What do you think will happen to ASA?

[av8er2]

Can anyone indicate anything that is positive about ASA's future?

I personally am beginning to think there is a plan to really shrink ASA. They are stalling big time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think that Delta has negotiated an opportunity to exchange some CRJ200's for CRJ900's. It might be that certain 200's were leased by Comair to SkyWest Inc., which are being operated (mostly) at ASA. Some of these airplanes are very cheap due to the bankruptcy negotiations. A Comair style exchange is likely. But, SkyWest will probably get the choice as to where to operate these jets.

Source for information are this month's feature article on SkyWest in Airliners' (I think was the name of the magazine), the C Concourse re-re-redesign with jetways, SkyWest's ATL base, recent events at Comair and management comments.

The airplanes will be held out as yet another carrot to dangle in front of the ASA pilots. The stick will be the ever present threat to replace ASA as SkyWest and the others can. Management will say the future of ASA is in the pilots' hands.

I think ASA has a future, regardless of management threats. But there is the very real possiblility that it is a smaller future if ALPA does not get pragmatic and really focus on scope.

P.S. I just read our President's update on negotiations which was pretty specific on scope. The ASA CNC made a very reasonable request to lock in current block percentages and management rejected it out of hand. I'm glad the CNC made their proposal and support them in sticking to their principled position on this critical negotiation.

 

[WWEfan]

We are going to get 900's. I repeat....we are going to get 900's.

...as soon as the contract is done. There is already a rate negotiated for them (same as the 700 ). I suspect we will begin swapping the 200's for 700's and 900's once the contract is done. Like Fin's said, it will be a carrot to get the contract done. Management doesn't want 200's anymore. The future is the 70-100 seat range.

Bottom line....ASA isn't going away.

 

[crjskipper]

i agree fins that's it's about time they pushed for scope.

but it will never be agreed to with the other demands on pay for the 200/700, full backpay and profit share from inc. verse asa. alpa is still cherry-picking.

you cant within reason expect to dramatically increase costs - and demand future growth. why and how would skywest inc. ever agree to that?


the company is now offering skywest 200 pay - take it with some cola.

take the 700 pay as offered by the company with some cola.

take existing asa profit share.

push for more money in the signing bonus - that's a one time hit on inc.

realistic scope - tough one but achievable with other requests

get er done.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

It is always darkest before the dawn early light. Most thought that Comair was in the grave and they are know getting the 900s with big seats in the front. The life cycle for the 200s are coming to an end and we will be swapping them out for 900s as well after we ink a deal. This is not the time for a token contract. It is only for ~3+ years or something like that.

 

[jegermeister]

Without leverage, this place is going to get much smaller. Each day that passes improves the company's position for transfering ASA flying. Our replacements are setting up domociles in ATL as we speak.

I know . I know. That's why we need scope. Folks it's too late for scope to save this place. They will either wait us out on the contract or circumvent whatever scope is agreed upon.

Jeger

 

[ASAFOE120]

It is time we get this thing done. We should take the rate they offered us on the 200 with cola. Take the rate on the 700. I believe we then will see the 200 start to go away being replaced by the 700/900 and those of us coming off the 200 will get a raise. Push for as much scope as possible, as much retro or signing bonus as possible, and lets send this thing out for a dang vote to see what happens. This is not the time to push for industry leading or even close. With all these carriers in ATL now, we have lost a good portion of our leverage.

Lets sign the thing, let 3 yrs go by, and see where Republic, Chitaqua, Republic, etc... are at in there negotiations or what rates they have then.

Just my thoughts.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

It is time we get this thing done. We should take the rate they offered us on the 200 with cola. Take the rate on the 700. I believe we then will see the 200 start to go away being replaced by the 700/900 and those of us coming off the 200 will get a raise. Push for as much scope as possible, as much retro or signing bonus as possible, and lets send this thing out for a dang vote to see what happens. This is not the time to push for industry leading or even close. With all these carriers in ATL now, we have lost a good portion of our leverage.

Lets sign the thing, let 3 yrs go by, and see where Republic, Chitaqua, Republic, etc... are at in there negotiations or what rates they have then.

Just my thoughts.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[79%N1]

I just read the company memo, and just as many thought.....scope costs something, and our CNC has not been willing to address that. Now, I don't blame them, they are doing what the pilot group wants. The expectations are a bit unreasonable for many at ASA. (Flames expected) We want the pay rates, the bonus plan, the full retro AND the binding scope. The company memo says it all. They cannot agree to the scope, and all of the other requests. The rub is this. They are maybe willing to give all the other goodies, but cant agree to the scope, see, because they will then need to transfer aircraft because ASA will have out priced themselves. Idle threat? I don't know. But, many say that the scope costs you something. The company can agree to protect your job if you agree to a cost effective contract. (See: Mesa, CHQ, Eagle) We need to decide, and soon, what we want. The jobs, security and maybe growth......or the top pay, full retro and bonus plan. Once we decide, this can get done! We, IMHO, can't be fighting for both. It just has never worked that way in this industry, and we just don't have the leverage now that Skywest owns us and can use the whipsaw tactics, and Delta keeps futher diluting the DCI product in ATL. I think the direction we need to take is clear.

Flame away!

 

[Jmoney]

Get 'R DONE-DAMMIT!

I agree with many points of the previous post. You need to have a balance between what you want and what you need. Nothing comes for free. I think we should get something soon. Just imagine how much leverage we will lose if another hurricane hits and fuel goes insane. We are losing a lot of steam here, we are taking a big risk by going on and on like this. If an economic downturn of any kind hits, the company will exploit it and stick it right in our BL!
-J

 

[Speedtape]

Skywest, Inc. can transfer the airplanes now. They don't have to wait until our contract is finished. They quit transferring them because it costs them millions and that threat campaign failed, just like the closing of SLC. WE MAKE MONEY.

The plan to spread the DCI flying in ATL was made when Delta got the bill from the Comair strike. No carrier will ever have the adverse impact on Delta, again, that Comair had. Anyone who tries, will be vaporized with less impact on Delta.

Soon, ASA will just be another small jet provider flying into and out of ATL along with the other 9 or so. Get used to it! Any new airplanes we gain, post contract, will be a swap for 200's just like the Comair deal. The G.O. is history as soon as the lease runs out next year. Most of the business functions are in St. George. B.L. and C.T. will walk away with their million dollar stock compensation, and we may be called SkyEast.

In this world of small jet providers, the idea of scope is a joke. You buy it by being the second lowest provider in DCI. If you want it, then give them low fixed costs with a long contract. That is really the only option you have for job protection long term. But once you agree to it, others will follow to be competitive. Folk's, this an airline managment's dream--reversed pattern bargaining or more commonly known as "the race to the bottom!"

 

[goahead]

The company can agree to protect your job if you agree to a cost effective contract. (See: Mesa, CHQ, Eagle) We need to decide, and soon, what we want.

CHQ and Eagle make more than us on average, hell a 7yr CA on the 50 seater makes five dollars more an hour than us at both places..... Were you comparing pay rates only? I agree we need to decide and now.

 

[jegermeister]

Skywest, Inc. can transfer the airplanes now. They don't have to wait until our contract is finished.

Two words.

Status Quo


Two reasons why you're wrong.
1. Status quo has kept them from raping this place. As of yet we haven't seen any aircraft leave the property. We lost firm orders, but not airplanes. We lost 70's but gained 50's. That's why ALPA has not made an issue of it.
2. We don't make profits. Skywest Inc. makes profits. And if they want to transfer their flying to a non union group, they'll do it when they can. For the money making reason and the keeping ALPA off the property reason.

 

[Speedtape]

Two words.

Status Quo


Two reasons why you're wrong.
1. Status quo has kept them from raping this place. As of yet we haven't seen any aircraft leave the property. We lost firm orders, but not airplanes. We lost 70's but gained 50's. That's why ALPA has not made an issue of it.
2. We don't make profits. Skywest Inc. makes profits. And if they want to transfer their flying to a non union group, they'll do it when they can. For the money making reason and the keeping ALPA off the property reason.

Two reasons why I may not be wrong:

1. Status Quo--shhhhh--That term is arbitrary and largely unenforceable. There are court decisions that favor management in the transferring of assets. Status Quo has no teeth in this issue. They can transfer every last airplane they want, as long as they can show economic benefits to the parent company.

2. I would disagree on technicalities on this point. Skywest, Inc., compared to a battery and ECU in electrical terms, does NO work in directly producing power/money. They simply store the power (money), until it is needed and decide where it goes. ASA and Skywest Airlines, in electrical terms, are both generators and conduits. They do all work in producing the power (money). The power (money) is then channeled back to the battery for storage and used by the ECU.

Skywest Airlines and ASA both make money. However, with consolidated reporting, it is now impossible to determine who makes what. That's what makes profit sharing a pie in the sky.

 

[79%N1]

This is why we need to decide what is most important to this pilot group, and settle for that. At first it was QOL. We took 3-4 years getting mostly what we want there. Then it became industry leading pay and full retro, then we decide we want (need) job protection/scope. Most feel that scope is very unobtainable or unenforceable......so lets drop it then. They have come up to Skywest rates. If we drop some other requests, the company can come above Skywest a little. What do we want most? More pay? Full reto? Scope? We need to direct the MEC, because we cannot achieve all of it. And the longer they pursue it all, the longer it will take.

 

[goahead]

Even if we get 100% "scope" it's only as good as the paper its written on.... Not worth it

 

[79%N1]

Ok, so then why hold up negotiations further trying to get it?

 

[~~~^~~~]

That is rediculous. If scope is only worth the paper it is written on, then pay rates, quality of life, insurance, bidding, scheduling and the rest of the contract are worth the same amount, or less. Remember without scope there is nothing binding the Company to the pilots covered by the contract.

The only thing that gives a contract any ability to bind the Company is that glue called scope.

 

[Flyer1015]

CHQ and Eagle make more than us on average, hell a 7yr CA on the 50 seater makes five dollars more an hour than us at both places

Hate to break it to ya, but there are NO 7 yr Eagle jet captains.

I believe the most junior Eagle jet captain is an early '99 DOH.

 

[goahead]

Hate to break it to ya, but there are NO 7 yr Eagle jet captains.

I believe the most junior Eagle jet captain is an early '99 DOH.

Well you know what I mean.....