USAirways (East) pilots prepare for all out war...

[BenderGonzales]

I can't believe what a bunch of sophomoric children you're being on both sides of the Mississippi. When you go out of business as a result of labor discord than you can all look for jobs together, and all start at the bottom of some other seniority list together - furloughees and non-furloughees alike.

-Furloughed March 02

 

[Tomct]

US was about to be liquidated and all of the majors were just salivating over the gates. The top 500 guys should be VERY greatful for where they are...they have jobs. This crap of saying that you deserve to be above the HP pilots is a LOAD! Without the AWA purchase, you ALL would have been on the street! Now stop your b!tching and get a good contract....TOGETHER!

 

[MK82Man]

Big Motor -- Thanks for posting the info.

I really believe at this point the East Guys may be going off the deep end. That the East MEC and Jack Stephen would let that kind of rhetoric get out and on the street in absolutely unbelievable. If the EAST MEC is sending this type of rant via email or phone recording – they are just nuts. The West understands the East is upset. Get through the process, and then get over it, and on to making our Company a Great Airline. AWA was a solid carrier. If the East guys go down this road, they are going to lose. ALPA cares more about ALPA that US Air East. I’m sure ALPA has a few tricks of it’s own to fire back at the East guys. Your Leadership Team is hurting you by not forcing you to accept the ruling. "We will figure a way out" sets bad expectations – hmmm, just like DOH and nothing else. The East guys could jeopardize the flying on their side of the certificate if management thinks pilots are not doing their job to the extent that it jeopardizes the operation. You guys are playing with fire with this kind of “loose-talk” and it belongs behind closed doors. West pilots are tolerant, but we are not stupid. You won’t take our livelihood away with your “burn the house down, get rid of ALPA so we don’t have to use the list” … Management will not stand for it and they will whittle away your flying if you persist in costing them money. How about we stop all recalls to the EAST and start offering recalls to the West certificate (as allowed by the transition agreement). Don’t want to accept recall to the WEST, then we hire off the street. Management could sell your airplanes and whittle you down and then add new jets to our side and expand the flying over here with new hardware. You guys need to get a clue. Make your presentation to the BOD at ALPA and then accept the ruling and move on. Nobody out West is screaming that our #1-10 Captains now have 500 dudes in front of them. Let's move on toghether.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

A buddy of miine in Herndon tells me that this has the Executives at ALPA energized in a way that he has never seen before...Good luck to all involved...

 

[Killer]

I really don't understand why the west side thinks that they are the financial savior of the east side, and deserve all the future upgrades, when 80% of the current profits and revenue come from the east operation. What is wrong with fencing off, or operating seperatly, both operations. Seems to me that preserves both sides future expectations of what they had before the merger. And keeps either side from taking advantage of the other.

No matter what the outcome, of the combined list, the airline operation on the east coast is not a sustainable business and the west side doesn't see this because they really don't go thru PHL much. Doesn't really matter what the list looks like, because at this rate the company won't be in business thru the next down turn.

By the why, I had 13 yrs at US Airways and couldn't aford the 50% buy cut I would take to come back and fly with the west side, or the east side, for an airline that continueally screwed me for the whole time I was there.

But I do miss the 10% of the pilot group that I think are great guys.

 

[Larcifer]

Two financially sh**ty companies, one in bankruptcy the other soon to follow. Yes I know that the "west" side will disagree with that as strongly as the "east" side will say they wouldn't have liquidated. It doesn't really matter they were both financially and market challenged airlines that needed each other to exist. Unfortunately all the dynamics involved with a merger, labor being one of the biggest obstacles, will eventually lead to the pre-merger inevitability. Both airlines disappearing for the betterment of industry.

 

[vtwin]

"...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Why not just fence us off till all you dorks retire. Wait a minute even better, fence us off and then I'll apply at USAir east, get hired and then randomly sh!t in flight bags left in the crew room.

I think I might be onto something here....

Grog, the self appointed AWA punk village idiot. One of many.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

You should put a comma between "punk" and "village." One thing about our threads on this topic lately the spelling and grammar have been impeccable.

Lets try and keep that going shall we....

 

[PositiveRate]

We can either fight together to bring everyone's pay and QOL back to a level that we all deserve and have earned or we can engage in a civil war that will kill or cripple our employer. I pity anyone who would choose the later simply to spite the West.

There's only one way forward now. Management just slapped us in the face with their proposal yesterday...We all lose if we choose the wrong battle.

 

[Fast43]

The decertification threat sounds a little desperate and shows a certain amount of weakness. I don't see how the East pilots can force the west pilots, who operate under a separate CBA and have their own MEC out of ALPA against their will.



I'm sure you have read other posts on this board. These guys believe that they are writing the script. They thought that if they said DOH enough times that the Arbitrator would fall in line since thats they way they said it should be. Thinking that they could force us out of ALPA if that is what they want is no suprise. If you told them we were going to force them out of ALPA, they would laugh.

I wonder what Parker will do with them when they have no Collective Bargining Agent??

 

[Fast43]

.

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.


Maybe so,

I hear that the PIT,PHL guys sort of hold the rest hostage. Put PHX in the mix and the balance could turn.

Could be Crow on the BBQ

food for thought!!!

 

[Green]

What is wrong with fencing off, or operating seperatly, both operations. Seems to me that preserves both sides future expectations of what they had before the merger. .

why would we voluntarily limit our careers? Obviously AWA has been pouring all its' resources into the east side. Our hiring stopped and all recalls/new equipment has gone east. Now you expect us to just give all that away...lol...? Binding arbitration is binding.

 

[Fast43]

US was about to be liquidated and all of the majors were just salivating over the gates. The top 500 guys should be VERY greatful for where they are...they have jobs. This crap of saying that you deserve to be above the HP pilots is a LOAD! Without the AWA purchase, you ALL would have been on the street! Now stop your b!tching and get a good contract....TOGETHER!

Truly this is the voice of reason. Here is what I believe to be a commuter guy summing it crystal clear like.


Makes me think of that show.............are you smarter than a 5th Grader!!!

 

[Fast43]

Two financially sh**ty companies, one in bankruptcy the other soon to follow. Yes I know that the "west" side will disagree with that as strongly as the "east" side will say they wouldn't have liquidated. It doesn't really matter they were both financially and market challenged airlines that needed each other to exist. Unfortunately all the dynamics involved with a merger, labor being one of the biggest obstacles, will eventually lead to the pre-merger inevitability. Both airlines disappearing for the betterment of industry.

Read the actual award and you will see that the Neutral Arbitrator saw that they (AAA) were facing IMMINENT DEMISE and AWA was not.


It's not Rocket Science..............they had no Career Expectations!!!

 

[Crzipilot]

why would we voluntarily limit our careers? Obviously AWA has been pouring all its' resources into the east side. Our hiring stopped and all recalls/new equipment has gone east. Now you expect us to just give all that away...lol...? Binding arbitration is binding.

Well with the little bit of new equipment that has come to the east side, I believe the givebacks have come from the east side too. 3 new ETOPS 757, 3 others returned to Lessors. Couple of 190's (with ********************ty pay) and now there's what 7 737's going back. I believe there's more 757 slated to go away too....so ya, new airplanes have come, but old ones have left. The fences, well put them up, and any growth is fair game, but fence off positions from a certain date, and go from there. How would that be limiting your career??? You'd get all the growth out of PHX/LAS. Essentially what you expected. And you'd then share the growth on the east side, which you wouldn't have expected as a stand alone (new destinations to europe planned each year) And if they used the merged seniority list to manage who gets what position on the growth, don't know how that would be limiting your career???

 

[UALjan15]

...The fences, well put them up, and any growth is fair game, but fence off positions from a certain date, and go from there. How would that be limiting your career??? You'd get all the growth out of PHX/LAS. Essentially what you expected. And you'd then share the growth on the east side, which you wouldn't have expected as a stand alone (new destinations to europe planned each year) And if they used the merged seniority list to manage who gets what position on the growth, don't know how that would be limiting your career???

Already this merger has meant 2 years of stagnation out west (no pilots hired, only one upgrade class, and multiple airframes lost). Fences sound reasonable at first blush, but because Tempe has decided to expand the east operation (which may continue), we're losing career expectations of growth and movement right now. Forgive me if I don't get too excited about signing up for a career of stagnation.

 

[Minimaniac]

Just remember, without the East guys onboard with the integration and merger goals of the new combined company, the new company WILL fail. A large group of disgruntled pilots are likely to cause slow downs or find ways to incur huge, crippling costs on the airline. So go ahead and taunt the East guys like a bunch of children, Westies, but realize that you are only increasing the likelihood that you all will be out looking for jobs.

The arbitration may be binding, but no one is required to show up work...

 

[Doug Parker]

.

So go ahead and taunt the East guys like a bunch of children, Westies, but realize that you are only increasing the likelihood that you all will be out looking for jobs.


It's a lot easier for the younger West pilots to start over if needed.

Who the hell is gonna hire a bunch of stuipid crusty old fokkers that just burned down their own house because they didn't get their way ????

Can you say "Welcome to Walmart" - Beyotch !!!


.

 

[On Your Six]

Already this merger has meant 2 years of stagnation out west (no pilots hired, only one upgrade class, and multiple airframes lost). Fences sound reasonable at first blush, but because Tempe has decided to expand the east operation (which may continue), we're losing career expectations of growth and movement right now. Forgive me if I don't get too excited about signing up for a career of stagnation.

As a United furloughee at least you can return to UAL and avoid this situation - right?

I can't imagine that recall numbers will be that great after this debacle. Who would want to return to this mess?????????????? I agree that upgrades and movement will be fairly slow - not an attractive option when you think about it. But at least Delta is hiring 40-50 per month!!!!!

 

[johnnyb]

Already this merger has meant 2 years of stagnation out west (no pilots hired, only one upgrade class, and multiple airframes lost).

Same on the East for the most part.

I think you are forgetting a $9B take over attempt recently. Do you think 22 (or so) Arbi deliveries would have leveraged AWA into an economic powerhouse able to do that deal as a stand alone carrier?

The 2 are obviously more than the financial sum of their parts and THAT is what will provide a career in an industry poised to consolidate.