?? for those that have flown major dom and intl.

[wmuflyguy]

A related question.

When your flying with more than 2 pilots, how often do you switch from flying to resting? Is it like every couple of hours someone takes a break?

Also, how do you guys log your flight time? I know the CA probably logs the entire flight as PIC, but as an FO do you only log the time actually spent in the seat?

 

[glasspilot1]

I always tried to do a mix. A whole month of Int'l. wiped me out.

That's one thing I liked at TWA. No separate Int and Dom divisions. Northwest and American still have separate status with this. To me that would be just a big roadblock.

At TWA as a 767 F/O I could bid Int one month, Dom the next and Reserve the next. I was running a crash pad in NY for a couple of years so having this flexibility was great. I could enjoy Int for a couple months and then update my landings with a month of Domestic. Then bid Reserve to catch up with crash pad business (back in the days when reserves flew one trip a month).

 

[bubbers44]

We had all three in cockpit for 1st and last half hr so on a 9 hr flight with 8 cruising hrs took one break of 2:40 each.

Nobody cares about how much time to log at that time in your career. I would guess you wouldn't count the resting time but can pretty much guaranty nobody breaks it down. They all log 9 hrs.

 

[bubbers44]

However crew scheduling would deduct the 2:40 to show legality and keep the computer happy for future scheduling.

 

[glasspilot1]

When your flying with more than 2 pilots, how often do you switch from flying to resting? Is it like every couple of hours someone takes a break?

Also, how do you guys log your flight time? I know the CA probably logs the entire flight as PIC, but as an FO do you only log the time actually spent in the seat?

At TWA after gear up the relief pilot (Eater) would add up the flight plan segment times. Then copy them to the Capt and F/Os flt plan (unless they wanted to do it themselves).

Then talk to the Capt; how much time to 30 minutes to landing? Divide that time by 3. That's the rest time each gets. Usually the least desirable rest is the first (no-ones tired yet!), so guess who gets it? The Eater. If the F/O was the pilot flying the "good" Capts would ask him what rest he preferred. I liked the last one so I was fresh for landing.

To your second question; the capt logs PIC, both F/O's log second in command.

 

[pianoman]

At TWA after gear up the relief pilot (Eater) would add up the flight plan segment times. Then copy them to the Capt and F/Os flt plan (unless they wanted to do it themselves).

Then talk to the Capt; how much time to 30 minutes to landing? Divide that time by 3. That's the rest time each gets. Usually the least desirable rest is the first (no-ones tired yet!), so guess who gets it? The Eater. If the F/O was the pilot flying the "good" Capts would ask him what rest he preferred. I liked the last one so I was fresh for landing.

To your second question; the capt logs PIC, both F/O's log second in command.

That's pretty much exactly what we do at CAL, however there's only one master flight plan.

Also for the super long stuff we take breaks in tandem, so you end up dividing by 2 and sometimes you get around 6 hours or so to sleep in the back or watch movies.

At first I thought it was difficult but it really is no more tiring than shooting 5 approaches in marginal weather with a 500 hour pilot trying to kill you. Actually it's a lot LESS tiring.

I've really enjoyed both so I am glad I have the choice to go back and forth a bit in the future.


----And nothing beats getting lit at an Irish bar in Frankfurt listening to a German band covering Johnny Cash tunes watching a chick who looks like she could seriously kick my ass dance after eating a kick-ass steak dinner the captain wouldn't let us pay for. (Thanks again Dave B)---

 

[Scrapdog]

That's pretty much exactly what we do at CAL, however there's only one master flight plan.

Also for the super long stuff we take breaks in tandem, so you end up dividing by 2 and sometimes you get around 6 hours or so to sleep in the back or watch movies.

At first I thought it was difficult but it really is no more tiring than shooting 5 approaches in marginal weather with a 500 hour pilot trying to kill you. Actually it's a lot LESS tiring.

I've really enjoyed both so I am glad I have the choice to go back and forth a bit in the future.


----And nothing beats getting lit at an Irish bar in Frankfurt listening to a German band covering Johnny Cash tunes watching a chick who looks like she could seriously kick my ass dance after eating a kick-ass steak dinner the captain wouldn't let us pay for. (Thanks again Dave B)---

Piano - what was your DOH at CAL? I take it you're on the 756??

Edit - disregard - I just got my head out of my rump and read 777 by your profile. How do you like the 777 (as in relation to the 756)?

 

[Scrapdog]

No, not planning on that. I've made my bed..been here 6 years. I was just wondering if I'm really missing anything. I'm a year or two max from an upgrade, live in base, guard unit in base, happy with the schedules. I just wish our pay would come back. I doubt we'll be getting widebodies anytime soon, but I also doubt I could go anywhere else and be slated to retire #7.

Av8 - you need to get a job with the Alaska Reserves flying the F-22. If long flight times are bringing you down, you'll have plenty of 0.5's and 0.6's flying BFM (that is seriously the standard in the Raptor flying BFM). 15K of JP-8 in 30 minutes - holy shizzle!!!

 

[pianoman]

Scrap- I was hired 1/07- got the 777 to start with so I really don't have the 756 to compare it to. Friends say that the 76 trips are pretty senior.

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrap- I was hired 1/07- got the 777 to start with so I really don't have the 756 to compare it to. Friends say that the 76 trips are pretty senior.

Here's my beef - I was hired 12/06 on the 73. I'm currently on MLOA and will be until approx Sept/Oct of '08. Based on the last bid, I'm pretty sure by the time I come back I can comfortably hold a line on the 756, and possibly hold a line on the 777. Definetly want to maximize my time/pay as a commuter - hence my asking!! Trying to figure out if I should bid the 756 or 777 when I return to CAL...Of course I know I've got plenty of time to ponder.

 

[pianoman]

Here's my beef - I was hired 12/06 on the 73. I'm currently on MLOA and will be until approx Sept/Oct of '08. Based on the last bid, I'm pretty sure by the time I come back I can comfortably hold a line on the 756, and possibly hold a line on the 777. Definetly want to maximize my time/pay as a commuter - hence my asking!! Trying to figure out if I should bid the 756 or 777 when I return to CAL...Of course I know I've got plenty of time to ponder.

Since you're slightly senior to me, you may be able to hold a line when you come back. If you can, almost all the trips are commutable and you won't find a more productive mix of trips. The best is a 30-some hour 3 or 4 day. The worst is around a 15-hour 3 day.

If you're on reserve, maybe you can sit A if you're a commuter but they can still convert you to short call. I don't get used much on reserve, so if you're a commuter probably not a great idea.

Thanks for your service.

 

[Scrapdog]

Since you're slightly senior to me, you may be able to hold a line when you come back. If you can, almost all the trips are commutable and you won't find a more productive mix of trips. The best is a 30-some hour 3 or 4 day. The worst is around a 15-hour 3 day.

If you're on reserve, maybe you can sit A if you're a commuter but they can still convert you to short call. I don't get used much on reserve, so if you're a commuter probably not a great idea.

Thanks for your service.

Thanks for the words - I might pick your brain more as my time gets closer to come back to CAL since we're close in seniority. Hopefully our contract will be robust at that point as well.

 

[Hvy]

However crew scheduling would deduct the 2:40 to show legality and keep the computer happy for future scheduling.

That doesn't figure in at all. Crew desk has no idea who slept when...bunk time counts as flight time for scheduling purposes. 32/7 for FARs and at our airline 48 hours contractual off after a Pacific crossing.

The longer trips from the west coast (SYD, PVG, HKG) are less tiring than the shorter ones to KIX or NRT because you get more time in the bunk and usually have more time at your destination to play and catch up on your sleep.

 

[av8instyle]

Av8 - you need to get a job with the Alaska Reserves flying the F-22. If long flight times are bringing you down, you'll have plenty of 0.5's and 0.6's flying BFM (that is seriously the standard in the Raptor flying BFM). 15K of JP-8 in 30 minutes - holy shizzle!!!

I wouldn't mind bending your ear about the F-22 program if you have a few minutes sometime. I have some reservations and I believe someone like yourself may be able to clear them up.

 

[Scrapdog]

I wouldn't mind bending your ear about the F-22 program if you have a few minutes sometime. I have some reservations and I believe someone like yourself may be able to clear them up.

I'm glad to listen/help anytime.

 

[av8instyle]

I'm glad to listen/help anytime.

Check your PM's.

 

[ACWild]

If you want to look like you're 75 when you're 50, pure Int'l is great.

That's something that I don't understand. I'm basically flying three times a month on three day trips and much better rested with the bunk bed. I suppose all that time at home getting nagged at could possibly premature my aging...

 

[bubbers44]

Hvy, I was just told the scheduling computer automatically on a 3 man crew takes one third of the block time away to keep everybody below 8 hrs and legal for future scheduling.

 

[igneousy2]

Hvy, I was just told the scheduling computer automatically on a 3 man crew takes one third of the block time away to keep everybody below 8 hrs and legal for future scheduling.

I don't see how that would be legal. If you're a required crewmember then you're a required crew member period. You can log it and it counts toward all of the limitations. There is nowhere in the regs that says that the Captain HAS to let you sleep. If the Captain feels the situation warrants it, he/she could keep all 3-4 pilots on the flight deck for the entire flight if he/she chose to. There is never a time when you could say - oops sorry - i'm in rest - handle the engine fire over the arctic ocean with the other first officer.

If scheduling was deducting 1/3rd of the flight time, I would not accept an assignment that would not be legal without their deductions - and - I would definetly pitch a fit to the FAA if need be.

good luck

 

[Hvy]

Hvy, I was just told the scheduling computer automatically on a 3 man crew takes one third of the block time away to keep everybody below 8 hrs and legal for future scheduling.

And how many times have you and your company busted 32/7 in the past year using this thought process? Are you saying that you can be scheduled for 43 hours in 7 days if you have a 3 man crew?

It doesn't work that way.