USAirways (East) pilots prepare for all out war...

[BigMotorToter]

The MEC held most of this weekend's special meeting in closed session so its
seniority list integration strategy does not become public.listed below are some of the MEC’s public actions and some additional
options, some of which have been discussed before.
Apparently, there is no mechanism for ALPA National to reject the Nicolau
award, which is binding per the Constitution and by-laws. However, the MEC
directed the Merger Committee and Council to provide an in depth briefing
involving charts and graphs depicting the severe impact of the Nicolau award.
According to last night’s code-a-phone “ALPA’s (Internationals) Executive
Council receive a presentation regarding the Nicolau Award from our Merger
Committee at its next regular meeting two weeks from now, and that the full
resources of the (International) Association be made available to support the USAirways’ pilots in connection with the turmoil generated by the Nicolau Award.
With that said, ALPA is a political body and will likely act as such, but with
the threat of decertifying ALPA on this property and attempting to do so on the AWA property, this could give us some leverage. Regardless, this will take at least two weeks to unfold. It appears one area of leverage we have over a body is with the Companybecause Doug Parker can reject the new seniority list if it will cause damage to the business enterprise. Our leverage: operating without enthusiasm and not
agreeing to a new combined contract.Will the company want to operate without new joint agreements? No, but they can. In addition, this could prevent the
other labor groups from getting new deals because without every union obtaining new CBA’s, US Airways cannot complete its merger integration and realizing further needed cost and revenue synergies.
Therefore, the MEC drected the Strike Prep Committee (SPC) to stand down all activities, which include the coast-to-coast “rolling thunder” picketing and all other activity designed to help the pilots obtain a new CBA. In addition, the US Airways MEC and US Airways JNC members cancelled meetings to be held next week and beyond with their AWA MEC and JNC counterparts that were being held to
develop ALPA’s counter proposal to the company’s first comprehensive contract
proposal, which is being delivered to the Association today.
Meanwhile, according to MEC chairman Jack Stephan he is "joining the JNC in
Washington D.C. as they receive management’s first economic counter-proposal.
But make no mistake; my number one priority remains your well being and our
corresponding response to the devastating effects of the Nicolau award." These
talks are being led by US Airways president Scott Kirby, who along with Doug
Parker, has the right to set aside the Nicolau award.
In my opinion, the MEC is taking a number of steps to get the Nicolau award
set aside, but it is going to take a couple of weeks to get this undone and I
believe our greatest asset in this fight is that Nocolau's Opinion & Award was
so egregious that he left the door wide open for appeal and counter action. As
far as the East pilot’s power, I believe we need to look no further than the
Delta pilots and how they reacted to US Airways' hostile takeover bid. According
to Bruce Lakefield, the Delta pilots were the ones who killed the deal, and I
bet there were those that said there was nothing they could do, but in theend,
their solidarity prevented them from succumbing to US Airways and we can do the
same thing too.

Finally, previously wrote Jack Stephan an email and here are my comments for
review:

In previous emails to our group, I have written at length on the benefits,
both from a seniority and economic view, of not obtaining a new joint contract
with the company and the America West pilots to prevent inequities like the ones
described by Jed.

However, there is another option that is surfaced, which I understand is being
discussed by the US Airways MEC meeting and that is to decertify and “kick” ALPA
off of the property. This action is profound and has a number of implications
for ALPA International, the America West pilots, US Airways, and the other US
Airways represented employee groups, and is one I will wholeheatedly support and
I encourage you to pursue with vigor.

If the US Airways pilots elect to decertify ALPA from the property and we did
not reach a joint combined contract with the America West pilots and the
company, senior management could not implement George Nicolau’s seniority list
and the ALPA constitution and by-laws and policy manual would no longer be
controlling. Thus, the requirement for an Arbitrators decision being binding may
no longer exist.

Then US Airways ALPA would have the legal right to solicit another outside
union or form an inside union to represent the interests of the US Airways
pilots. With a union separate from ALPA then the company, US Airways and America
West pilots would need to petition the NMB to order a representational election
to see what union would represent the East and West pilots.

Here is the interesting part. The US Airways pilots are a larger group than
the America West pilots and would have effective control over what union could
represent the combined group pilots, and equally important the “East” pilots
could kick ALPA off of the America West property too.

The ramifications of this action are enormous and profound, which could
include:

ALPA International would lose over 6,400 members and this could cause other
disgruntled pilot groups to leave ALPA as well, causing a major loss of ALPA
dues revenue, and unwinding of the union.

If the US Airways pilots leave ALPA and force the America West pilots to leave
ALPA too, then the US Airways pilots could dictate what union represents the
America West pilots. For example, one option would be the Teamsters – Airline
Division. Meanwhile, the new seniority list could not be implemented during this
process. Moreover, the US Airways pilots would maintain all widebody flying, the
vast majority of attrition based career expectation advancement and pay raises,
the America West pilots would have significant stagnation, the company could not
combine operations, and without an operational/labor integration, the company
would not have much motivation to reach new agreements with the other labor
groups that could boost employee pay and benefits.

Also noteworthy, during the process US Airways pilots would have improved pay,
benefits, and quality of life because the East attrition is about a 4:1 ratio
over the West pilots.

Another interesting development would be that the America West pilots and the
company would be required by federal law to enter into Section VI negotiations,
which could lead to direct negotiations, mediation, a “30-day” cooling off
period, and then a strike. And, during this process there would be no new joint
contract between the company and the East and West pilots until the
representational and seniority integration was resolved, which could take a
very, very long time.

In the long run, I do not believe US Airways East pilots, the US Airways West
pilots, or the company would like to see this option proceed and ALPA
decertified on either property, but since you’re discussing this very real
option today I wanted to prose an alternative

Thus, what can be done to prevent the decertification of ALPA? I believe a
negotiated option could be for the US Airways East and West pilots; along with
the company, to agree to place permanent fences around West and East Coast Crew
bases. These fences would prevent a pre-merger US Airways pilot from bidding PHX
or LAS and a former America West pilot from bidding BOS, CLT, DCA, LGA, PHL, or
PIT. Each pilot group would maintain their pre-merger career expectation and DOH
and the combined union and company could negotiate a new joint pilot working
agreement, which would benefit the company, the East and West pilots, and the
other labor groups.

In addition, there would have to be a number of conditions on the new
seniority list and fences such as how would new flying to China, Japan, Israel
would be split, how would positions for growth widebody aircraft such as the
A340 be shared by each employee group (not replacement aircraft) or in the event
of a furlough how would this pain be shared? Other areas would be how to handle
shared EMB-190 flying or scope issues such as minimum fleet counts and block
hours.

Regardless, the US Airways East pilots have options that will prevent the
implementation of the new combined seniority list such as not reaching a new
joint contract, pulling out of ALPA, and preventing the seniority list from
being implemented cannot be stopped by US Airways’ “executive suite” or the
former America West pilots. Furthermore, the decertification of ALPA could be
executed by other airline labor unions in any future merger, which may prevent
industry consolidation from occurring in the future.

Finally, thank you for your actions, which include from your chairman's
message today, "Ikeep you informed of the events taking place in light of the
travesty handed to us in the Nicolau arbitration ruling. Two conference calls
took place yesterday, the first one being a Pilot to Pilot conference call which
produced feedback and ideas that are critical to our process moving forward.
Next was a conference call with the MEC Officers, key committees and legal. The
purpose of the call was to share information in preparation for today’s special
MEC meeting involving developing strategy and setting priorities. When examining
how to challenge the integration award, we are looking at all options at our
disposal, nothing has been ruled out."

 

[mynameisjim]

It's interesting to see an arbitration from the other side. Often we hear about pilots getting an arbitration in their favor and management says its not binding or finds a way around it. And the pilots complain. This time, binding arbitration comes up with a deal that's no fun and the pilots want it not binding, and are trying to find a way around it. interesting. I wish everyone luck, and I hope that no one walks away happier than anyone else.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

"...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Why not just fence us off till all you dorks retire. Wait a minute even better, fence us off and then I'll apply at USAir east, get hired and then randomly sh!t in flight bags left in the crew room.

I think I might be onto something here....

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Good luck.

This is gonna be one of those 20 page name calling threads, isn't it?

 

[Dogwood]

"...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Why not just fence us off till all you dorks retire. Wait a minute even better, fence us off and then I'll apply at USAir east, get hired and then randomly sh!t in flight bags left in the crew room.

I think I might be onto something here....

Exactly the post the east would expect from the west.

I'm glad I now will not be a part of this mess, and going back is no longer a decision I have to make.

I wish you all good luck. I feel for the first western division pilot to bid CLT.

DW
DOH 1988 - Furloughee

 

[abefly]

how about we ,the west pilots, just sign a contract and provide the company with some financial stability, then just throw out the transition agreement and take the usair planes over to our (west) side and hire off the street. Then we can say goodbye to all you east idiots! Yeah that sounds good!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I like your idea way better than mine.

 

[Crandal]

Good Luck with all of the eforts

First off ALPA EC will listen everything. That is there responsibility. Look at ALPA By-laws. So nothing will change. I am sure AWA pilots are hoping that ALPA tries to change something so they can retire with the mone they get from DFR lawsuit against ALPA. Only reason ALPA EC will listen, it is because the big 5 (FDX, UAL , NWA, DAL, CAL), might be involved in the future mergers, so they can see if they need to change ALPA Merger policy, or keep it as it is.

Second I think there is a law about predatory recruiting between unions when one is already on the property. Can not happen, even if you try. I believe Teamsters tryied ones against ALPA, and lost big time. Even if you change Unions the List is binding, it's like I don't like my toys so I will play with other ones. Thi List is final and binding.

Third don't underestimate the power of Senior Pilots. Senior guys are known to eat their young. Just ask any of the furlough pilots from USAirways how they felt after 9/11 and if they got any sympathy from seniour guys, look at the MDA pilots, etc.... If the money is good 51.1% will vote for the JNC contract. Put yourself in their shoes, they have been trained, it's all about me, me , me. Plus if you are 52 or older what are your options in North East for the jobs and how much money would you be making being junior again.

Fourth, when Doug Parker, is ready to sign the contract, he will come to your MEC and say either you sign this or I will sell peaces off to the highest bidder. I am sure AirTran, Southwest will like some of you gates in DC, or Boston. The moment he starts selling peaces off senior guys will come around and sign anything.

I do understand where USAir pilots are coming from. I am sure we all heard words such as SARA (shock, anger, resignation, acceptance). In a couple of weeks I hope you guys come around to R-resignation. I just wish for your health, you guys would have somebody in your MEC to give you a reality check what is possible and what is not. Also, understand one thing, every time you guys played tough you lost. Look at the history of LOA 93, and how it came to be. It is my understanding that you were offered first something better but that was not enough. Now DOH attitude and look what happened. If the judge tells you, do you want to change your position on DOH because you will not like my final ruling, I would definitely think about it. I just don't understand how come you didn't expect what Nicholau will do, with you attitude for DOH. I thought you worked with him from Shutle integration, and I thought you knew him better.

Good luck to you, and hopefully at the end, this will work out for all of those employees who want to make USAirways their final destination.

 

[FDJ2]

As
far as the East pilot’s power, I believe we need to look no further than the
Delta pilots and how they reacted to US Airways' hostile takeover bid. According
to Bruce Lakefield, the Delta pilots were the ones who killed the deal, and I
bet there were those that said there was nothing they could do, but in theend,
their solidarity prevented them from succumbing to US Airways and we can do the
same thing too.

Very true, very true indeed.

I sure am glad we dodged that bullet.

I hope the East and West guys are able to settle this issue. IMO, a ratio integration makes sense, but perhaps the fences should have been higher, or some mechanism put in place so that the east pilots would benefit from east pilot retirements, while the west benefits from west retirements regardless of seniority. IOW, if in any given year 2/3rds of the retirements came from the east, then 2/3rds of the advance entitlements due to attrition would go to the east the next year. This could be done for a set period of time. Advanced entitlements based on growth or increased flying would go via strict seniority.

The decertification threat sounds a little desperate and shows a certain amount of weakness. I don't see how the East pilots can force the west pilots, who operate under a separate CBA and have their own MEC out of ALPA against their will.

The withdrawal of enthusiasm, might give the east pilots a short term sense of power, but if it continues too long they will start to see their assets and routes diminish and transferred to the west.

Eventually the irrational emotions will subside and clearer heads will prevail. It is not in the best interest of either pilot group to see this drag out too long.

 

[flatspin7]

Well they say that a merger isnt complete until everybody is pissed off so here we go!

 

[Dogwood]

how about we ,the west pilots, just sign a contract and provide the company with some financial stability, then just throw out the transition agreement and take the usair planes over to our (west) side and hire off the street. Then we can say goodbye to all you east idiots! Yeah that sounds good!

Probably if the east retirements were protected for the east pilots, that would probably be enough.

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.

This happened, when we had a North and South division. Pittsburgh got whatever they wanted.

Again, I would hate to be the first west pilot to bid an east crewbase. This is going to get ugly.

If everyone stays on their side of the Mississippi, things may work out.

 

[On Your Six]

How about we go back in time, allow the original USAirways to liquidate as it was about to do, have AWA buy most of the assets minus the super crappy 737s (given that the legacies were all in the $hitter anyway and did not have the ability to just buy anything) and then just call it a day....

Maybe the USAirways East guys should be a little more grateful - especially the top 500...

 

[Beetle007]

What type of integration would have been fair and kept the East pilots happy. How can you fairly integrate a group of pilots that has 18 year furloughees and a group of pilots that has 5 year (or thereabouts) captains. (However, I think there should have been significant fences for all widebodys).

Not to mention the fact that U.S. Airways was about to liquidate and no one thought they would survive. Other airlines were already shopping for which airplanes and gates they wanted.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Nothing is going to happen. The East MEC will try this obsurd separation BS and fail miserably. It will just give the East folks a false sense of hope. When it goes down in flames they'll me more pissed off than they are now.

When it comes to voting in a new contract it will pass...assuming its a decent one. The top 524 East people aren't going to vote no. Most of the East CA's will not vote no and the senior East FO's will not vote no. Most of the AWA pilots will not vote no. Who's left? Just a couple hundred junior East FO's.

We have nothing to worry about.

 

[On Your Six]

Nothing is going to happen. The East MEC will try this obsurd separation BS and fail miserably. It will just give the East folks a false sense of hope. When it goes down in flames they'll me more pissed off than they are now.

When it comes to voting in a new contract it will pass...assuming its a decent one. The top 524 East people aren't going to vote no. Most of the East CA's will not vote no and the senior East FO's will not vote no. Most of the AWA pilots will not vote no. Who's left? Just a couple hundred junior East FO's.

We have nothing to worry about.[/quote]

When people say this you know you should be concerned... I'm sure the East people will appreciate your viewpoint.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.

We didn't decide on the list. The arbirtator, whom your MEC agreed to, decided it. Your MEC and our MEC agreed to binding arbitration. That doesn't mean arbitration that fits your likings...it means you accept the outcome. Now act like freakin' professionals and accept it.

This "we'll take it out on the AWA pilots" attidude isn't going to go over well. You should be careful how you treat us because your "voting power" will be gone in 10 years. Then we'll be the majority. At that point you better hope we're not pissed off at you.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

When people say this you know you should be concerned... I'm sure the East people will appreciate your viewpoint.

When this is the counterpoint to your argument you know you have nothing to be concerned about.

 

[PositiveRate]

Nothing would have made them happy beyond turning the clock back to 2000.

Right now, there's a desperate attempt out East to preserve "their attrition" for their own. They are grasping at the false hope of a "fix" that could make the arbitrator's ruling more paletable.

Thing is, though, before the merger their attrition meant squat - I know there will undoubtedly be a vocal group that disagrees with that premise, but there is little proof that expectations were anywhere but in the toilet before the deal was announced. A neutral arbitrator agreed. The vocals back East are trying to preserve an asset that was born from the merger. What you "owned" prior to the merger was a dying airline at best. All of the positives - recalls, attrition potential, general stability, financial cushions and growth potential - those are all a result of the merger and we all own that together whether you like it or not.

Talks of permanant base fences, refusal to sign a joint contract, etc are an arrogant and pathetic attempt once again to box the West pilots from anything good that may come from this debacle of a merger. This was attempted unsuccessfully by your merger committee and will fail again.

The scary feeling I have is that, maybe US Airways' destiny was to fail. It seems there are a group back East willing to see that through before they 'cede' to the West - in that case, Doug Parker has tied many thousands of livelihoods to an anchor that was destined to sink out of existance.

The louder this fight gets, the more uncertain our future becomes. If we cannot or refuse not to unite to fight for a contract that we all deserve and have earned, we will all suffer together. To think that the East alone can prosper via the tactics described in the first post of this thread is beyond foolish.

 

[Green]

Probably if the east retirements were protected for the east pilots, that would probably be enough.

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.

This happened, when we had a North and South division. Pittsburgh got whatever they wanted.

Again, I would hate to be the first west pilot to bid an east crewbase. This is going to get ugly.

If everyone stays on their side of the Mississippi, things may work out.

who cares about your (east side) voting power?? We all want the same things, more money and more days off. The majority of our reps are marginal at best, go ahead and replace them!!! Our phx fo rep is continually flying 100 hours per month in the middle of a Do Your Own Job Campaign. The best thing we have going for us is a stellar merger committee and if we were smart we would hire the AWA MC to run the JNC talks.

As for "again, I would hate to be the first west pilot to bid an east crewbase..." That's just lame. I definitely understand the bitterness and anger but it's sad to see such a mature pilot group act like thughs on these message boards. It goes from burn the place down, to replace alpa and try to change the rules after the game, to we're going to beat you up/sh$t in your flightbag. Whatever guys.....I tend to think the crazy posters are not working line piltos, but who knows.

I say lets fight for a decent contract with fo wages equal to current captain wages and nobody loses. Operating under LOA 93 forever just to spite AWA pilots does not help your cause. It just costs you a lot in lost earnings and time away from family.

 

[Hpilot]

Nothing is going to happen. The East MEC will try this obsurd separation BS and fail miserably. It will just give the East folks a false sense of hope. When it goes down in flames they'll me more pissed off than they are now.

When it comes to voting in a new contract it will pass...assuming its a decent one. The top 524 East people aren't going to vote no. Most of the East CA's will not vote no and the senior East FO's will not vote no. Most of the AWA pilots will not vote no. Who's left? Just a couple hundred junior East FO's.

We have nothing to worry about.[/quote]

When people say this you know you should be concerned... I'm sure the East people will appreciate your viewpoint.

I love the companies proposed pay rates. It's obvious I'm going to get to subsidize all the east senior pilots. You can bet the bean counters looked at all the max year FOs on the east when they prepared this joke of a proposal. It's amazing they think they're the ones getting screwed.