UAL training

[Andy]

When I was hired at UAL in July, 2000, we paid for our hotels and food. We received guarantee paid and not per diem. I doubt that has changed much.

If you didn't get per diem, it was because you were domiciled in Denver. I was domiciled in ORD and received per diem. Because of that, I usually didn't leave DEN when I had days off. The per diem was more than the cost of my room at the Red Lion.

As for the lack of a 401k match, it's not necessary. As JetPilotMike stated, United puts 16% of your salary into your B/C fund without any need to match it. So if you make $100K/yr, you get an additional $16K/yr going into your B/C without putting in a dime of your own cash.

 

[freebeer]

So $4300 per year retirement is a good thing on $27,000 guarantee? (1st Year)

 

[Bigoober]

16% is more than most Americans would ever consider putting into their retirement per year no matter their pay. I personally would strive to make more than 1st year pay over my career.

 

[freebeer]

That's the problem, You may strive to make more than 1st year pay over your career, but it is unfortunate that the big wigs at all the airlines see differently. They want to line their pockets before lining yours.

The first 5 years of pay at UAL are dismal! Then look at what a 10 year 737/a320 captain makes. Pitiful!

Ok, I know that the contract has some room for pay raises over the next year or so. But do you really think it will amount to anything more than a 25% increase over the next 5 years? This is not a slam on anyone. Our industry has done this to our selves, and management is laughing all the way to the bank thanks to deregulation.

 

[Andy]

Freebeer, by no means am I trying to justify United's or any other airline's payscale. I was making $85/hr with 9% going into my B fund and a guaranteed pension when I got furloughed from United as an Airbus FO in March 2002 - second year pay. I returned as a 767 FO in Jan 2007 on second year pay making $59/hr with 15% going to my B/C funds and no pension. I'll make $86/hr on year 3 767 FO pay. That sucks.

But let's talk the bigger problem here. It's supply and demand. There are more qualified pilots than there are jobs, and plenty of pilots are willing to sell their services cheaper than Filipino hooker. We are our own worst enemies.
This trend is going to continue until our salaries are the same as flight attendants and CS agents. It may not even stop there; there are a lot idiots out there with SJS.

We can blame it on airline management, but we need to look in the mirror and blame ourselves. Do you really expect United to be able to compete with Virgin America, who pays their captains ~80K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores), or Skybus, who pays their captains ~$60K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores) without cutting pilot salaries?
Look, this is a commodity business. All airlines supply essentially the same product with only minor variations. And with the advent of travelocity etc, all airlines pretty much match each other. They have to ensure that they have similar cost structures. So until you can get the pilot whores out there to not take jobs with substandard wages, there will continue to be downward pressure on pilot salaries.

We're one to two quarters away from a very nasty recession that is going to kill demand for pilots for several years. If you think that United's wages are bad now, wait until you see the payscales in 2010.

And one final question. What do you think changing pilot retirement age to 65 will do to the supply/demand imbalance? How do you think the rule change will effect wages?

 

[Allen1]

Freebeer, by no means am I trying to justify United's or any other airline's payscale. I was making $85/hr with 9% going into my B fund and a guaranteed pension when I got furloughed from United as an Airbus FO in March 2002 - second year pay. I returned as a 767 FO in Jan 2007 on second year pay making $59/hr with 15% going to my B/C funds and no pension. I'll make $86/hr on year 3 767 FO pay. That sucks.

But let's talk the bigger problem here. It's supply and demand. There are more qualified pilots than there are jobs, and plenty of pilots are willing to sell their services cheaper than Filipino hooker. We are our own worst enemies.
This trend is going to continue until our salaries are the same as flight attendants and CS agents. It may not even stop there; there are a lot idiots out there with SJS.

We can blame it on airline management, but we need to look in the mirror and blame ourselves. Do you really expect United to be able to compete with Virgin America, who pays their captains ~80K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores), or Skybus, who pays their captains ~$60K/yr (farkin' ex-Indy Air whores) without cutting pilot salaries?
Look, this is a commodity business. All airlines supply essentially the same product with only minor variations. And with the advent of travelocity etc, all airlines pretty much match each other. They have to ensure that they have similar cost structures. So until you can get the pilot whores out there to not take jobs with substandard wages, there will continue to be downward pressure on pilot salaries.

We're one to two quarters away from a very nasty recession that is going to kill demand for pilots for several years. If you think that United's wages are bad now, wait until you see the payscales in 2010.

And one final question. What do you think changing pilot retirement age to 65 will do to the supply/demand imbalance? How do you think the rule change will effect wages?

Umm don't just blame ex Indy guys, there are also guys from other legacy's that quit to go to virgin. Some of us ex Indy guys left the airline industry to work else where because of the sorry pay. I guess you're also a whore for going back to work for a company that pays those rates. Don't be saying negative things about other pilots when you're obviously willing to do the same things. If you truly believe what you're saying you would have told united where to go when you got the recall notice.

 

[avrodriver]

What 401k match gives you 16% without having to put in a dime??? I would rather have the B and C funds than a silly 3% 401k match.

Doesn't say anything about that on Airline Pilot Central, which is the only thing I had access too. Either way UAL's contract sucks b.alls compared to Air Wis's as well as many other regionals contracts. 16% is uber cool but what about everything else? I thought going to the "big boys" was supposed to be a step up not a step down ( and yes I know just about everywhere you get burned the first year, but UAL is fricken ridiculous). We can all agree on that.

 

[contrail67]

Looking at all the Big Boys as you call them, seem the rates are very similar. Where are you seeing United's rates so far beneath the others? Not seeing that info.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Doesn't say anything about that on Airline Pilot Central, which is the only thing I had access too. Either way UAL's contract sucks b.alls compared to Air Wis's as well as many other regionals contracts. 16% is uber cool but what about everything else? I thought going to the "big boys" was supposed to be a step up not a step down ( and yes I know just about everywhere you get burned the first year, but UAL is fricken ridiculous). We can all agree on that.

Maybe you should check again.

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

none

A/B Fund: ​

none/9% B-plan

Other: ​

Profit sharing, C-Fund: 6%

 

[T-Bags]

Umm don't just blame ex Indy guys, there are also guys from other legacy's that quit to go to virgin. Some of us ex Indy guys left the airline industry to work else where because of the sorry pay. I guess you're also a whore for going back to work for a company that pays those rates. Don't be saying negative things about other pilots when you're obviously willing to do the same things. If you truly believe what you're saying you would have told united where to go when you got the recall notice.

I see you are very astute... . If you look at Bad Andy's profile, you'll see that he's on mil leave from UAL. What that means is he's accruing retirement (at about 1K a month), longevity and seniority at UAL without flying a single hour. As a matter of fact, he'll be around $100 (about $117 with retirement benefits) an hour (or higher) to be an FO by the time he goes back. He bypassed recall and when he was finally forced to take a recall, he said "put me on the list, I'll let you know when I'll come back". Now whose the ho son?