FAA probes new close call at LAX

[Soverytired]

It's ok, their Union will help them out.

My one experience with a desperate call to my lovely ALPA union when the FAA and my chief pilot were gunning for my hiney left a lot to be desired.

Wound up having to line up my own private counsel when all our ALPA lawyer would do would tell me that "it probably isn't that serious, and I have a lot more serious cases than yours." I.E. . . you're on your own.

Really made me glad about all the thousands of dollars I've dumped into their coffers, I can tell you.

 

[Soverytired]

You know, I realize "Mesa Sucks" and all, but I find it fascinating that this hasn't devolved into a "Skywest pilots suck" thread.

Maybe it's finally becoming clear that LAX has some real systemic problems (controllers, markings, whatever) that are leading to this crap?

 

[skiandsurf]

Maybe it's finally becoming clear that LAX has some real systemic problems (controllers, markings, whatever) that are leading to this crap?

I never understood where people think that LAX is a dangerous airport. All parallel runways (no crossing runways). Long runways. No small planes. No private pilots (few if any).

I would much rather take my chances flying into LAX than SNA or BUR.

Not sure what is so hard about landing, clearing, and holding short.

 

[Spinplate]

w o r d

 

[Soverytired]

I don't have extensive experience there myself, but I've always thought that "highspeed that's not really a highspeed" is asking for trouble.

PHX used to be in the top 5 of "most runway incursions" in the US . . . 3 E-W runways, how could it be more simple?

Rather than continue to blame pilots, however, the city ponied up for lots of runway hold short lights, green pavement, and improved taxiways and taxiway markings. Made a HUGE difference.

Need to do the same in LAX. IMHO.

 

[dvmthwsvan]

PHX used to be in the top 5 of "most runway incursions" in the US . . . 3 E-W runways, how could it be more simple?

Isn't that where Mesa's home is.

Coincidence, I think not.

Dave

 

[N4niner206]

Isn't that where Mesa's home is.

Coincidence, I think not.

Dave

Hint: It wasn't the Mesa pilots doing it. As you mentioned, its their "home".

 

[Soverytired]

Isn't that where Mesa's home is.

Coincidence, I think not.

Dave

Not sure what you mean by "Home". Corporate is there, but the vast majority of it's flying is done elsewhere (IAD, CLT, ORD, BNA, etc.)

That's still a pretty stupid thing to say though. Always the pilots fault, never a poorly designed ATC system or taxiway, eh?

Admit it . . .you really wanted to pile on the Comair guys for taking off on the wrong runway, didn't you?

 

[Speedtape]

My one experience with a desperate call to my lovely ALPA union when the FAA and my chief pilot were gunning for my hiney left a lot to be desired.

Wound up having to line up my own private counsel when all our ALPA lawyer would do would tell me that "it probably isn't that serious, and I have a lot more serious cases than yours." I.E. . . you're on your own.

Really made me glad about all the thousands of dollars I've dumped into their coffers, I can tell you.

First, I seriously doubt that any ALPA lawyer told you that he had a lot more serious cases than yours in the context that you state.--YI (Your Interpretation--you're on your own)

I, along with many other pilots, have had drastically different experiences with ALPA representation than what you are trying to spin. In fact, I would submit, that as far as representation in such circumstances, that ALPA attorneys are far more experienced than any outside counsel that your good money could have bought.

If you don't want to pay dues, then just say it. But don't misrepresent the quality representation that ALPA can offer in these situations. They have a track record to prove it and also plenty of support from their own engineering department to dispute flawed government investigations and establish accurate information regarding accidents/incidents.

 

[Soverytired]

First, I seriously doubt that any ALPA lawyer told you that he had a lot more serious cases than yours in the context that you state.--YI (Your Interpretation--you're on your own)

I, along with many other pilots, have had drastically different experiences with ALPA representation than what you are trying to spin. In fact, I would submit, that as far as representation in such circumstances, that ALPA attorneys are far more experienced than any outside counsel that your good money could have bought.

If you don't want to pay dues, then just say it. But don't misrepresent the quality representation that ALPA can offer in these situations. They have a track record to prove it and also plenty of support from their own engineering department to dispute flawed government investigations and establish accurate information regarding accidents/incidents.

You could not be more wrong. ALPA legal hung me out to dry. ALPA may have many things to offer, but based on my experience, legal representation is not one of them. This may just be a function of Mesa-ALPA, but I can only speak to what I know.

And I assure you, you get what you pay for. A private practice attorney who practices aviation law, and who is dedicated to your case will do a far, far better job than an ALPA attorney who has to priority-rank dozens of cases.

Do you honestly believe that in a political organization like ALPA that limited legal representation resources are metered out based on merit? Or do you think that as a political organization, those resources will be doled out based on influence?

A private practice attorney succeeds or fails based on his reputation, word of mouth referrals, and customer satisfaction. He can also take cases or leave them, to keep his workload manageable. An ALPA attorney is on the payroll, and when there's too much on the plate, he'll prioritize based on who has the most influence in the union.

Whatever. Glad you had a better experience than I did.

 

[Dubya]

Just so everyone can sleep better.

We never made a "180 degree turn back towards the runway"....an A340's wings do not extend over the the runway edge lines (but are scary looking as they pass 30 feet from you at 100 kts)...we didn't make a "wrong turn".
The Virgin crew and tower screwwwed the pooch here.

You see...the Brazillia is the creamy white filling in ATC's Oreo cookie approaches at LAX. They lost separation then panic as we turned off the runway...controller gave conflicting turn instructions...highspeed...then left onto the reverse...then stop. That's the short version.

 

[OO pilot]

I'm sure as hell not wonder pilot, just making a point we all need to be thinking about the big picture and not just the one in front of us.

agree

 

[OO pilot]

Just so everyone can sleep better.

We never made a "180 degree turn back towards the runway"....an A340's wings do not extend over the the runway edge lines (but are scary looking as they pass 30 feet from you at 100 kts)...we didn't make a "wrong turn".
The Virgin crew and tower screwwwed the pooch here.

You see...the Brazillia is the creamy white filling in ATC's Oreo cookie approaches at LAX. They lost separation then panic as we turned off the runway...controller gave conflicting turn instructions...highspeed...then left onto the reverse...then stop. That's the short version.

Interesting to hear the other version.

 

[Tarzan]

Just so everyone can sleep better.

We never made a "180 degree turn back towards the runway"....an A340's wings do not extend over the the runway edge lines (but are scary looking as they pass 30 feet from you at 100 kts)...we didn't make a "wrong turn".
The Virgin crew and tower screwwwed the pooch here.

You see...the Brazillia is the creamy white filling in ATC's Oreo cookie approaches at LAX. They lost separation then panic as we turned off the runway...controller gave conflicting turn instructions...highspeed...then left onto the reverse...then stop. That's the short version.

I guess this you then? Glad to hear that is how it down. Sounds like you guys are safe.

 

[Gnarloooo]

I guess this you then? Glad to hear that is how it down. Sounds like you guys are safe.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this was NOT him, as I would assume that if you can fly the effing airplane then you probably should be able to spell the name of the airplane you're flying. Of course, maybe I'm overestimating the capabilities of my fellow workers. After all, they did vote in that gay, I mean pay, package.

 

[Soverytired]

Just so everyone can sleep better.

We never made a "180 degree turn back towards the runway"....an A340's wings do not extend over the the runway edge lines (but are scary looking as they pass 30 feet from you at 100 kts)...we didn't make a "wrong turn".
The Virgin crew and tower screwwwed the pooch here.

You see...the Brazillia is the creamy white filling in ATC's Oreo cookie approaches at LAX. They lost separation then panic as we turned off the runway...controller gave conflicting turn instructions...highspeed...then left onto the reverse...then stop. That's the short version.

Are you questioning the journalistic integrity of USAToday (a.k.a. "Mc Paper")? How can you even suggest that a newspaper might not get all the facts right on an aviation story?


(heh. Actually, I've been on the wrong end of some lame reporter myself . . . their stupidity is only surpassed by their arrogance)

 

[MYFpilot]

I'm gonna go ahead and say this was NOT him, as I would assume that if you can fly the effing airplane then you probably should be able to spell the name of the airplane you're flying. Of course, maybe I'm overestimating the capabilities of my fellow workers. After all, they did vote in that gay, I mean pay, package.

I know the aforementioned skipper and he definitely couldn't spell "Brasilia". However, he is one damn good Brasilia Pilot. ATC screwed the pooch, plain and simple.

Shim, Shim!!

 

[Morning Wood]

I never understood where people think that LAX is a dangerous airport. All parallel runways (no crossing runways). Long runways. No small planes. No private pilots (few if any).

I would much rather take my chances flying into LAX than SNA or BUR.

Not sure what is so hard about landing, clearing, and holding short.

Well it's because of this kind of stuff. LAX is either 1 or 2 (ORD is either 2 or 1 I can't remember) in runway incursions every year. Vague clearances, airlines that don't speak English, blind spots from the tower. You'd think that tightening stuff up at LAX would be a priority after the 1991 accident with USAir and SkyWest. They only recently redid the South complex (the parallel taxiway isn't done yet).

SkyWest has been involved in three incidents in the past 8-10 months, 2 of which were because of airplanes landing and not holding short of the parallel runway. Quick action on the part of SkyWest crews averted disaster both times. I'll wait until the final verdict comes out before I play armchair quarterback about who's fault this was. I recommend the rest of you do the same.

 

[Dubya]

I'm gonna go ahead and say this was NOT him, as I would assume that if you can fly the effing airplane then you probably should be able to spell the name of the airplane you're flying. Of course, maybe I'm overestimating the capabilities of my fellow workers. After all, they did vote in that gay, I mean pay, package.

Sorry for the extra "l". Ii cann indeeed flyy itt andd spelll itt tooo.. and the A340's wings do extend over the edge lines of 24R...my mistake. Did the USA Today pick up the story too? I saw it in LA Times and and Chicago Sun Times. Crazy. I don't have much time to check in here and debate all of you full time genius'. I'm just a lowly part-time genius. Nothing new in the investigation as far as I am aware.

My advice to y'all...if you are cleared to land...the runway is yours...and if tower is barking at you to do this or do that to fix his fowl up...too bad...you get off the runway how and where you feel it is safe to do so. I still can't believe Virgin didn't go around....and new info from the tapes...final controller was yelling at Virgin to go around...they landed anyway.

Peace W