New Jetblue pay raise!

[Frank Lorenzo]

I have to say that reading this thread I am all busted up inside hearing that there is trouble in paradise at JBLU.

I think you need a change at the top. My services are always available. If you don't want me, I heard this guy is available

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Smith

Good luck trash pickers, and watch out for those icebergs!

 

[J32driver]

Good luck trash pickers, and watch out for those icebergs!

Come on Frank... I expect a bit more wit than that from you!

 

[instructordude]

I was looking at the new pay rates at Jetblue. If I upgrade i will only be making about 15K less per year than a Jetblue 190 Capt. Suprising.

 

[jbvt]

I was looking at the new pay rates at Jetblue. If I upgrade i will only be making about 15K less per year than a Jetblue 190 Capt. Suprising.

Use it to go back to school to learn how to spell, scab.

 

[instructordude]

Use it to go back to school to learn how to spell, scab.

I no how to spell big guy.

 

[Skyboy722]

I no how to spell big guy.

Some funny $hit right there!

 

[Spectre]

I don't have a problem with the first year pay. It's better than most. The problem is the quick upgrade to 320 CA has disappeared and now the new guys have to try and make a living on FO pay for 4-5 years. If someone can get hired at SWA, FedEx, or UPS they can make a LOT more in their second and subsequent years than they can at JetBlue. A LOT more.

The new pay scale doesn't give me a 20% raise for year 2, it gives me a dollar an hour raise. I was already going to get $56 and change, now I'm going to get $57 and change. Whoopty fricking do. Also, no retro for me because I'm just finishing my first year so the only bonus I get is to keep my current rate.

If they really want to stop the bleeding of 1st and 2nd year FOs leaving they are gonna have to do better on year 2/3 pay. Year one we're in good shape compared to everyone else. Then the wheels fall off. That's why people are leaving. It isn't the culture or lack thereof. Show me the money.

If you really want to retain your new hires, I think JB management should have given the A320 Captains a raise. Here's why. Upgrade at JB even to the A320 Captain is still less time than at any other major. New hires will want to stay for the future of attaining those higher Captain rates (ie $200/hour). This is the simple reason why people leave their Regional Captain job paying $80K to goto a legacy and make less pay in the right seat as a new hire...All in hopes of making more money when you move to the left seat. That's how you solve attrition.

Regardless of what you think, FOs can be easily replaced. Only a handful of A320 Captains have left JetBlue. From management's perspective, JetBlue can run a safe airline as long as the Captains stay. FO's with 500 hours total time can fly with these Captains and you'll still have a safe operation. Where JetBlue has gone wrong is to split wage increases between different pilot positions/equipment. What should have been done as with other airlines is to determine the base pay for your highest paying position (A320 Captain). You then take a percentage of that pay and apply it to the other crew positions. Thus, when JetBlue gives a raise, all the crew positions will get the same percentage increase.

 

[Spectre]

You can't depend on premium pay. I have been here 1.5 years, sit reserve in LGB and have only broken guarantee ONCE.

You live in LGB by choice and are sitting on reserve by choice. With 1.5 years at JB, you can hold a decent line at JFK, fly lots of hours and make decent pay by breaking through min guarantee. No sympathy for you.

 

[Splert]

If you really want to retain your new hires, I think JB management should have given the A320 Captains a raise. Here's why. Upgrade at JB even to the A320 Captain is still less time than at any other major.

Yet at other airlines you don't have to upgrade to make a living and fund a retirement and have QOL will wanting to have QOL after an upgrade.

New hires will want to stay for the future of attaining those higher Captain rates (ie $200/hour). This is the simple reason why people leave their Regional Captain job paying $80K to goto a legacy and make less pay in the right seat as a new hire...All in hopes of making more money when you move to the left seat. That's how you solve attrition.

New hires want QOL and decent pay. jetBlue offers zero QOL to new hires and 7 years or more before they would break even. Remember a new hire still have to recoup the money they did not earn by taking a job a jetBlue. Then a new hire would have to suck up JFK for most of the rest of their career. Making less than what a 7th year CA at jetBlue makes isn't worth the paying of dues all over again. Now, if growth crew bases where in other part of the country where they could afford to live with the family then all bets are off.

Regardless of what you think, FOs can be easily replaced.

Patience, you are about to eat your words. This summer's fly is in the hands of those you think are so easy to replace. I only takes a second or minute or two to quit and then 3-4 months to hire and train.

Only a handful of A320 Captains have left JetBlue. From management's perspective, JetBlue can run a safe airline as long as the Captains stay. FO's with 500 hours total time can fly with these Captains and you'll still have a safe operation.

If jetBlue management really thinks this way then you better start looking for a new job. CA are not perfect and Saftey is certainly not the number one value.

Where JetBlue has gone wrong is to split wage increases between different pilot positions/equipment. What should have been done as with other airlines is to determine the base pay for your highest paying position (A320 Captain). You then take a percentage of that pay and apply it to the other crew positions. Thus, when JetBlue gives a raise, all the crew positions will get the same percentage increase.

Where jetBlue has gone wrong it base 90% of the airline where 99.99% of its crews (FAs included) don't want to ever live or could afford to live.

Good Day

 

[IronCityBlue]

slightly myopic IMO

If you really want to retain your new hires, I think JB management should have given the A320 Captains a raise. Here's why. Upgrade at JB even to the A320 Captain is still less time than at any other major. New hires will want to stay for the future of attaining those higher Captain rates (ie $200/hour). This is the simple reason why people leave their Regional Captain job paying $80K to goto a legacy and make less pay in the right seat as a new hire...All in hopes of making more money when you move to the left seat. That's how you solve attrition.

Regardless of what you think, FOs can be easily replaced. Only a handful of A320 Captains have left JetBlue. From management's perspective, JetBlue can run a safe airline as long as the Captains stay. FO's with 500 hours total time can fly with these Captains and you'll still have a safe operation. Where JetBlue has gone wrong is to split wage increases between different pilot positions/equipment. What should have been done as with other airlines is to determine the base pay for your highest paying position (A320 Captain). You then take a percentage of that pay and apply it to the other crew positions. Thus, when JetBlue gives a raise, all the crew positions will get the same percentage increase.

Your theory has some merit. Of course people will accept less now to make more later...to a point. People don't leave that "$80k regional captain job" to go to a legacy because of the mirage of 777 CA pay decades down the road. They do it first for the narrowbody FO pay which rapidly improoves after first year, as well as widebody FO pay not too long after that and of course superior retirement and work rules.

As for what JB management should have done, sure a bigger carrot in terms of 320 Captain pay would help some "keep their eyes on the prize." But the first thing they had to do was narrow the Captain:FO and 320:190 differentials. That had to be done before they simply raised the 320 Captain pay. They almost did what was necessary in those regards, but came up just short, although progress certainly was made. Once those issues get fixed, I agree, raise 320 Captain pay and set percentages for the rest.

As for FO's being "easilly replaceable" I think the 320 FO reserve grid and cancelled upgrade classes due to FO shortages begs to differ. They can upgrade a CA in a couple weeks (in about the time a new hire takes to give notice to their previous employer) but it takes many months to interview, hire, and train a new hire FO. Cancelling upgrade classes and pulling FO's off the line to instruct in an attempt to cover for higher attrition on the FO side is akin to burning the furniture to heat the house. Gets the job done today, but at a fantastic price for the future.

Many guys who leave for greener pastures, like SWA, UPS, FedEx, etc. as well as those taking recall to their prior legacy need look no further than those company's FO pay and retirements for all the financial reasoning they need. And the merger protections of those other companys isn't too shabby by comparison either. I know, its being "worked on as we speak."

 

[GogglesPisano]

Upgrade at JB even to the A320 Captain is still less time than at any other major. .

Are you including CAL?

 

[mannyaplus11]

You live in LGB by choice and are sitting on reserve by choice. With 1.5 years at JB, you can hold a decent line at JFK, fly lots of hours and make decent pay by breaking through min guarantee. No sympathy for you.

I wasn't asking for sympathy, I was just giving this gentleman some information about premium pay. You can't always count on it. I know some JFK people that are holding lines and they can't break guarantee either.

I chose LGB and I save myself the cost of a crashpad in Screw Gardens ($300) and a transcon commute.

 

[FCNelson]

Yet at other airlines you don't have to upgrade to make a living and fund a retirement and have QOL will wanting to have QOL after an upgrade.

New hires want QOL and decent pay. jetBlue offers zero QOL to new hires and 7 years or more before they would break even. Remember a new hire still have to recoup the money they did not earn by taking a job a jetBlue. Then a new hire would have to suck up JFK for most of the rest of their career. Making less than what a 7th year CA at jetBlue makes isn't worth the paying of dues all over again. Now, if growth crew bases where in other part of the country where they could afford to live with the family then all bets are off.

Patience, you are about to eat your words. This summer's fly is in the hands of those you think are so easy to replace. I only takes a second or minute or two to quit and then 3-4 months to hire and train.

If jetBlue management really thinks this way then you better start looking for a new job. CA are not perfect and Saftey is certainly not the number one value.

Where jetBlue has gone wrong it base 90% of the airline where 99.99% of its crews (FAs included) don't want to ever live or could afford to live.

Good Day

Do you think B6 will ever open an MCO base?

I've heard there are upwards of 300 crew members who commute from there?

It would be logical, based on all the airplanes you guys overnight there.

Any other new possibilities for basing? I thought when you guys started moving into IAD that your operation there would get bigger - it seems fairly stagnant although you are adding MCO - IAD soon.

FCN

 

[Splert]

Do you think B6 will ever open an MCO base?

I've heard there are upwards of 300 crew members who commute from there?

It would be logical, based on all the airplanes you guys overnight there.

Any other new possibilities for basing? I thought when you guys started moving into IAD that your operation there would get bigger - it seems fairly stagnant although you are adding MCO - IAD soon.

FCN

I have heard from M St.G that the answer is no. The next domicle is OAK and bay area. But that is a rumor that is getting very old. Rumors to me however just help keep people motivated. You know the old good things are coming kind of stuff so please keep rowing the ship up stream together.

The biggest reason I hear from guys that turn down JB is they don't want to commute to JFK the rest of my life. This is a structure problem that will be very hard to correct anytime soon.

Good Day

 

[J32driver]

I have heard from M St.G that the answer is no. The next domicle is OAK and bay area. But that is a rumor that is getting very old. Rumors to me however just help keep people motivated. You know the old good things are coming kind of stuff so please keep rowing the ship up stream together.

The biggest reason I hear from guys that turn down JB is they don't want to commute to JFK the rest of my life. This is a structure problem that will be very hard to correct anytime soon.

Good Day

Supposedly from a checkairmen meeting about two weeks ago:
the MCO base was going to be a go for about 30 crews. Direct result of the Valentine's Day massacre and not being able to get crewmembers to JFK.