WWYD NetJets or Delta?

[Semore Butts]

DAL, It's a No Brainer!

DAL, Absolutely!

If you are NJA and your seniority number is below the 1500's you should go to DAL...

Then I'll be in the top!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

YYYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! BAby!

I'm off on active duty from NJA and I have to say I hope the majors treat their military guys as well. The company has been very supportive.

I can't wait to get back to NJA.

It's good that you are researching your options.

 

[Quimby]

...this thread won't be complete without GL commenting.

 

[cessnapilot]

... both good choices ...

Don't let someone choose for you, but find out what the jobs are like, and pick the one that you will be excited to get up and go do.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

"What if" those wackos were successful in starting a fire in the JFK underground fuel lines and indeed get a terminal or a runway to be destroyed. That could have put a damper on Deltas' international expansion.
Thats how fast things can go from Hiring and major expansion to Furloughing and shrinking....

 

[Box-Hauler]

Lastly, DAL has probably the BEST travel benefits of any major airline. You and your family can see the world if you want for free if you go at an off-peak time. I guess you could do this to a certain extent with skymiles (generated as a passenger getting to flights for the fractional), but you couldn't do it as often as you could at a major.

You are kidding right. Travel benefits, only if you like to travel standby on a 50 seat RJ that is always overrbooked. To use the travel benefits you need to travel to destinations no one wants to go to and to do it at the worst possible times. But hey it is still a free ride.

It is more a question of QOL. Can you handle the less structured flying of NJA or do you like knowing your destinations a month ahead of time. Lest not forget that with 121 you have a crew in the back to deal with, this can be good or bad, my experience is more bad than good but that was with a bad commuter that paid their flight attendants squat. Just another view. I am looking at leaving 121 to go to NJA just for job security.

As previously posted another 9/11 type issue involving aircraft and Delta will be down for the count along with most of the other airlines. NJA would actually benefit from such an event. People who travel first class can do it for about the same money and much less hassel with NJA than getting hammered by the TSA waiting to go to the gate flying on DAL.

It is a tough choice just be glad you have the choice to make. I would start training with NJA and wait and see if a class date opens up with DAL. Once DAL offers you a date you might have a better idea about NJA corporate culture and if you want to stay. Good luck.........

 

[regionalcap]

You are kidding right. Travel benefits, only if you like to travel standby on a 50 seat RJ that is always overrbooked. To use the travel benefits you need to travel to destinations no one wants to go to and to do it at the worst possible times. But hey it is still a free ride.

.........

You just have to know when to travel. I took my entire family down to St. Thomas last year in September with 80 open seats each way. All for free.

 

[Diesel]

Did you stay at the hotel on the concierge level all week for free?

 

[gutshotdraw]

As I sit here on day 17 of my 21 day vacation (one of three this year BTW), I can only think of one word: Northwelta.

Delta is hiring. Northwest still has people on furlough. In the (likely IMO) event of a merger, a new hire could find him or herself royally scrawed. As AAA found out, ANYTHING can happen in a seniority blend. Just something else to think about....

 

[cessnapilot]

You are kidding right. Travel benefits, only if you like to travel standby on a 50 seat RJ that is always overrbooked. To use the travel benefits you need to travel to destinations no one wants to go to and to do it at the worst possible times. But hey it is still a free ride.

People always say that, but it's not always true. My wife and I have gone to several places, and we just had to pick the right day and the right flight. If you have a day or two to be flexible, it will work. We have gone to Europe every year for the last 14 years nonrev. In peak summer. Everyone talks about not being able to travel, but that hasn't been my experience. I do agree, you will be packed in a full flight! By the way, Delta is the best for nonrev. They have always been nice to us, and they have gotten us into business class MANY times! Thanks DL

 

[cessnapilot]

As I sit here on day 17 of my 21 day vacation (one of three this year BTW), I can only think of one word: Northwelta.

Delta is hiring. Northwest still has people on furlough. In the (likely IMO) event of a merger, a new hire could find him or herself royally scrawed. As AAA found out, ANYTHING can happen in a seniority blend. Just something else to think about....

Northwest has a poison pill, and I don't think you will see them buying anyone. Never say never.... but I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[johnsonrod]

Northwest has a poison pill, and I don't think you will see them buying anyone. Never say never.... but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Once you allow one big merger then you have to allow other big legacy mergers. I doubt Congress will approve a major consolidation that reduces consumer choice... AWA and USAirways was an exception because USAirways was about to be liquidated...

 

[gunfyter]

You know... the Fracs depend on the airlines to move people to airplanes. Fracs will not benefit from something happening to the airlines.

But there is a conspiracy theory .. not sure if I heard it from Rosie o'Donnel that WB was behind 911.

See:

Offutt - Warren Buffett - George Bush - September 11

http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?6.1440​

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I like to see that math.

Here's the math I calculated for 12 years at each company.
For NetJets, I assumed the first year as FO and first year as Captain you will be on the reserve schedule because this is typical.
For Delta, I assumed the first 3 years as FO and as Captain you are on reserve. This can vary based on company needs.
-Being on reserve increases salary at both companies.

These figures are all based on APC's current pay scales and the minimum required hours worked at both companies. Per diem, overtime, tips, etc. are not included in these figures.
-Upgrade is assumed in year 5 at NetJets and year 9 at Delta Airlines.
They are both calculated using the most junior aircraft scale for each company.

NetJets years 1-12
1. $46290 -reserve
2. $40950
3. $43000
4. $45150
5. $106810 -reserve
6. $92250
7. $94500
8. $96750
9. $99000
10. $101250
11. $103500
12. $105750
Total = $975,200

Delta years 1-12
1. $41160 -reserve
2. $57120 -reserve
3. $66360 -reserve
4. $63180
5. $65520
6. $67080
7. $68640
8. $70200
9. $113400 -reserve
10. $115080 -reserve
11. $115920 -reserve
12. $117600
Total = $961,260

I also did a comparison of the highest pay scales on their most senior aircraft. If it were possible to become a Delta 777 captain after 12 years, you would be earning $146,640/year base salary.
A 12 year NetJets BBJ captain would earn a base salary of $193, 670 + COLA. A Falcon 2000EX captain would earn $167,140 + COLA per year.
It looks like NetJets wins after 12 years.
Based on current pay scales, it doesn't seem to change much if you move to larger aircraft either. Unless Delta significanly raises their pay scale or NetJets upgrades come to a stop, I can't see this changing.

 

[CrewDawg]

I also did a comparison of the highest pay scales on their most senior aircraft. If it were possible to become a Delta 777 captain after 12 years, you would be earning $146,640/year base salary.
A 12 year NetJets BBJ captain would earn a base salary of $193, 670 + COLA. A Falcon 2000EX captain would earn $167,140 + COLA per year.
It looks like NetJets wins after 12 years.
Based on current pay scales, it doesn't seem to change much if you move to larger aircraft either. Unless Delta significanly raises their pay scale or NetJets upgrades come to a stop, I can't see this changing.

But when you go to class IV or V aircraft don't you start back at 1 year pay for that class? Not that I'm against Netjets but I thought I remember reading that a while ago.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I'm not sure, but nobody is going to be flying as captain in a 777 nor a BBJ for either company after only 12 years. It's closer to double that length of time. I just added that at the end because I thought it was interesting.

Plus on my above evaluation, NetJets pilots only get the increased reserve pay scale for 2 years, verses Delta pilots being on increased reserve pay for 6 years and NetJets pilots still earn more over the 12 year period.
Obviously many people are going to have different experiences based on how many hours they fly each month and when they upgrade.

 

[cessnapilot]

Here's the math I calculated for 12 years at each company.


I also did a comparison of the highest pay scales on their most senior aircraft. If it were possible to become a Delta 777 captain after 12 years, you would be earning $146,640/year base salary.
A 12 year NetJets BBJ captain would earn a base salary of $193, 670 + COLA. A Falcon 2000EX captain would earn $167,140 + COLA per year.
It looks like NetJets wins after 12 years.
Based on current pay scales, it doesn't seem to change much if you move to larger aircraft either. Unless Delta significanly raises their pay scale or NetJets upgrades come to a stop, I can't see this changing.

Upgrades will change. They always do. You only looked at the min reserve money for Delta. If someone holds a line and flys as a Capt on the 777, they probably earn more like $180k. Don't forget most flying is intl, and so there is a pay increase for that.

Its always difficult to look out 12 years. I would look at what type of flying you would rather do. I, personally, had a fun time in corp flying, but prefer part 121 at a major. Don't chase only money, but rather find something you enjoy doing that also pays well.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Upgrades will change. They always do. You only looked at the min reserve money for Delta. If someone holds a line and flys as a Capt on the 777, they probably earn more like $180k. Don't forget most flying is intl, and so there is a pay increase for that.

Its always difficult to look out 12 years. I would look at what type of flying you would rather do. I, personally, had a fun time in corp flying, but prefer part 121 at a major. Don't chase only money, but rather find something you enjoy doing that also pays well.

Bingo!

 

[Freight Dog]

A concern with NJA is their FO pay - it's flat. So if stagnation happens, you're essentially S.O.L. with respect to making more money.

Having done some 91/135, I gotta say the flying is WAY better than 121.

 

[FoxJet]

Are you really going to make your decision based on us jokers at Flightinfo? Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.

I mean really, you can't decide whether you want to throw bags on a Citation and ride around in the back of airliners all the time, always on reserve vs. a major airline career?

Pat Fabin,
I can't wait for the day your sitting as my F.O. at NetJets, I'll give you and Delta 4 years max before they furlough you and your begging for a job with us.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Whatever, Mr. Gold Seal CFI. Go back to watching your John & Martha King videos.

-PF

 

[GogglesPisano]

Pat Fabin,
I can't wait for the day your sitting as my F.O. at NetJets, I'll give you and Delta 4 years max before they furlough you and your begging for a job with us.

That's pretty crude. So I'll be crude, too. Some people, myself included, have always aspired to fly for a major airline. Everything else is just paying dues. The idea of being a boot-licking chauffer has no appeal to me (it obviously does to some people -- hey, you get to eat the leftover scaps from the catering right? uke: )

"Begging fo a job at Netjets." :laugh: Got to love it.

 

[RNObased]

That's pretty crude. So I'll be crude, too. Some people, myself included, have always aspired to fly for a major airline. Everything else is just paying dues. The idea of being a boot-licking chauffer has no appeal to me (it obviously does to some people -- hey, you get to eat the leftover scaps from the catering right? uke: )

"Begging fo a job at Netjets." :laugh: Got to love it.

Ahh, Delta Pilots a very classy bunch of guys. Goggles, why don't you take your boy Fabin and go back to the majors portion of the board. That way you can discuss commuting, and ways you can improve that settlar service you guys provide on Delta. Have you ever thought that the idea of being a bus driver has no appeal to some people??? As does eating the idea of eating the crap that you serve to the people in first, and therefore to your a$$. I see that now, you are out of bankruptcy that old Delta charm is coming back. Loser.

 

[Fozzy]

Everything else is just paying dues. The idea of being a boot-licking chauffer has no appeal to me (it obviously does to some people -- hey, you get to eat the leftover scaps from the catering right?

Hey at least we get food. And a retirement plan. Oh ya and great medical benefits.
As for the boot licking, well your group is in NO position to throw stones.

 

[niteflyr]

Amazing how quick that Delta "charm" came back after they are out of BK. I worked 130 days last year and never once had to lick any boots, and I am satisfied with my own catered meals so I have yet to eat any scraps. Whatever you guys have to keep telling yourselves about our job to make you feel better, even if it is far from the truth.

Oh yeah, and how long will you have to be out of the "pool" to break the 120K per year mark? I did it last year (year 6), and my 401K broke the 120K mark the same time! How's that for coincidence?

 

[johnsonrod]

Amazing how quick that Delta "charm" came back after they are out of BK. I worked 130 days last year and never once had to lick any boots, and I am satisfied with my own catered meals so I have yet to eat any scraps. Whatever you guys have to keep telling yourselves about our job to make you feel better, even if it is far from the truth.

Oh yeah, and how long will you have to be out of the "pool" to break the 120K per year mark? I did it last year (year 6), and my 401K broke the 120K mark the same time! How's that for coincidence?

I wouldn't paint every Delta pilot like that. I know plenty of great Delta pilots who don't feel that way.

 

[Diesel]

Hey lets just all hope the airlines raise the price of a ticket 5 bucks so they can somehow breakeven on that flight from jfk to oma. Oh wait fuel prices going up? Hope someone hedged their fuel price because thats going to really affect the bottom line.

 

[FoxJet]

Whatever, Mr. Gold Seal CFI. Go back to watching your John & Martha King videos.

-PF

Find a sense of humor, this avatar is me making fun of guys like you. You know the type, because I'm sure your one of them. Cowboy Boots, mustache, an aviation license plate, tell people your a pilot before you tell them your name.

I understand why you all couldn't work for a fractional or corporate. You want to walk on to the airplane turn left and lock the door. Its similar to the days when you were a kid. Walked home locked yourself in your room and played Dungeons and Dragons. Fantastic, social skills! Be truthful, its not that you want to fly for the majors because its obvious to anyone that such glory is a thing of the past. It's that your afraid to rub elbows with the people that run this world. You and I both know they will instantly see through your thin facade. Dont blame me blame your mother

 

[Fozzy]

Hey lets just all hope the airlines raise the price of a ticket 5 bucks so they can somehow breakeven on that flight from jfk to oma.

Ahh wait, that would be an RJ on that route. :laugh:

 

[theskyking]

That's pretty crude. So I'll be crude, too. Some people, myself included, have always aspired to fly for a major airline. Everything else is just paying dues. The idea of being a boot-licking chauffer has no appeal to me (it obviously does to some people -- hey, you get to eat the leftover scaps from the catering right? uke: )

"Begging fo a job at Netjets." :laugh: Got to love it.

Let's see, the last scraps I ate were right after I finished my catered grilled salmon I thought I might try one of the still wrapped filet mignon sandwiches that were untouched by the owner. I think my boot licking tongue felt just fine after that.

Keep your 121. It sucks. I'll be a chauffeur over a bus driver any day.

 

[Semore Butts]

Your boning me right?

The best food I've ever experienced in my life has been as a fractional pilot?

Grand Junction Colorado, 2 crew meals (I had a Cobb salad)

CAtering: 7 sea food plates

Passengers: 1 Lady, 1 Nanny, 3 kids, 2 "no shows".

I've never seen Scallops that big!

I've been (As most of you that know of me) have been back in the military deployed.

I can't wait to get back to the "scraps" at the Fractionals. What a great bunch of pilots at Netjets and Flexjet.

You 121 guys shouldn't "be hatin", you may end up at a Fractional one day saying "WTF was I thinking"?