USAirways (East) pilots prepare for all out war...

[Fly-n-hi]

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.

We didn't decide on the list. The arbirtator, whom your MEC agreed to, decided it. Your MEC and our MEC agreed to binding arbitration. That doesn't mean arbitration that fits your likings...it means you accept the outcome. Now act like freakin' professionals and accept it.

This "we'll take it out on the AWA pilots" attidude isn't going to go over well. You should be careful how you treat us because your "voting power" will be gone in 10 years. Then we'll be the majority. At that point you better hope we're not pissed off at you.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

When people say this you know you should be concerned... I'm sure the East people will appreciate your viewpoint.

When this is the counterpoint to your argument you know you have nothing to be concerned about.

 

[PositiveRate]

Nothing would have made them happy beyond turning the clock back to 2000.

Right now, there's a desperate attempt out East to preserve "their attrition" for their own. They are grasping at the false hope of a "fix" that could make the arbitrator's ruling more paletable.

Thing is, though, before the merger their attrition meant squat - I know there will undoubtedly be a vocal group that disagrees with that premise, but there is little proof that expectations were anywhere but in the toilet before the deal was announced. A neutral arbitrator agreed. The vocals back East are trying to preserve an asset that was born from the merger. What you "owned" prior to the merger was a dying airline at best. All of the positives - recalls, attrition potential, general stability, financial cushions and growth potential - those are all a result of the merger and we all own that together whether you like it or not.

Talks of permanant base fences, refusal to sign a joint contract, etc are an arrogant and pathetic attempt once again to box the West pilots from anything good that may come from this debacle of a merger. This was attempted unsuccessfully by your merger committee and will fail again.

The scary feeling I have is that, maybe US Airways' destiny was to fail. It seems there are a group back East willing to see that through before they 'cede' to the West - in that case, Doug Parker has tied many thousands of livelihoods to an anchor that was destined to sink out of existance.

The louder this fight gets, the more uncertain our future becomes. If we cannot or refuse not to unite to fight for a contract that we all deserve and have earned, we will all suffer together. To think that the East alone can prosper via the tactics described in the first post of this thread is beyond foolish.

 

[Green]

Probably if the east retirements were protected for the east pilots, that would probably be enough.

Be carefull how you treat the east pilots, because as soon as the new list is in place, their voting power will eat you alive.

This happened, when we had a North and South division. Pittsburgh got whatever they wanted.

Again, I would hate to be the first west pilot to bid an east crewbase. This is going to get ugly.

If everyone stays on their side of the Mississippi, things may work out.

who cares about your (east side) voting power?? We all want the same things, more money and more days off. The majority of our reps are marginal at best, go ahead and replace them!!! Our phx fo rep is continually flying 100 hours per month in the middle of a Do Your Own Job Campaign. The best thing we have going for us is a stellar merger committee and if we were smart we would hire the AWA MC to run the JNC talks.

As for "again, I would hate to be the first west pilot to bid an east crewbase..." That's just lame. I definitely understand the bitterness and anger but it's sad to see such a mature pilot group act like thughs on these message boards. It goes from burn the place down, to replace alpa and try to change the rules after the game, to we're going to beat you up/sh$t in your flightbag. Whatever guys.....I tend to think the crazy posters are not working line piltos, but who knows.

I say lets fight for a decent contract with fo wages equal to current captain wages and nobody loses. Operating under LOA 93 forever just to spite AWA pilots does not help your cause. It just costs you a lot in lost earnings and time away from family.

 

[Hpilot]

Nothing is going to happen. The East MEC will try this obsurd separation BS and fail miserably. It will just give the East folks a false sense of hope. When it goes down in flames they'll me more pissed off than they are now.

When it comes to voting in a new contract it will pass...assuming its a decent one. The top 524 East people aren't going to vote no. Most of the East CA's will not vote no and the senior East FO's will not vote no. Most of the AWA pilots will not vote no. Who's left? Just a couple hundred junior East FO's.

We have nothing to worry about.[/quote]

When people say this you know you should be concerned... I'm sure the East people will appreciate your viewpoint.

I love the companies proposed pay rates. It's obvious I'm going to get to subsidize all the east senior pilots. You can bet the bean counters looked at all the max year FOs on the east when they prepared this joke of a proposal. It's amazing they think they're the ones getting screwed.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I can't believe what a bunch of sophomoric children you're being on both sides of the Mississippi. When you go out of business as a result of labor discord than you can all look for jobs together, and all start at the bottom of some other seniority list together - furloughees and non-furloughees alike.

-Furloughed March 02

 

[Tomct]

US was about to be liquidated and all of the majors were just salivating over the gates. The top 500 guys should be VERY greatful for where they are...they have jobs. This crap of saying that you deserve to be above the HP pilots is a LOAD! Without the AWA purchase, you ALL would have been on the street! Now stop your b!tching and get a good contract....TOGETHER!

 

[MK82Man]

Big Motor -- Thanks for posting the info.

I really believe at this point the East Guys may be going off the deep end. That the East MEC and Jack Stephen would let that kind of rhetoric get out and on the street in absolutely unbelievable. If the EAST MEC is sending this type of rant via email or phone recording – they are just nuts. The West understands the East is upset. Get through the process, and then get over it, and on to making our Company a Great Airline. AWA was a solid carrier. If the East guys go down this road, they are going to lose. ALPA cares more about ALPA that US Air East. I’m sure ALPA has a few tricks of it’s own to fire back at the East guys. Your Leadership Team is hurting you by not forcing you to accept the ruling. "We will figure a way out" sets bad expectations – hmmm, just like DOH and nothing else. The East guys could jeopardize the flying on their side of the certificate if management thinks pilots are not doing their job to the extent that it jeopardizes the operation. You guys are playing with fire with this kind of “loose-talk” and it belongs behind closed doors. West pilots are tolerant, but we are not stupid. You won’t take our livelihood away with your “burn the house down, get rid of ALPA so we don’t have to use the list” … Management will not stand for it and they will whittle away your flying if you persist in costing them money. How about we stop all recalls to the EAST and start offering recalls to the West certificate (as allowed by the transition agreement). Don’t want to accept recall to the WEST, then we hire off the street. Management could sell your airplanes and whittle you down and then add new jets to our side and expand the flying over here with new hardware. You guys need to get a clue. Make your presentation to the BOD at ALPA and then accept the ruling and move on. Nobody out West is screaming that our #1-10 Captains now have 500 dudes in front of them. Let's move on toghether.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

A buddy of miine in Herndon tells me that this has the Executives at ALPA energized in a way that he has never seen before...Good luck to all involved...

 

[Killer]

I really don't understand why the west side thinks that they are the financial savior of the east side, and deserve all the future upgrades, when 80% of the current profits and revenue come from the east operation. What is wrong with fencing off, or operating seperatly, both operations. Seems to me that preserves both sides future expectations of what they had before the merger. And keeps either side from taking advantage of the other.

No matter what the outcome, of the combined list, the airline operation on the east coast is not a sustainable business and the west side doesn't see this because they really don't go thru PHL much. Doesn't really matter what the list looks like, because at this rate the company won't be in business thru the next down turn.

By the why, I had 13 yrs at US Airways and couldn't aford the 50% buy cut I would take to come back and fly with the west side, or the east side, for an airline that continueally screwed me for the whole time I was there.

But I do miss the 10% of the pilot group that I think are great guys.

 

[Larcifer]

Two financially sh**ty companies, one in bankruptcy the other soon to follow. Yes I know that the "west" side will disagree with that as strongly as the "east" side will say they wouldn't have liquidated. It doesn't really matter they were both financially and market challenged airlines that needed each other to exist. Unfortunately all the dynamics involved with a merger, labor being one of the biggest obstacles, will eventually lead to the pre-merger inevitability. Both airlines disappearing for the betterment of industry.

 

[vtwin]

"...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Why not just fence us off till all you dorks retire. Wait a minute even better, fence us off and then I'll apply at USAir east, get hired and then randomly sh!t in flight bags left in the crew room.

I think I might be onto something here....

Grog, the self appointed AWA punk village idiot. One of many.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

You should put a comma between "punk" and "village." One thing about our threads on this topic lately the spelling and grammar have been impeccable.

Lets try and keep that going shall we....

 

[PositiveRate]

We can either fight together to bring everyone's pay and QOL back to a level that we all deserve and have earned or we can engage in a civil war that will kill or cripple our employer. I pity anyone who would choose the later simply to spite the West.

There's only one way forward now. Management just slapped us in the face with their proposal yesterday...We all lose if we choose the wrong battle.

 

[Fast43]

The decertification threat sounds a little desperate and shows a certain amount of weakness. I don't see how the East pilots can force the west pilots, who operate under a separate CBA and have their own MEC out of ALPA against their will.



I'm sure you have read other posts on this board. These guys believe that they are writing the script. They thought that if they said DOH enough times that the Arbitrator would fall in line since thats they way they said it should be. Thinking that they could force us out of ALPA if that is what they want is no suprise. If you told them we were going to force them out of ALPA, they would laugh.

I wonder what Parker will do with them when they have no Collective Bargining Agent??