DUI and the FAA

[viking737]

Friend of mine got pulled over and charged with DUI last week. Refused the breath test and was held for 24 hrs.
Had another incident about 10 years ago, was aquitted at trial.
Is his medical in jeopardy?
I had always been told the FAA thinks 2 incidents in 5 years is bad, but he is kind of worried about it.
Anybody in the know?

 

[Scrapdog]

Friend of mine got pulled over and charged with DUI last week. Refused the breath test and was held for 24 hrs.
Had another incident about 10 years ago, was aquitted at trial.
Is his medical in jeopardy?
I had always been told the FAA thinks 2 incidents in 5 years is bad, but he is kind of worried about it.
Anybody in the know?

Sounds like this is a trend item with your buddy. I think there are some deeper issues with his drinking and driving than worrying about his medical...i.e. hitting a family and killing them all because he's drunk and behind the wheel. uke:

 

[radarlove]

"A friend", huh?

 

[Spooky 2]

There is a ton of information on the web (Google)regarding this issue. Sounds as if he will loose his DL for sure and probably have a "admin" issue on his medical regardless of whether he gets a conviction on the DUI or not. The guy sounds like he is on a slippery slope if he plans on making aviation a career beyond his next trial.

I believe that a refusal to take a FST is an automatic one year suspension of the DL in most states. I don't know that you have to take it right there along side the road, but you do have to take there or back at the station.

 

[PonchoMan]

Don't worry the union will get your job back.:nuts:

 

[Spooky 2]

Don't worry the union will get your job back.:nuts:

Stupid reply to a very serious situation with career defining elements all over it. The "union" will not be the least bit involved assuming it did not happen while at work.

 

[dickburns]

All states laws differ greatly, some are very liberal with their dui laws and others are very conservative. Refusing a field sobriety test in many states does not count as an alcohol test "refusal." Most field sobriety tests are just an aid for the police officer in providing written evidence in his field report saying they suspect you may have been under the influence. The actual test that is going to determine if you really are under or over the legal limit is the breathalyzer or blood test. Refusing a breathalizer test is considered a test refusal and that is where many times the license suspension comes into play. I have a friend, a very close friend, not a "friend" that is dealing with a similar problem but it is his first offense. I've been in close contact with him mainly out of curiosity as to how his state handled him. He was injured in a car accident and taken to a hospital because of the injuries, there he was cited for dui but never had blood drawn. He could not refuse or even fail a breathalyzer because in his state they can only administer the test at the police station. Being injured basically stopped him from that. He said in his state had he failed the breath test it was an automatic 30 day drivers license revocation, if he refused the breath test it was a 180 suspension on the dl. Then FAR 61.15 comes into play. DUIs are a very touchy subject indeed and can start unreal arguments and battles between individuals. I dont want to start that at all as I did in previous threads but if the unfortnate happens you need to know your rights and what the consequences can be so that you can deal with the issue.

I believe if the FAA sees that you had a second moving violation involving alcohol, regardless of the time span between the offenses they typically want you to go through a an alcohol abuse evaluation. They may skip the evaluation completely and order you to go through a rehab program. A second offense to the FAA even over a long period of time shows repition and possible alcoholism but it is not a death sentence on your certificate. Second offense when trying to get another job may be a whole nother issue with a company but I have no idea about that.

I think but correct me if I am wrong that AOPA and many pilot unions have great drug and alchol liasons that can help guide you through the dealings of this subject with the FAA.

Go to aviationmedicine.com and use the search function, type in DUI, you will get some links with great info on first and second time offenses and other issues concerning dui and the faa.

Hope it helps!

 

[AV80R]

Friend of mine...refused breath test...Had another incident about 10 years ago, was aquitted at trial...Is his medical in jeopardy?

I thought that is someone refuses a breathalyzer test (or a blood test) he or she is “admitting” to DUI as far as sentencing goes. Am I wrong?

If so, the FAA will need to be notified for sure.

You need to stop drinking!

Sorry, I meant your friend…

 

[loewinbrau]

My reg book is a bit out of date, but Part 61 does not change much, and it applies to ALL airmen:

61.16
Refusal to submit to an alcohol test.

(Paraphased) A refusal to submit to a test to indicate the percentage of alcohol in the blood, when requested by a law enforcemrnt officer....is grounds for:
a) Denial of an application for any certificate.....
b) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating or authorization issued under this part.

I think your friend is hosed...

 

[Way2Broke]

Hopefully your friend learned a valuable lesson here. Here is what I think you are looking for.

As far as the reporting requirements are concerned the FAA is not necessarily concerned with if your convicted or not, what they are interested in is called a MVA. A MVA under 61.15 is defined as:

(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.

Since your friend refused to blow I am assuming that his/her driver's license was automatically suspended. This means that your friend should fill out the form found on the FAA's webpage found (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...8AA3DA48F06E5&jsessionid=f8302abc3f20d1032501) and mail it in to fulfill the reporting requirements of 61.15. Now.... this is important. If your friend is convicted they have to fill out the same form checking the appropriate boxes and mail it in. These are considered two seperate MVA's but since they are related do not apply to the 2 MVAs in 3 years rule. I think certified mail is a must here. As long as your friend has not has 2 unrelated MVAs in 3 years their pilot's license is safe. Assuming that they send in the reports. Failing to report can result in enforcement action, up suspension of all certificates.

Now for the medical. This is a tricky question. The FAA typically gives pilots one get out of jail free card. The question on the medical application is "History of (1) any convictions involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) history of any convictions or administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation, or revocation or driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or a rehabilitation program"



IF your friends license was suspended 10 years ago, or if they had to attend some counter attack classes in order to get the sentence reduced to something besides DUI, OR they took his/her license as part of a administrative action (usually the DMV control's license's not the court) then your friend should have been checking yes to this box for the last 10 years. And has all sorts of problems on his/her hands. If none of that occurred then this would be considered the 1st conviction and/or administrative action and would fall under the "FAA gives you one get out of jail free card."

I agree with the trend that your friend is setting being worrisome. But I don't know your friend so I can not talk about what may be best for him/her.

 

[Way2Broke]

My reg book is a bit out of date, but Part 61 does not change much, and it applies to ALL airmen:

61.16
Refusal to submit to an alcohol test.

(Paraphased) A refusal to submit to a test to indicate the percentage of alcohol in the blood, when requested by a law enforcemrnt officer....is grounds for:
a) Denial of an application for any certificate.....
b) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating or authorization issued under this part.

I think your friend is hosed...

61.16 does not apply to Motor Vehicle Actions. This reg is related to if you are asked to submit to an alcohol test while in operation acting as a crewmember. If you were to post the entire reg you will find that you left out some very important parts.

"§ 61.16 Refusal to submit to an alcohol test or to furnish test results.
A refusal to submit to a test to indicate the percentage by weight of alcohol in the blood, when requested by a law enforcement officer in accordance with § 91.17(c) of this chapter, or a refusal to furnish or authorize the release of the test results requested by the Administrator in accordance with § 91.17(c) or (d) of this chapter, is grounds for:
(a) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that refusal; or
(b) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

It is imprtant to reference 91.17 which states

"(c) A crewmember shall do the following:
{New-2006-15 (c)(1) revised June 21, 2006, effective July 21, 2006}
(1) On request of a law enforcement officer, submit to a test to indicate the alcohol concentration in the blood or breath, when--
(i) The law enforcement officer is authorized under State or local law to conduct the test or to have the test conducted; and
(ii) The law enforcement officer is requesting submission to the test to investigate a suspected violation of State or local law governing the same or substantially similar conduct prohibited by paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section."

The important part here is the work crewmember.

 

[Way2Broke]

Oh.... when I was flight instructing I had a student get arrested for a 3rd DUI. It was his 2nd in 2 years and he was picking up a hooker that ended up being a cop. Needless to say the guys medical was toast. He even made the front page of the papers. Believe it or not the guy was a good guy and loved airplanes. Unfortunate to see alcoholism interfere with someones dreams. I guess he was lucky in the fact that he flew for fun, instead of to pay his bills like most of us.

 

[PCL_128]

Tell your friend that looking for advice on such a serious matter on Flightinfo is a big mistake. If he's an ALPA member, then have him contact his HIMS Chairman and then his ALPA Contract Administrator (attorney) for advice on how to handle the matter. If he's not an ALPA member, then tell him to contact a reputable aviation attorney. The money spent will be well worth it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Had another incident about 10 years ago, was aquitted at trial.

That means no conviction, right....

His medical will not be revoked, but that's likely the least of his friends worries.

 

[Way2Broke]

That means no conviction, right....

His medical will not be revoked, but that's likely the least of his friends worries.

Again, the FAA does now care only about a conviction. The license suspension etc. covered above is the kicker.

There is nothing a aviation attorney can do about your medical. I would refer all medical problems to Quay Snyder with Virtual Flight Surgeons at www.aviationmedicine.com he helped start the HIMS program. There are solutions here if it gets to that point.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

You should tell that piece of trash to stop driving drunk and forget about a career in aviation. I had a baby cousin killed by a drunken piece of garbage like your "friend". I don't know if his medical is in jeopardy, but his standing as a responsible, meaningful member of society has already been trashed.

Friend of mine got pulled over and charged with DUI last week. Refused the breath test and was held for 24 hrs.
Had another incident about 10 years ago, was aquitted at trial.
Is his medical in jeopardy?
I had always been told the FAA thinks 2 incidents in 5 years is bad, but he is kind of worried about it.
Anybody in the know?

 

[Way2Broke]

Bob, you make a good point. Here are some other things your friend should consider. Its a widespread national problem that is above all preventable.

There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

The 16,885 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes during 2005 represent an average
of one alcohol-related fatality every 31 minutes.

In 2004, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program
estimated that over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics. This is an arrest rate of 1 for every 139 licensed drivers in the United States.

In 2005, 21 percent of the children age 14 and younger who were killed in motor
vehicle crashes were killed in alcohol-related crashes.

The rate of alcohol involvement in fatal crashes is more than 3 times higher
at night as during the day. For all crashes, the alcohol involvement rate is 5 times higher at night.

For fatal crashes occurring from midnight to 3:00 AM, 77 percent involved alcohol in 2003. The next most dangerous time period for alcohol-related crash deaths were 9 PM to midnight (64 percent of fatal crashes involved alcohol), followed by 3 AM to 6 AM (60 percent of fatal crashes involved alcohol).

About three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash at some time in their lives.

DWI statistics regarding motorcycle accidents show that about fifty percent of all motorcycle fatalities are the result of alcohol related accidents.

 

[27 driver]

Tell your friend that looking for advice on such a serious matter on Flightinfo is a big mistake. If he's an ALPA member, then have him contact his HIMS Chairman and then his ALPA Contract Administrator (attorney) for advice on how to handle the matter. If he's not an ALPA member, then tell him to contact a reputable aviation attorney. The money spent will be well worth it.

This is the best advice he could be given. Don't talk to anyone or do anything until he consults a good aviation lawyer. It could make or break his case. The clock is ticking and he only has 60 days to report this to his friendly FED. He needs to get of his wallet and hire a good lawyer.
:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

You should tell that piece of trash to stop driving drunk and forget about a career in aviation. I had a baby cousin killed by a drunken piece of garbage like your "friend". I don't know if his medical is in jeopardy, but his standing as a responsible, meaningful member of society has already been trashed.

Remember, alcoholism is a disease. If you've never known an alcoholic, then you can't really understand the situation. It's easy to just say "stop driving drunk," but alcoholics simply have trouble stopping drinking, and once you're drunk your judgment is impaired. His friend needs some real help, not people telling him that he's a "piece of garbage."

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Cancer is a disease. Alcoholism is petty selfishness, and immaturity, nothing more. While I agree that these weak-minded fools need help, it's a pathetic excuse to call it a disease.

Remember, alcoholism is a disease. If you've never known an alcoholic, then you can't really understand the situation. It's easy to just say "stop driving drunk," but alcoholics simply have trouble stopping drinking, and once you're drunk your judgment is impaired. His friend needs some real help, not people telling him that he's a "piece of garbage."