?? for those that have flown major dom and intl.

[av8instyle]

I fly for Alaska, and my background is a commuter that did strictly day turns, and military fighters. So my question is: what's the big deal about international trips? All I do at Alaska is mostly turns. The longest trip we have is a 4 day, which I never bid. The only international flying we do is Mexico and Canada, so we don't do any REAL intl flying. The longest leg I have ever flown is ANC-SEA, 3.5 hrs btb. I have my first "long haul" trip tomorrow. It's an ANC-LAX non stop. I'm not looking forward to it. So what is it that I am missing regarding real international flying? I truly know nothing about it other than it seems like a long time in the seat for a few extra bucks an hour. What is it that you like about it more than domestic?

BTW, in no way is this intended as a flame. I truly know little about it and am curious what you guys like about it.

 

[Diesel-9]

To each his own. Seems they either love it or hate it. ANC/LAX is nothing though compared to MSP/NRT etc.

 

[av8instyle]

To each his own. Seems they either love it or hate it. ANC/LAX is nothing though compared to MSP/NRT etc.

ANC-LAX is nothing compared to about any long haul, hence part of the reason for my question.

 

[Heavy Set]

The rules are different. There is no 30 in 7 rule flying International, so you can back up trips and fly 12 straight and get it all over with for the month if you want. Also, anything over 8 hours of flying means another crewmember must be there, which means crew rest. If you can't sleep on a plane, then it could be tough on you. Hotels are usually better due to security concerns, and per diem can be higher because of the weak dollar.

 

[talespin]

I fly for Alaska, and my background is a commuter that did strictly day turns, and military fighters. So my question is: what's the big deal about international trips? All I do at Alaska is mostly turns. The longest trip we have is a 4 day, which I never bid. The only international flying we do is Mexico and Canada, so we don't do any REAL intl flying. The longest leg I have ever flown is ANC-SEA, 3.5 hrs btb. I have my first "long haul" trip tomorrow. It's an ANC-LAX non stop. I'm not looking forward to it. So what is it that I am missing regarding real international flying? I truly know nothing about it other than it seems like a long time in the seat for a few extra bucks an hour. What is it that you like about it more than domestic?

It all about the family and being home as much as possible. The Intl trips are more productive than domestic flying. The pay is generally better from a wide body/mid body verse a narrow body stand point. The bad side is being stuck in the tube for a lot of hours.

 

[SWA GUY]

I just did BWI-LAX. 6 hours in the seat is not fun for me.

MSP-NRT? No thanks!

 

[say again]

It all depends on what you want. I, for one, enjoy the shorter trips. I get a little restless after the 4th hr.
Some reasons why people like the int'l flying (from others): more pay, no "quick" turns when already an hr behind, to see the world, bigger planes (usually), after 8 hrs it's nap time, better food (maybe), etc. Im sure people have other good reasons, but these are a few I remember being told.

 

[LandGreen]

I just did BWI-LAX. 6 hours in the seat is not fun for me.

MSP-NRT? No thanks!

most int'l pilots wouldn't like flying 6 hours in a 737 cockpit either! as someone said before, anything over 8 means an extra crewmember, so you really only might sit in seat 6 hours. working in a 767, 777, 747 where you can stand up and stretch, go to a true vertical crew rest facility and sleep for a few hours or enjoy a biz class meal.

best part of int'l is sched. 3 day trips with only 2 legs worth 24 plus hours that are commutable on both ends. 24 hours in a big europe city, or australia isn't bad either!

however, especially these days there are some pilots that don't want anything to do with that kind of flying and actually still enjoy the mulitple up/downs each day. that is the beauty of having choices!

 

[Old School 737]

working in a 767, 777, 747 where you can stand up and stretch, go to a true vertical crew rest facility and sleep for a few hours or enjoy a biz class meal.

Don't you mean horizontal? I don't know about you but I can't sleep so hot standing up!

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I just got back from a Newark-Honolulu-Newark 3-day. 10.5 over and 9.5 back. I'm totally exhausted and flying for a long time gets boring, but the layovers are great. It's hard to complain when you're sitting on the beach in Waikiki enjoying the sun. There are advantages and disadvantages to all types of flying.

 

[LandGreen]

Don't you mean horizontal? I don't know about you but I can't sleep so hot standing up!

oops! yeah, horizontal!

 

[AA717driver]

If you want to look like you're 75 when you're 50, pure Int'l is great.

I always tried to do a mix. A whole month of Int'l. wiped me out.

If you're at AS, I wouldn't leave for UAL or Delta just to do international. TC

 

[scrub]

I do it for the chicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[av8instyle]

If you want to look like you're 75 when you're 50, pure Int'l is great.

I always tried to do a mix. A whole month of Int'l. wiped me out.

If you're at AS, I wouldn't leave for UAL or Delta just to do international. TC

No, not planning on that. I've made my bed..been here 6 years. I was just wondering if I'm really missing anything. I'm a year or two max from an upgrade, live in base, guard unit in base, happy with the schedules. I just wish our pay would come back. I doubt we'll be getting widebodies anytime soon, but I also doubt I could go anywhere else and be slated to retire #7.

 

[b747dogg]

International Women!!!

 

[Hvy]

I just did BWI-LAX. 6 hours in the seat is not fun for me.

MSP-NRT? No thanks!

You don't spend anymore time in the seat going SFO-HKG then you do going BWI-LAX but you get paid for 12 hours which includes 6 hours in the bunk. Plus the aircraft is much more comfortable and as a bonus you're in HKG (a wonderful city). Having done both I MUCH prefer the international stuff.

 

[Hvy]

Don't you mean horizontal? I don't know about you but I can't sleep so hot standing up!

Fly 6 hour trips in a 737 and you will!

 

[IAHERJ]

Flying the long haul stuff in a confortable plane with pilots and flight attendants you enjoy working with can be alot of fun. You really get to know the people behind the cockpit door on these trips. At most major carriers, the food is pretty good, the layover hotels are excellent and the chance to see cities you would probably not otherwise visit is definately a plus. that being said I enjoy a mix each month of both Domestic 757 and the international 757/767 stuff. Making the leap to the 777 most likely and will do 100% international with the shortest leg being EWR-LGW as a 2 man trip blocked under 8 hours each way. I will let you know then how the ultra long haul stuff is.

IAHERJ

 

[PITA]

Intl women

International Women!!!

Turn them upside down and they look just about the same.....

 

[skypine27]

Ya.

You can do 8 hours in the seat, with 1 TO / 1 LND (or 0 if it's not your leg) from EWR/JFK to Europe, or you can do nearly 8 hours of flying from MDW to etc, back to MDW, back to etc, and having to definitely work for it.

Again, there are the arguments about a 50 year old INTL pilot looking like he's 70 (my dad flew for Pan Am, and that was certainly the case), but those guys typically flew a LOT harder than "intl" these days...

The "right" answer is what you and your airline does. You a 777 FO for CAL, an MD-11 FO for FedEX, a 747 FO for UPS, then YES, INTL is great and the last best job left in aviation.

You a 737 guy for CAL, a 737 guy for SWA, a CRJ guy for SkyWest, a 737 guy for AWA etc, then NO WAY, Intl makes you look old and stupid, domestic all the way!

It's all Dependant on what seat you're in....

 

[wmuflyguy]

A related question.

When your flying with more than 2 pilots, how often do you switch from flying to resting? Is it like every couple of hours someone takes a break?

Also, how do you guys log your flight time? I know the CA probably logs the entire flight as PIC, but as an FO do you only log the time actually spent in the seat?

 

[glasspilot1]

I always tried to do a mix. A whole month of Int'l. wiped me out.

That's one thing I liked at TWA. No separate Int and Dom divisions. Northwest and American still have separate status with this. To me that would be just a big roadblock.

At TWA as a 767 F/O I could bid Int one month, Dom the next and Reserve the next. I was running a crash pad in NY for a couple of years so having this flexibility was great. I could enjoy Int for a couple months and then update my landings with a month of Domestic. Then bid Reserve to catch up with crash pad business (back in the days when reserves flew one trip a month).

 

[bubbers44]

We had all three in cockpit for 1st and last half hr so on a 9 hr flight with 8 cruising hrs took one break of 2:40 each.

Nobody cares about how much time to log at that time in your career. I would guess you wouldn't count the resting time but can pretty much guaranty nobody breaks it down. They all log 9 hrs.

 

[bubbers44]

However crew scheduling would deduct the 2:40 to show legality and keep the computer happy for future scheduling.

 

[glasspilot1]

When your flying with more than 2 pilots, how often do you switch from flying to resting? Is it like every couple of hours someone takes a break?

Also, how do you guys log your flight time? I know the CA probably logs the entire flight as PIC, but as an FO do you only log the time actually spent in the seat?

At TWA after gear up the relief pilot (Eater) would add up the flight plan segment times. Then copy them to the Capt and F/Os flt plan (unless they wanted to do it themselves).

Then talk to the Capt; how much time to 30 minutes to landing? Divide that time by 3. That's the rest time each gets. Usually the least desirable rest is the first (no-ones tired yet!), so guess who gets it? The Eater. If the F/O was the pilot flying the "good" Capts would ask him what rest he preferred. I liked the last one so I was fresh for landing.

To your second question; the capt logs PIC, both F/O's log second in command.

 

[pianoman]

At TWA after gear up the relief pilot (Eater) would add up the flight plan segment times. Then copy them to the Capt and F/Os flt plan (unless they wanted to do it themselves).

Then talk to the Capt; how much time to 30 minutes to landing? Divide that time by 3. That's the rest time each gets. Usually the least desirable rest is the first (no-ones tired yet!), so guess who gets it? The Eater. If the F/O was the pilot flying the "good" Capts would ask him what rest he preferred. I liked the last one so I was fresh for landing.

To your second question; the capt logs PIC, both F/O's log second in command.

That's pretty much exactly what we do at CAL, however there's only one master flight plan.

Also for the super long stuff we take breaks in tandem, so you end up dividing by 2 and sometimes you get around 6 hours or so to sleep in the back or watch movies.

At first I thought it was difficult but it really is no more tiring than shooting 5 approaches in marginal weather with a 500 hour pilot trying to kill you. Actually it's a lot LESS tiring.

I've really enjoyed both so I am glad I have the choice to go back and forth a bit in the future.


----And nothing beats getting lit at an Irish bar in Frankfurt listening to a German band covering Johnny Cash tunes watching a chick who looks like she could seriously kick my ass dance after eating a kick-ass steak dinner the captain wouldn't let us pay for. (Thanks again Dave B)---

 

[Scrapdog]

That's pretty much exactly what we do at CAL, however there's only one master flight plan.

Also for the super long stuff we take breaks in tandem, so you end up dividing by 2 and sometimes you get around 6 hours or so to sleep in the back or watch movies.

At first I thought it was difficult but it really is no more tiring than shooting 5 approaches in marginal weather with a 500 hour pilot trying to kill you. Actually it's a lot LESS tiring.

I've really enjoyed both so I am glad I have the choice to go back and forth a bit in the future.


----And nothing beats getting lit at an Irish bar in Frankfurt listening to a German band covering Johnny Cash tunes watching a chick who looks like she could seriously kick my ass dance after eating a kick-ass steak dinner the captain wouldn't let us pay for. (Thanks again Dave B)---

Piano - what was your DOH at CAL? I take it you're on the 756??

Edit - disregard - I just got my head out of my rump and read 777 by your profile. How do you like the 777 (as in relation to the 756)?

 

[Scrapdog]

No, not planning on that. I've made my bed..been here 6 years. I was just wondering if I'm really missing anything. I'm a year or two max from an upgrade, live in base, guard unit in base, happy with the schedules. I just wish our pay would come back. I doubt we'll be getting widebodies anytime soon, but I also doubt I could go anywhere else and be slated to retire #7.

Av8 - you need to get a job with the Alaska Reserves flying the F-22. If long flight times are bringing you down, you'll have plenty of 0.5's and 0.6's flying BFM (that is seriously the standard in the Raptor flying BFM). 15K of JP-8 in 30 minutes - holy shizzle!!!

 

[pianoman]

Scrap- I was hired 1/07- got the 777 to start with so I really don't have the 756 to compare it to. Friends say that the 76 trips are pretty senior.

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrap- I was hired 1/07- got the 777 to start with so I really don't have the 756 to compare it to. Friends say that the 76 trips are pretty senior.

Here's my beef - I was hired 12/06 on the 73. I'm currently on MLOA and will be until approx Sept/Oct of '08. Based on the last bid, I'm pretty sure by the time I come back I can comfortably hold a line on the 756, and possibly hold a line on the 777. Definetly want to maximize my time/pay as a commuter - hence my asking!! Trying to figure out if I should bid the 756 or 777 when I return to CAL...Of course I know I've got plenty of time to ponder.