Alpa President Starting To Show Signs Of Leadership

[luckytohaveajob]

Your anger is misplaced. You should be directing your anger at a man (Darth Prater), not an organization. ALPA is only as strong as the people who volunteer to keep it going. When the wrong people are elected to run the organization, then things aren't going to run smoothly. That's not an inherent problem with the Association, it's just a problem with the people.

We are in agreement concerning Darth Prater. But the reason I believe the organization is flawed is because it can not be changed.

Try to replace Darth Prater through a recall. It can not be done. How many National Presidents have been replaced in ALPA history? They are not just elected they are groomed for the position. Even though Prater was chosen by the pilots he was groomed upon his arrival to tow the party line.

None from the outside can change the party line. The EVP's and influential MEC's set the tone, no one else period. That's why the organization is in decline. There is no freedom of speech, freedom to change what is wrong, or any ability change the organization away from the power brokers who do not represent the pilots, other than disillusion.

Yes we need a union. We need a national union that represents the pilots interests not the organizations interests. That is not happening today in ALPA. And it will not happen in the future with ALPA.

ALPA is not an organic organization adapting to the needs of the individual pilots. ALPA exists for ALPA's sake not the pilots.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Darth Prater has got to go. Lets see it happen because I got $100 says it won't in the next year or two.

 

[Flopgut]

What exactly are his selfish intrests?

You can control your followership... and you can only influence the leadership...

As a recent CAL upgrade, I can tell you that without a doubt, Darth Prater's own self interest is seeing to it that his contemporaries, those he will represent as a first priority, see a huge windfall! There are those senior members that he cares about, and then there is everybody else. If you're in the left seat and have 20 years seniority and are facing retirement, the only thing you care about is staying right where you. There is NO other issue really and Prater knows this. They won't fight off overseas control, cabotage, or anthing else! They'll use those things to their own benefit.

He's taking care of who he cares about, while you're falling right into his plan.

Guys: Call your union and ask whether or not financial analysis of age 65 effects is underway. I've learned that it is at CAL and that Prater's minions are working hard to try to make this look less lopsided. It's really ugly.

 

[The Victors]

Didn't you guys just elect this guy? Like 6 months ago?

 

[PCL_128]

Try to replace Darth Prater through a recall. It can not be done.

It cannot be done because everyone is lazy and cowardly. Show me a single resolution that any pilot has brought at any single meeting to remove Darth Prater. Hasn't happened. No one will stand up and take action. That's a fault with the membership, not with the Association.

They are not just elected they are groomed for the position. Even though Prater was chosen by the pilots he was groomed upon his arrival to tow the party line.

Completely incorrect. Prater has set policy in Herndon on Age-65. This wasn't an ALPA position that he was "groomed" to carry out. The EC, EB, and BOD have the ability to set policy and direct the President, but so far, they've only done as he's asked. It seems to me that Prater is the one doing the "grooming" of everyone else.

 

[PCL_128]

Didn't you guys just elect this guy? Like 6 months ago?

The BOD elects the President, not the rank-and-file. There were some very interesting politics (i.e. vote trading) going on at the BOD that resulted in a surprise victory for Prater.

 

[The Victors]

The BOD elects the President, not the rank-and-file. There were some very interesting politics (i.e. vote trading) going on at the BOD that resulted in a surprise victory for Prater.

Thanks. I wasn't sure about that.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

As a recent CAL upgrade,

Congrats !!!

 

[ualdriver]

The leadership disregarded that opposition. When ALPA had the chance to stop age 65 cold, ALPA instead choose the path...............

Could you please point to the specific time in history, along with the supporting verifiable facts, where ALPA had the chance to stop age 65 cold? I'm pretty familiar with the chain of events that will lead to the change of this rule, but I'm not aware of the time in history that you are referring to?

I think Prater is doing exactly what he should be doing concerning this US Air thing. He let the two groups try to come to a resolution on their own. They failed. They both went to binding arbitration. The arbitrator ruled. One side is mad. He listened to both side's arguments as to why/why not the arbitrator's ruling was wrong, and hopefully the Council will butt out again and ecourage both sides to negotiate, even though IMO neither side is under any obligation to do so. ALPA National should stay out of it other than encouraging negotiations between the disputing parties.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Apparently age-65.

So he is doing this purely for his own personal benefit...

How does the ALPA Prez have the power to move the enitre organization in that direction. The EC/EB are facades?

It's not about individual whims. It's about "majority rules." He doesn't seem to get that.

Man, we have gone over this... are you going to get over it...?? Move on....

I really wanted to support Prater and I hoped that he could be a good leader. While I personally supported Captain Woerth during the election, after that was over I was determined to put it behind me and stand with Prater. Unfortunately, he's made that impossible. With his complete disregard for the will of the majority, he gets no support from me.

WOTM......

How about some flight case stickers... to go with the cheese...

How about some recall.... not...

How about a special seesion of the EB? BOD? Not!

Maybe if he wasn't so focused on this age-65 nonsense for the past 6 months he could have worked closely with the AAA/AWA MECs and come up with a viable solution without arbitration. Instead, we're now stuck with a situation that, at best, will turn into a generation-long dysfunctional pilot group at the "new" USAirways. At worst, this could turn into a viable decertification drive at AAA. Yep, real good leadership.

Sounds like NWA too.



p.s. AAA has always been dysfunctional..... between the Peidmont guys, PSA and USAIR and others.. that is like jews and arabs trying to occupy the same land....oh wait never mind...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This lack of following you cite over and over indicates that ALPA doesn't connect with it target audience.

It takes two in any realtionship. Responsibility that is...

The leadership has lost the pilots. ALPA time has come to an end. It is just wasting our time and money and should cease to exist.

No.. the leadership is minding the store.. its the membeship that doesn't show up and never really did...

When the organization is about continuing the tradition of the organization and not about the pilots any longer it is done. ALPA should die.

And then what? Management can represent you?

Hopefully the EAST will lead the charge and end this dead horse called ALPA.

Hilarious.... what is the EAST going to do... show up at a meeting! that is the whole problem.. they don't show up...no one at any council SHOWS UP!!! here you are calling for the EAST membership to excecise leadership... but no wait... leadership is not your repsonsbility.. its the leaders fault...and we dont do anything including go to meetings and get involved.. we just complain about the leaders and demand the leaders shut down the organization...What.. are you calling for ALPA to commit sucide...??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Incorrect Whiskey. If the system doesn't allow an opposition voice the system doesn't self correct. ALPA does not self correct as you claim is possible. If it did we would not be in this pit of inaction.

ALPA doesnt correct as you say because there is no system of checks and balances. The apathetic members don't call out the leaders. Hint FI message boards is not calling out your leaders. You have to create a political grassroots movement. Opps sorry.. am I suggsting you get involved. Sorry.. how silly of me to suggest you actually work to protect your own career...

An example of what I am referring to is age 60. The majority opposed the issue for many years now. The leadership disregarded that opposition. When ALPA had the chance to stop age 65 cold, ALPA instead choose the path the leadership wanted to allow age 65 by suppressing the age 60 majority with the bogus information education campaign which allowed the problem to build. And ALPA got what it wanted regardless of all the "kicking a scream" you referred to in your post. ALPA in this example prevented the majority view which it has done for too long now.

Your misconception of how ALPA fucntions on capitol hill is dissapointing at best.

I am going to get Age 60 pacifiers and hand them out to all the babies that keep whining about WOTM!

ALPA does not represent the pilots anymore. ALPA represents ALPA's interest and if those conflict with the pilots the pilots lose. Again ALPA do not represent it pilots. ALPA represents itself.

What are ALPA's interests? So back in the day when co-pilots only had a 1/2 vote did ALPA represent pilots? Or only kinda sorta halfway like?

It is ignorant to believe that ALPA is an organic self correcting organization. ALPA is a political mess that has failed the pilots for way to long.

ALPA is quite an effective and respected organization on CapHill....

It would be even more effective if its members weren't amatuers when it comes to career management...

Everything has a life cycle and ALPA's has come to it end.

That is deep Jack Handy.. no really...

And what will happen during the power vacuum? No ALPA and there will be instantaneous pay cuts and work rule changes... You cant be this dumb. I dont think you are...In fact I think you are smarter than you think you are...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA's leadership under Duane Worth and John Prater for the last nine years has been to serve ALPA without regard for the pilots it represents.

Maybe you should change the C&BL so you don't have to vote. Then you won't have a conscious about not voting and your responsibilites as an american won't being knawing at you.... Do you agree to be a custodian to democracy? Or do you reject democracy?

ALPA has failed to protect the bottom and the top of the profession. ALPA has sacrificed the middle's future forever for a few at the top during the short term during the last five years.

Let me guess... you are in the top and your son is just starting in the bottom...

It is going to be very interesting where the EAST goes now and what follows. The consequences for ALPA need to be as harsh as those it has dealt its pilots.

Tough guy....like what consequences... are you going to threaten to show up at a meeting & particapte in democracy?

'damn you ALPA... you better start behaving...or or or I am going to show up at an LEC meeting... Yeah that's right.. are you scared now ALPA... I am going to particapte in democracy..see how you like that you big bad ALPA monster...'

For the last five years ALPA has been remained untouched while every pilot it has represented has taken a beating.

oh the drama!! the humanity! unchecked democracy!!

Go ahead..show up at an LEC meeting... huh..punk..do ya feel lucky? well do YA PUNK!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What I am trying to get you to understand is that change within this union our union comes from us! This union is run by policy thru resolution.

huh what? you call me?

If you don't take the time to effect change you are essentially accepting what is. Yes I too was not happy with age 60 and how this was handled. If you are unhappy take it to the pilots in your council and get support, lots of it. Write a resolution

You want me to write a Rez O. Lewshun?

It sounds tough but it's not and this is how you effect change within this union. I am telling you this as a member of the ALPA BOD. Change within this union begins with the pilots.

Actually it takes a little bit of political skill.... here is the next rub.. with clowns like luckyohaveajob who do nothing but sport biotch... finally get the nerve to show up with a resolution.. it is so amatur hour (guys have shown up with a verbal resolutions before...something Rez O. Lewshun never reccomends) that it quickly gets squashed.. then these amatures go home pissed off cause they couldn't effect one stop shopping express check out change.

Being effective in managing your career takes time and effort... something many don't want or feel they have to do.... but hey its your career...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We are in agreement concerning Darth Prater. But the reason I believe the organization is flawed is because it can not be changed.

Of course nothing will change. First of all you will continue to try and fit reality to your expectations.. not the other way around. Untill you do this you are going to be pissed off and ineffective.

Second.. how about changing minority membership particaption levels.. oops sorry... not an option...

Try to replace Darth Prater through a recall. It can not be done.

Of course not. Because you will not show up at an LEC meeting. simple. done.

How many National Presidents have been replaced in ALPA history?

How many US presidents have been forced out without resignation? In addition how many have been removed because of political discontent?

They are not just elected they are groomed for the position. Even though Prater was chosen by the pilots he was groomed upon his arrival to tow the party line.

wrong. so very wrong...

None from the outside can change the party line. The EVP's and influential MEC's set the tone, no one else period.

Well no one can change the party line bcause they don't show up at LEC mmetings. And now you expect the EVP's and MEC's to reflect the pilots who don't particapte. I know you are not this dumb. I believe in you...


In addition, I thought it was Prater... now you are saying its the MEC's and EVP's? Wow the Star Chamber is getting bigger...and Leon is getting laaaaaarger....



(did I leave the iron on?)

That's why the organization is in decline. There is no freedom of speech, freedom to change what is wrong, or any ability change the organization away from the power brokers who do not represent the pilots, other than disillusion.

Wait...you are stupid. I don't believe in you anymore....

Yes we need a union. We need a national union that represents the pilots interests not the organizations interests. That is not happening today in ALPA. And it will not happen in the future with ALPA.

Hyberbole!! "We need change but I am not willing to change! ALPA must come to my house and serve me so I can tell them what they should do even though I have no clue about what the real world is like..... I am Archie Bunker on Roids!!!"

ALPA is not an organic organization adapting to the needs of the individual pilots. ALPA exists for ALPA's sake not the pilots.

ALPA: serving the special needs of 60,000 pilots...one at a time...