DUI and the FAA

[Way2Broke]

Cancer is a disease. Alcoholism is petty selfishness, and immaturity, nothing more. While I agree that these weak-minded fools need help, it's a pathetic excuse to call it a disease.

Hmmm.... thousands of doctors will disagree with you there. I understand your anger but if you do not allow someone to get help then your just being part of the problem. However, just because you have a history of DUIs does not automatically make you a alcoholic. See the statistic above that 1 in 139 drivers receive a DUI every year. Like I stated above, this is a national social problem.

 

[Scrapdog]

Cancer is a disease. Alcoholism is petty selfishness, and immaturity, nothing more. While I agree that these weak-minded fools need help, it's a pathetic excuse to call it a disease.

Bob, unfortunately PCL is correct - alcoholism has been documented as a disease. It's an addiction and that's why there are numerous support groups and programs to get help and break that addiction.

However, I do agree with you and the driving while drunk. There is absolutely no excuse to get behind the wheel when you're tubed, especially if you have a trend of doing it - like viking's "friend" (yeah right). When you're f*cked up and you make a concious decision to drive - then you should have no pity taken upon you when you either kill yourself and/or yourself and some other innocent victim.

My .02.

 

[PCL_128]

Cancer is a disease. Alcoholism is petty selfishness, and immaturity, nothing more. While I agree that these weak-minded fools need help, it's a pathetic excuse to call it a disease.

Your anger is blinding you to reality. I've known alcoholics. My grandfather was an alcoholic. Trust me, it's a disease that they struggle with for the rest of their lives.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Wow, I don't any have DUI's, have a degree in Aerospace Engineering, and fly for a major airline. And *I'm* the one who's blind to reality. Ok Pea-knuckle, since you said so, I'll trust you...

Your anger is blinding you to reality. I've known alcoholics. My grandfather was an alcoholic. Trust me, it's a disease that they struggle with for the rest of their lives.

 

[Way2Broke]

Wow, I don't any have DUI's, have a degree in Aerospace Engineering, and fly for a major airline. And *I'm* the one who's blind to reality. Ok Pea-knuckle, since you said so, I'll trust you...

Hes not asking you to trust him, he is asking you to trust doctors. This is not about you being a Pilot, its about you not being a Doctor.

Alcoholism: Define



Alcoholism can take on a variety of definitions, depending on the context in which it is being discussed. In common and historical usage, alcoholism typically constitutes any condition that results in the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, despite negative personal and social consequences. Medical definitions describe alcoholism as a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors any of which may precipitate a persistent difficulty in controlling overall alcohol consumption. More generally, alcoholism may also point to concerns such as a preoccupation with or compulsion toward the consumption of alcohol, and/or an impaired ability to recognize the overall negative effects of excessive alcohol consumption. Although not all of these definitions specify current and on-going use of alcohol as a qualifier, some do, as well as remarking on the long-term effects of consistently heavy alcohol use, including dependence and symptoms of withdrawal.
While the ingestion of alcohol is, by definition, necessary to develop alcoholism, the use of alcohol does not predict the development of alcoholism. The degree, quantity, frequency and regularity of alcohol consumption influencing the development of alcoholism varies greatly from person to person. In addition, although the biological mechanisms underpinning alcoholism are uncertain, some risk factors, including social environment, emotional health and genetic predisposition, have been identified.

 

[dickburns]

I knew this would blow up into something huge. Sacamano needs to realize that alcohol affects other peoples lives too. I'm very sorry about your cousin, its awful. We've all lost people and and know people who have been hurt due to the unfortnate effects of booze.

The guy that started this thread had a legit question about getting some help for a friend or for himself, whatever. Throw him some advice so he can get on his feet, I'm sure he realizes the mistake he made, as long as no one was hurt he can learn from the stupid mistake and move on from it.

You need to realize its a disease, many people are genetically susceptible to addiction and have big troubles stopping the habit.

 

[acarpe3448]

Stupid reply to a very serious situation with career defining elements all over it. The "union" will not be the least bit involved assuming it did not happen while at work.

Why would you say that is a stupid reply. I went through a situation very much like this! I did not get a DUI but I did have that same problem with the bottle that he mentioned. The first person I contacted was our ALPA rep on the assistance committee. Alpa was invloved through the entire process and continues to be today! It is absolutly the best program you will ever see. This program has a very high success rate for getting clean and staying clean like high 90% I think! Lots of work, lots of accountability, but you can continue to fly and have a great career. And for the original posters question, there was a person in my group that is an airline pilot who got two DUIs in 2 days. Still flying!

 

[Diesel]

Great now because the rest of us are very careful and don't drink and drive, this guy can go get a DUI and blame it on alcholism. Those with problems get help or have friends that help them find help.

A DUI is inexcusable and should be treated as the same as showing up for a flight drunk.

Way to go buddy you just blew up your career for a second time.

 

[acarpe3448]

You should tell that piece of trash to stop driving drunk and forget about a career in aviation. I had a baby cousin killed by a drunken piece of garbage like your "friend". I don't know if his medical is in jeopardy, but his standing as a responsible, meaningful member of society has already been trashed.

Your reply to this post shows what an ignorant a-hole you are! I dont know if you are living in denial or what! As a group I would say that pilots are among some of the most active drinkers on the planet. It seems like 90% of my trips end with the crew wanting to go drink beer. I have seen hundreds of posts on here braging about drinking stories. I myself went through this program and have not had a drop of alcohol for nearly 5 years. Ask yourself how many times you have gotten in your car with more than a .10! That is not falling down drunk by any means! Next thing you make some mistake in your car and whamo you are now a disgrace to society! You are very narrow minded and have no meaningful understanding of this situation except that you suffered a loss! Grow up and read about the HIMS program! And by the way, you have a real great avtar to go along with your obvious hatred of those who drink to much. Real good choice.

 

[Spooky 2]

Why would you say that is a stupid reply. I went through a situation very much like this! I did not get a DUI but I did have that same problem with the bottle that he mentioned. The first person I contacted was our ALPA rep on the assistance committee. Alpa was invloved through the entire process and continues to be today! It is absolutly the best program you will ever see. This program has a very high success rate for getting clean and staying clean like high 90% I think! Lots of work, lots of accountability, but you can continue to fly and have a great career. And for the original posters question, there was a person in my group that is an airline pilot who got two DUIs in 2 days. Still flying!

Perhaps a hipshot reply on my part. Yes, I know that the association has a number of sucessful appraoches to this serious matter and I congratulate you if it has been a part of your recovery process.
My comments were more in line with the traffic stop and subsequent refusal to take a FST or a brethalyser test. I may be wrong but I don't think ALPA, APA, step up to defend what in many states is criminal conduct??

 

[acarpe3448]

Perhaps a hipshot reply on my part. Yes, I know that the association has a number of sucessful appraoches to this serious matter and I congratulate you if it has been a part of your recovery process.
My comments were more in line with the traffic stop and subsequent refusal to take a FST or a brethalyser test. I may be wrong but I don't think ALPA, APA, step up to defend what in many states is criminal conduct??

That is true!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I'd say a part... maybe a small part, but... of the problem is the nearly nonexistent public transportation in most of the country.
It doesn't help that in the city I used to live in, there was a campaign to get everyone to walk to the bars in the summer so they wouldn't drive drunk. What did the cops do? Started ticketing everyone for public drunkeness for walking home from the bar..... so guess what everyone started doing again. It wasn't avoiding the bars.

 

[Oh-ryan]

my advice to your friend:

Do nothing and allow the FAA to take away his medical/license. To do anything else is an act of selfishness to the highest degree. He's a menace to everything in the sky (yes, birds too).

 

[Spooky 2]

Curious as to what the law enforcement folks are telling him. I assume he has a court date for some sort of plea? How about keeping this thread open and letting us know how things work out. Don't expect any miracles but you never know. I don't suppose you would like to tell us what state this happened in?

 

[viking737]

I will let you know what happens.
He has a good lawyer who told him to worry about the DMV when that comes in a few months,
right now the FAA is his main concern.
Thanks to all that came up with serious replies. For those with flippant remarks, please do everybody a favor and just stay off this thread.

 

[Spooky 2]

I will let you know what happens.
He has a good lawyer who told him to worry about the DMV when that comes in a few months,
right now the FAA is his main concern.
Thanks to all that came up with serious replies. For those with flippant remarks, please do everybody a favor and just stay off this thread.

Check of course and follow the attorney's advise, but I don't think the 60 window starts until after a conviction??

 

[AV80R]

Bob, unfortunately PCL is correct - alcoholism has been documented as a disease. It's an addiction and that's why there are numerous support groups and programs to get help and break that addiction.

I know it is classified as a disease but is it possible that in today’s PC environment pretty much everything gets classified as a disease? I believe the latest "disease" is computer game addiction? I mean where does it stop?

I definitely see why Bob is upset and I agree with him. At the very least, anyone who's been convicted of hurting/killing someone in a dui incident should never/ever be allowed to drive again.

 

[Way2Broke]

Check of course and follow the attorney's advise, but I don't think the 60 window starts until after a conviction??

Sorry if I was confusing in my post covering this. Anytime a Motor Vehicle Action (MVA) occurs you have to file a report. A conviction is only one of three things that are considered a Motor Vehicle Action. Most states do a "administrative" suspension when you are charged. That suspension would require a report. If you are convicted that would require a report. If the courts suspend your license that requires a report. Do you see how one DUI could turn into 3 reports?

(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.

 

[414Flyer]

An administrative suspension is an automatic process that starts based on the time of the initial arrest, it does not wait for a conviction to start. Administrative suspensions are very hard to forestall, since unless there is something majorly wrong, its going to happen.

But like others have said, its not hard at all to blow .10 or .08, it is a lot easier than you think.

Dont take the field sobriety test, it only hurt you and its very possible to fail it without a drop of alcohol in your system. Take the breathalyzer at the station, have a lawyer you can call that will come watch it and take an hour to arrive.

 

[Way2Broke]

If your friend works for a carrier that gos to Canada they may find this very interesting.


"Canada regards DUI / DWI as an extremely serious offense. A conviction for Driving Under the Influence (DUI or DWI) will qualify you as a member of the Inadmissible Class. Those non-Canadian citizens with such convictions will not be allowed to enter Canada freely.
The Inadmissible status can be removed, after a period of many years, by applying for a Minister's Approval of Rehabilitation. Although, you can visit Canada before the Inadmissible status is removed. This requires you apply for a Temporary Resident Permit. The Temporary Resident Permit allows you to visit Canada for a single purpose or for a limited period. This process requires completion of forms and paying fees.
Persons may apply for a Temporary Resident Permit, Approval of Rehabilitation, or Permission to Return to Canada either in Canada or at one these Canadian visa offices in the United States."