ex Indy guys, there are also guys from other legacy's that quit to go to virgin. Some of us ex Indy guys left the airline industry to work else where because of the sorry pay. I guess you're also a whore for going back to work for a company that pays those rates. Don't be saying negative things about other pilots when you're obviously willing to do the same things. If you truly believe what you're saying you would have told united where to go when you got the recall notice.

 

[avrodriver]

What 401k match gives you 16% without having to put in a dime??? I would rather have the B and C funds than a silly 3% 401k match.

Doesn't say anything about that on Airline Pilot Central, which is the only thing I had access too. Either way UAL's contract sucks b.alls compared to Air Wis's as well as many other regionals contracts. 16% is uber cool but what about everything else? I thought going to the "big boys" was supposed to be a step up not a step down ( and yes I know just about everywhere you get burned the first year, but UAL is fricken ridiculous). We can all agree on that.

 

[contrail67]

Looking at all the Big Boys as you call them, seem the rates are very similar. Where are you seeing United's rates so far beneath the others? Not seeing that info.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Doesn't say anything about that on Airline Pilot Central, which is the only thing I had access too. Either way UAL's contract sucks b.alls compared to Air Wis's as well as many other regionals contracts. 16% is uber cool but what about everything else? I thought going to the "big boys" was supposed to be a step up not a step down ( and yes I know just about everywhere you get burned the first year, but UAL is fricken ridiculous). We can all agree on that.

Maybe you should check again.

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

none

A/B Fund: ​

none/9% B-plan

Other: ​

Profit sharing, C-Fund: 6%

 

[T-Bags]

Umm don't just blame ex Indy guys, there are also guys from other legacy's that quit to go to virgin. Some of us ex Indy guys left the airline industry to work else where because of the sorry pay. I guess you're also a whore for going back to work for a company that pays those rates. Don't be saying negative things about other pilots when you're obviously willing to do the same things. If you truly believe what you're saying you would have told united where to go when you got the recall notice.

I see you are very astute... . If you look at Bad Andy's profile, you'll see that he's on mil leave from UAL. What that means is he's accruing retirement (at about 1K a month), longevity and seniority at UAL without flying a single hour. As a matter of fact, he'll be around $100 (about $117 with retirement benefits) an hour (or higher) to be an FO by the time he goes back. He bypassed recall and when he was finally forced to take a recall, he said "put me on the list, I'll let you know when I'll come back". Now whose the ho son?

 

[avrodriver]

Looking at all the Big Boys as you call them, seem the rates are very similar. Where are you seeing United's rates so far beneath the others? Not seeing that info.

Delta

 

[Allen1]

I see you are very astute... . If you look at Bad Andy's profile, you'll see that he's on mil leave from UAL. What that means is he's accruing retirement (at about 1K a month), longevity and seniority at UAL without flying a single hour. As a matter of fact, he'll be around $100 (about $117 with retirement benefits) an hour (or higher) to be an FO by the time he goes back. He bypassed recall and when he was finally forced to take a recall, he said "put me on the list, I'll let you know when I'll come back". Now whose the ho son?

Well lets see I just read what he wrote and he said he returned in Jan of 2007 so thats what I went by.

 

[avrodriver]

Maybe you should check again.

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

none

A/B Fund: ​

none/9% B-plan

Other: ​

Profit sharing, C-Fund: 6%

What did I orig. post? No 401K matching (thank you for posting that because that is exactly what I said). I didn't mention funds because I had no idea what they were...thank you for educating me.

Can you now explain how the contract as a whole does not suck (days off, rigs, guarantee, etc). I know United is on par with alot of the other legacies. But on the flip side United has zero planes on order and I haven't heard alot of talk of massive retirements such as CAL and US. So not only do I see a new hire working under a crappy contract I also see a slow climb up the seniority list of a company that really hasn't changed their business model (aside from constantly touting they want to merge) since they were in bankruptcy last time around.

I admit I applied, but if the decision was put in front of me to go tomorrow...I don't know. You seem pretty stuck on this fund thing...which I know is a pretty good deal...but is the rest of the picture? It doesn't help that everytime I jumpseat on a A320 or 737 the F/O tells me to stay away. Why would you go?

 

[contrail67]

What is it any of your business if a person goes to UAL anyway???? Stay where you are at and call it done.

 

[avrodriver]

What is it any of your business if a person goes to UAL anyway???? Stay where you are at and call it done.

Did I say it was my business?

Just asking a fair question why people are attracted to UAL. And if they are...do they have the same reservations that I have? Umm did you miss the part where I said I applied? I definitely have some pro's on my list or I wouldn't have bothered to.

Think I'm done asking questions here...sorry if I offended anyone. Good Luck!

 

[iflyhigh]

avcrodriver:

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

The reasons people are applying to UAL is a vary as the universe. Alot of people hold hope, and I for one hope it happens, that in 2010 they will get a better contract with better work rules. Will that happen time will tell.

Others go to UAL, due to the possibility to fly international on good equipment, ie 747, 777, 757/767. Will it take a while to get to the 777 or 747 probably. It the pilot in young enough, I say 28 or so, the retirements at UAL accelerate starting in 2015 and continue to 2025. This person would then move up the list quickly. It that a ways off, you bet, but if you wait to apply, you will not be is such a good position. Now if age 65 goes through its another story, add five years.

Hope this helps.

 

[Andy]

Umm don't just blame ex Indy guys, there are also guys from other legacy's that quit to go to virgin. Some of us ex Indy guys left the airline industry to work else where because of the sorry pay. I guess you're also a whore for going back to work for a company that pays those rates. Don't be saying negative things about other pilots when you're obviously willing to do the same things. If you truly believe what you're saying you would have told united where to go when you got the recall notice.

T-Bags has already pointed out my current status. I accepted recall to United in Jan 2007. I will return to Yo-nited in fall 2009. For about 9 months, until I can reset my man day clock and return to the AF Reserves and my staff puke job for another 3 1/4 years. I really won't be back to United until 2014, if ever. If something else comes up, I will have no problem walking away from this business forever.
I find the current payscales disgusting across the board - United's payscale included - and companies such VA and Skybus will put further pressure on ALL airlines' pilot wages.

As for my Indy comments, you and I both know that the core of the pilots at both VA and Skybus are Indy grads. Not all Indy grads fill the stereotype, but that company sure produced more than it's fair share of whores. And after the crap your former company pulled on Yo-nited back when you were ACA and Yo-nited was on it's knees, it was schadenfreude to watch Indy implode. That, and I made a decent chunk of change shorting the crap out of Indy's stock. Talk about a stupid business model - start a low fare carrier with high cost aircraft (RJs). I looked at the first investors' brief from your company and started ROTFLMAO.
I used to visit your old ACA lounge and chuckled at the estrogenic comments from your fellow employees complaining on how mean the mainline people were to you poor ACAites. Having been around Yo-nited for a while, let me unequivically state that EVERYONE got treated poorly by a large minority of United employees. There was nothing personal directed at ACAites. I remember deadheading when we were authorized first if there were seats available - the gate agent said that it checked in full. He lied - an offline jumpseater took the seat in first. That was business as usual at Yo-nited.

 

[Allen1]

T-Bags has already pointed out my current status. I accepted recall to United in Jan 2007. I will return to Yo-nited in fall 2009. For about 9 months, until I can reset my man day clock and return to the AF Reserves and my staff puke job for another 3 1/4 years. I really won't be back to United until 2014, if ever. If something else comes up, I will have no problem walking away from this business forever.
I find the current payscales disgusting across the board - United's payscale included - and companies such VA and Skybus will put further pressure on ALL airlines' pilot wages.

As for my Indy comments, you and I both know that the core of the pilots at both VA and Skybus are Indy grads. Not all Indy grads fill the stereotype, but that company sure produced more than it's fair share of whores. And after the crap your former company pulled on Yo-nited back when you were ACA and Yo-nited was on it's knees, it was schadenfreude to watch Indy implode. That, and I made a decent chunk of change shorting the crap out of Indy's stock. Talk about a stupid business model - start a low fare carrier with high cost aircraft (RJs). I looked at the first investors' brief from your company and started ROTFLMAO.
I used to visit your old ACA lounge and chuckled at the estrogenic comments from your fellow employees complaining on how mean the mainline people were to you poor ACAites. Having been around Yo-nited for a while, let me unequivically state that EVERYONE got treated poorly by a large minority of United employees. There was nothing personal directed at ACAites. I remember deadheading when we were authorized first if there were seats available - the gate agent said that it checked in full. He lied - an offline jumpseater took the seat in first. That was business as usual at Yo-nited.

Your right that the core pilots are ex Indy but there are some former United guys there too. I'm so glad you enjoyed us losing our jobs! Just how is that ACA screwed united. For demanding to be payed what it cost to run the RJ's and pay there pilots better than most other regionals and still show a profit. Maybe if other regionals would have done the same thing United would have found it cheaper to do the flying themselves. I guess I should have just taken a paycut below mesas wages to help poor ole United out. United management is just so innocent in the mess and they just needed everyone to help them out. How much money did they throw away on the whole bain process.

 

[Daddy69]

CAL pays for the hotel while in training. You also get a 76 hr gur + per diam. They also buy you a positive space ticket home on your off days. Not a bad deal except for the poor first year pay and no medical insurance for 6 months.

 

[GogglesPisano]

A career at a legacy is still the best deal out there. JMHO.