CAL GUYS, PAY not as they stated in writting.

[Skywriter70]

My New Hire acceptance letter for CAL stated exactly word for word, "Pay begins the first day of training. Training pay is calculated at 76.00 hours per month for a full month of training. First year pay is $29.97 per hour, regardless of equipment flown." Now, I was in training during the entire month of April, and I was compensated for 72.00 hours. I called payroll and they said that the correct compensation is 72.00, not 76.00 as stated in the letter, and that the letter was wrong. HMMMM????!!!!???? They also told me that I was to reference Section 3 Part 8 Para C..... of the contract if I had any questions. Seems to me that this letter is legally binding, and no contract was given to me ahead of accepting the job, and starting training. If it changed somewhere along the lines, hiring dept did not make the changes, but that's not my fault. Secondly, if you read section mentioned, it is geared towards not a newhire, but someone flying the line, one who might be losing pay during training because it references (2:24) or trip lost, whichever is greater. I am certainly not new to airline contracts, but would like the money that I feel I am owed. Not much, but a great deal for a newhire here. CAL guys, your input, and best course of action please.... New guy and realize that as well with regard to being a squeaky wheel, just want what I feel I am owed. Keep in mind, this also effect 100's of newhires even though they havent realized it until now.... Thanks for the input...

 

[michael707767]

Seems to me that this letter is legally binding, and no contract was given to me ahead of accepting the job, and starting training. If it changed somewhere along the lines, hiring dept did not make the changes, but that's not my fault. Secondly, if you read section mentioned, it is geared towards not a newhire, but someone flying the line, one who might be losing pay during training because it references (2:24) or trip lost, whichever is greater. ..

I don't think the letter would be legally binding. At a non union company, I think you may have an argument. But, at a union company with a contract in place, I don't think you would have any chance of arguing that the letter supercedes the contract. Further, I don't think you want to get your name up in lights this early in your career over what amounts to about 80 bucks a month after taxes.

 

[vetrider]

Further, I don't think you want to get your name up in lights this early in your career over what amounts to about 80 bucks a month after taxes.

I was thinking that exact same thing.

 

[boomlrd]

Its the principle of the "muthaf..ker". I would fight for it, whats next at CAL, no pay at all in training?

 

[imadumbpilot]

I hate to say it, but welcome to CAL.:erm:

Get ready cause it's going to be a fight to improve on this sh_t bag contract.

 

[Andy]

Its the principle of the "muthaf..ker". I would fight for it

As a probationary pilot? I'd classify that as poor judgment.

 

[bearcat]

Month and pay period could be slightly different. I'll check and let you know, but if the pay period had more days than what were in the month.....than you probably were compensated correctly. I have a very complex pay check every month b/c mil loa and I have hardly ever had a problem....It is a pretty good system. Althogh I used to work at the hell hole called MESA!

 

[bearcat]

Month and pay period could be slightly different. I'll check and let you know, but if the pay period had more days than what were in the month.....than you probably were compensated correctly. I have a very complex pay check every month b/c mil loa and I have hardly ever had a problem....It is a pretty good system. Althogh I used to work at the hell hole called MESA!

Yeah the pay period was from 3 april - 2 may which is 31 days. Your paycheck on 15 May should have been for 3 Apr - 2 May minus your advance check if you received one. Did you start April 1?? I don't know if this helps, but like every other job in the world it is hard getting in the swing of things with payroll for a month or two. Welcome and sorry for the first year b/s.

 

[yoyoma]

sounds like every experience i've ever had with CAL.

 

[Whataburger]

As a probationary pilot? I'd classify that as poor judgment.

Poor judgement? Done properly, this could be done without getting in "trouble." Managements such as yours, Andy, know that pilots of most major airlines are scared to put their d!ck on the line to fight for what they believe in. It's only $80/mo, it's only a few days more off, it's only a couple of bucks an hour, its only your pension, it's..................................................

 

[The Victors]

My New Hire acceptance letter for CAL stated exactly word for word, "Pay begins the first day of training. Training pay is calculated at 76.00 hours per month for a full month of training. First year pay is $29.97 per hour, regardless of equipment flown." Now, I was in training during the entire month of April, and I was compensated for 72.00 hours. I called payroll and they said that the correct compensation is 72.00, not 76.00 as stated in the letter, and that the letter was wrong. HMMMM????!!!!???? They also told me that I was to reference Section 3 Part 8 Para C..... of the contract if I had any questions. Seems to me that this letter is legally binding, and no contract was given to me ahead of accepting the job, and starting training. If it changed somewhere along the lines, hiring dept did not make the changes, but that's not my fault. Secondly, if you read section mentioned, it is geared towards not a newhire, but someone flying the line, one who might be losing pay during training because it references (2:24) or trip lost, whichever is greater. I am certainly not new to airline contracts, but would like the money that I feel I am owed. Not much, but a great deal for a newhire here. CAL guys, your input, and best course of action please.... New guy and realize that as well with regard to being a squeaky wheel, just want what I feel I am owed. Keep in mind, this also effect 100's of newhires even though they havent realized it until now.... Thanks for the input...

Wow, and I thought SkyBus had low wages.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

 

[Andy]

Done properly, this could be done without getting in "trouble." Managements such as yours, Andy, know that pilots of most major airlines are scared to put their d!ck on the line to fight for what they believe in. It's only $80/mo, it's only a few days more off, it's only a couple of bucks an hour, its only your pension, it's..................................................

Done properly? When all it takes is a manager having a bad day for you to be terminated?

Let's go over risk/reward here. The maximum upside is $80. The maximum downside is losing your job.

I've seen plenty of legacy pilots wave the BS flag on legit issues, but I've never seen it as a recommended course of action for a probie. To risk your career over $80 is completely foolhardy. If the guy wasn't on probation, that's fine. But on probation, the company can terminate his employment without cause and ALPA is not going to help the guy.

As far as the other stuff you cited, poor analogy. For you to say that legacy pilots are scared to fight management is a gross misstatement of reality. Your management and line personnel have a friendly relationship so I can understand your ignorance on the subject.

 

[regionaltard]

I called payroll and they said that the correct compensation is 72.00, not 76.00 as stated in the letter, and that the letter was wrong. HMMMM????!!!!????

Could it be that they're just trolling for troublemakers? I hate to break it to you, but you unequivocally signaled your willingness to eat $hit by pursuing a job in this industry in the first place. I'd carefully consider the implications of letting my new employer know that I was considering a healthier diet if I were you.

 

[Andy]

I hate to break it to you, but you unequivocally signaled your willingness to eat $hit by pursuing a job in this industry in the first place.

Do you mind if I plagiarize this? Spot on.

 

[ToThePain]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

Pocono,
Do you troll FI to find times to criticize CAL, the company you interviewed with?
Do you know the circumstances regarding this not scheduling a hotel room for IOE with this guy you know who left CAL for SW? He probably wasn't given a room because he was based in IAH and CAL is not responsible for setting up your accomodations when you are flying out of you home base. You are in training for 1 1/2 months where they pay you $29.97/hour guaranteed for 72 hours a month and recieve approx. $44/day per diem. While this definately needs improvement I think that during that time you have pleny of time to find a place to stay (i.e a crach pad) or a hotel room.
When I went to IOE out of Newark they didn't give me a room either nor did I expect this since that was where I was based.

 

[JoeMerchant]

$25,894.08 per year first year, plus you have to pay for your own health insurance..... is it any wonder that people are leaving for SWA.....

 

[Whataburger]

Done properly? When all it takes is a manager having a bad day for you to be terminated?

Your management and line personnel have a friendly relationship so I can understand your ignorance on the subject.

A) Never seen a pilot fired for something so small. Never seen a probie fired at all, and I have seen some probies do some pretty darn dumb stuff.

B) Ignorance on the subject? Disagreement is not a sign of ignorance. How many airlines have you been employed by? This is my third in 9 years, so I think its safe to say I have the ability and background to draw a rational opinion on this subject.

 

[vtwo]

Quit bitching and get back to work, there are plenty of other "shiny jet syndrome" pilots who will eat the turd samich. now if you want to fight for whats right. go back to college and join a movement. plus the chick there are easy(.Hairy but Easy) If you believe you are right then find a tact full way to bring it to your manager and the union to get results. If either are worth a sheet then the solution will find it self.
Good luck and hope you win.

 

[regionaltard]

Do you mind if I plagiarize this? Spot on.

Thanks for the props, but I don't think that it's technically possible to plagiarize something that's so painfully obvious to begin with-it's not like I'm the only one to have figured this one out. This Skybus thing makes me think that we might even have already progressed beyond basic $hit eating to the point where we're feeding the monster a high-fiber diet and laxatives and then fighting for the choice spots close to the sphincter.

 

[AlbieF15]

While we may not be at the bottom, we can see if from here.

Folks are walking from CAL and JB. Age 60 has meant that the FO wages better be livable, because some of us are going to be on them for a while. I think we got a shot across the industry on these next contracts for some serious improvements...

Its not a question of whether guys will leave their company or their industry. Its happening already.

Skybus? Nobody will stay. They'll fill some classes with some new meat that want A320 type ratings, but just as JB is having a hard time filling classes as the train has slowed and rapid upgrades aren't happening--Skybus will see the same thing.

 

[Ex737Driver]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

You have obviously not worked for XJT for very long. You call CAL the worst major but are quite blind to the pile of crap you are sitting in at Express.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

You have obviously not worked for XJT for very long. You call CAL the worst major but are quite blind to the pile of crap you are sitting in at Express.

I've been at XJT for a few years now, actually. Though things are just starting out with our own branded airline, I am confident at what is going on here so far for the most part.

Your CEO is wrecking what was once a good airline. First by sub-ing out all the flying when we were doing great providing your feed. Always nice to see a CHQ plane painted in United colors flying for CAL in IAH. Nice job Larry and Co. Way to honor the brand.

I can also say confidently that I would rather work for XJT until I move onto another major airline, instead of work for CAL.

Is it true that pilots are actually getting hired with CAL and leaving for SWA, FedEx, UPS, DAL? Don't bother to answer, I know they are.

Why are they doing that? It must be pretty bad at CAL.

Also, I didn't start this thread, I just answered a post, and as usual, you CAL guys are ripping me. Is it because I would rather work at XJT then CAL? Do you also rip the guys that are leaving CAL for DAL?

What gives?

 

[Crucianpilot]

I've been at XJT for a few years now, actually. Though things are just starting out with our own branded airline, I am confident at what is going on here so far for the most part.

Your CEO is wrecking what was once a good airline. First by sub-ing out all the flying when we were doing great providing your feed. Always nice to see a CHQ plane painted in United colors flying for CAL in IAH. Nice job Larry and Co. Way to honor the brand.

I can also say confidently that I would rather work for XJT until I move onto another major airline, instead of work for CAL.

Is it true that pilots are actually getting hired with CAL and leaving for SWA, FedEx, UPS, DAL? Don't bother to answer, I know they are.

Why are they doing that? It must be pretty bad at CAL.

Also, I didn't start this thread, I just answered a post, and as usual, you CAL guys are ripping me. Is it because I would rather work at XJT then CAL? Do you also rip the guys that are leaving CAL for DAL?

What gives?

I am not going to criticize you for what you have said. Like they say, to each his own. However, I have been here for almost 2 years and this has been the best job I have ever had in this business. This is my 6th airline so I do have a lot to compare it to. Yes, there are some issues that need to be addressed in our next contract negotiations (PBS, compensation, etc..) but every company has its issues. There are a lot of things that we do here that were never done at some of the other places that I worked at. I am very happy with my decision to come here and I plan to finish my career here. By the way, there are quite a few people leaving other airlines to come here also (Airtran, Jetblue, etc..) so it is happening to all airlines. Everyone has their reasons.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am not going to criticize you for what you have said. Like they say, to each his own. However, I have been here for almost 2 years and this has been the best job I have ever had in this business. This is my 6th airline so I do have a lot to compare it to. Yes, there are some issues that need to be addressed in our next contract negotiations (PBS, compensation, etc..) but every company has its issues. There are a lot of things that we do here that were never done at some of the other places that I worked at. I am very happy with my decision to come here and I plan to finish my career here. By the way, there are quite a few people leaving other airlines to come here also (Airtran, Jetblue, etc..) so it is happening to all airlines. Everyone has their reasons.

Six airlines, and you don't see the problem with starting over again at $30K and paying for your own health insurance. We've done it to ourselves.... nobody to blame but ourselves.....

 

[Tommy Boy]

$25,894.08 per year first year, plus you have to pay for your own health insurance..... is it any wonder that people are leaving for SWA.....

Well deduct the price of 'One 737 type rating' and it seems pretty much the same s**t to me. And they pay for insurance after 6 months, not a year. True the first year pay sucks but remember that this is the concessionary contract. If you look at the numbers, CAL kept most of our pilots after 9/11 and brought everyone back as quick as they could.

I have worked for at least 8 companies in my aviation career and CAL has treated me the best of all of them.

By the way, if you know anything about airline flying you would know that 72 hrs is just the guarantee. Without putting out much effort at all, you will easily make 35k the first year... and no Koolaid or type rating required.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

CAL has always had sub-par pay even before 9/11 with a weak pilot group. Any place that lets scabs be union officals should raise some flags.

 

[Whataburger]

Koolaid required

Well deduct the price of 'One 737 type rating' and it seems pretty much the same s**t to me. And they pay for insurance after 6 months, not a year. True the first year pay sucks but remember that this is the concessionary contract. If you look at the numbers, CAL kept most of our pilots after 9/11 and brought everyone back as quick as they could.

I have worked for at least 8 companies in my aviation career and CAL has treated me the best of all of them.

By the way, if you know anything about airline flying you would know that 72 hrs is just the guarantee. Without putting out much effort at all, you will easily make 35k the first year... and no Koolaid or type rating required.

Just so we keep the facts straight. If you like CAL then it's great you're there. SWA Facts = Year one, no less than $50k first year, pay and bennies start at hire date, Reserve for 2 months, 15-16 min. days off on reserve. Year two, no less than $90k. Year 3, no less than $100k. These numbers are base just on flying 95TFP or less. The average is 110TFP/mo.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Skywriter,

Give the letter to your Contract Admin or Grievance Committee Chairman. He/she will take care of it. Since you're not the only pilot on probation who received the letter, ALPA can fix it without putting you on the skyline.

Use your resources.

 

[SOVT]

I cannot speak to your letter but mine was as follows.

"Aircraft and base assignments will be established on the second day using class seniority. Class seniority is determined by your date of birth, with the oldest being the most senior in the class. The B737 is the normal starting equipment, but it is not unusual for a new hire to be awarded a B757/B767 position. First year pay is $29.97 per hour, regardless of the equipment flown, with a minimum pay guarantee of 76 hours per month as a reserve pilot; however, if you are awarded the Guam base and commit to an 18-month stay, you will receive second year pay on arrival in Guam. Second year pay for a reserve pilot is $58.44 per hour with a 76 hour per month guarantee. In addition, Guam pilots receive a Cost of Living Allowance of $1100 per month."

In this case it was pretty clear to me that the pay was for a reserve pilot. It has been my experience that while in training you get training pay, at least that is the way it has worked in the three airline jobs I had prior to this.