NETJETS Seat Lock and Upgrade Section 5.3

[PUCKFA18]

Netjets Contract 5.3
Hired Nov 2005


A lot of us are coming up on our first seat lock release date (2 years). Upgrades are at snell pace. I’m showing about 300 numbers out from last upgrade. A lot of us are interpreting the contract differently. I was hoping to get clarifications.

Situation: If at my termination of my seat lock date(Uboat), I choose to move to another aircraft as an FO(DA-2000,G-200,DA-2000Easy). Are we still eligible for any Capt upgrade award within my new two year seat lock. I referenced Section 5.3 and do not have a clear understanding. One section, or sub section says yes, but another leaves you in the gray area. Any thoughts, or advice? Thanks in advance.

 

[jtf]

On the union website they have had this discussion and it has been decided that you will be seat locked for 2 more years (3 on the G-IV) if you take a different FO seat. I'm not far behind you. The only FO position I've got on my bid is BBJ. I'm not getting locked until year 4 for anything less. I'm guessing on upgrading by the end of year three at the latest unless something really bad happens to the industry.

 

[PUCKFA18]

Seat Lock Issue

Thanks jtf for the gouge

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Check out 5.3(b).

It says if you bid and are awarded a capt or fo position you are seat and equipment locked for 2 years. The only exception to the 2 yrs seat and equipment lock is the BBJ.

 

[PUCKFA18]

Seat Lock Issue

be-400xpdriver.........thanks for your input. But, what about

5.3 (a) (i)
5.3 (a) (ii)
5.3 (a) (ii) 2 ??

Thanks again for your input

 

[PUCKFA18]

Seat Lock Issue

jtf is letter a lOA from the union clairifying the seat lock issue? Thanks

 

[be-400xpdriver]

be-400xpdriver.........thanks for your input. But, what about

5.3 (a) (i)
5.3 (a) (ii)
5.3 (a) (ii) 2 ??

Thanks again for your input

5.3(a)(i) only applies to new hires. If you are here two years and your seat lock is up then you are no longer a new hire.

5.3(a)(ii)(1) and 5.3(a)(ii)(2) applies to fo's, bypass pay and non bypass pay, that where on property before the new contract was signed. It only applies to thier original seat lock that was in existance at the time the contract was signed.

5.3(b) title say it all Subsequent equipment locks. Meaning any equipment/seat lock after your original/new hire seat lock or if your most recent seat lock has expired.

If your origianl seat lock is up then you bid a new fo position then that is a subsequent equipment/seat lock.

 

[PUCKFA18]

5.3 Seat Lock

be-400xpdriver.........Thanks again for the response. Note: I was on property before the signing of the contract. Moreover, why would a new hire or non- bypass FO have more flexibility than some other FO on the seniority list before the contract was signed? If you feel I'm beating a dead horse, or barking up a dead tree.......Please excuse my stupidity bro! These area's seem gray to me??? Maybe I pulled to many "G's"! Thanks again for your input.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

they all have the same flexability. You all did not choose to be in what ever airplane the company put you in and you did not choose the equipment/seat lock. But when you bid another airplane you choose the new equipment/seat lock.

All fo's in thier original lock can bid to capt. If you choose after the lock is up to bid another fo position then you choose the lock. Ask this question on the union board and get the same answer from the union big wigs.

 

[PUCKFA18]

5.3(b)

be-400xpdriver...........Thanks again for the clairification. If you were in my shoes and your seat lock was expiring in NOV and there are 300 guys ahead of you and upgrades are at a snell pace........What would you do? Would you take a chance with another FO seat lock, or would you wait for the upgrade award?Thanks again advance. Heck, anyone else want to chime inn, would be appreciated......

 

[RNObased]

be-400xpdriver...........Thanks again for the clairification. If you were in my shoes and your seat lock was expiring in NOV and there are 300 guys ahead of you and upgrades are at a snell pace........What would you do? Would you take a chance with another FO seat lock, or would you wait for the upgrade award?Thanks again advance. Heck, anyone else want to chime inn, would be appreciated......

Well F18 it depends on what jet you are on. I'm assuming that you are on the Ultra or Encore because of the CE500 type.

If I was in your shoes I would be out of that fleet so fast it would make their heads spin. There are so many cool aircraft to fly at NJA that I would look into that. Here is what I would do in your situation.

1. 2000ez FO: Good flying, with a FA to do the cleaning, cooking and taking care of the pax. You load the box and away you go to wherever the A team flies. Bad, having to fly with some of the A team. Good type to have also

2. 2000 Classic FO: Again a FA on board, good flying and also a good type to have.

3. G200 FO: No FA but better flying then the Ultra and you don't have to deal with the ultra FMs. Good type also.

4. Citation X: Good type to have and good flying also.

5. Soverign: New fleet, probably lots of down time for a FO. I know they are heavy with Capts.

That is all I have. Working in the bigger fleets compared to the smaller one's is like two different companies, sometimes. Sometimes it all sucks equally.

 

[PUCKFA18]

RNO thanks for your insite. You are correct I'm in the Uboat...

 

[FLYLOW22]

3. G200 FO: No FA but better flying then the Ultra and you don't have to deal with the ultra FMs. Good type also.

Hey, the Ultra ain't so bad. Most egos won't fit in the door though!

Ultra flies a few legs and then either doesn't fit the demand for other flight requests or break. Then you sit. Not hard.

P.S. I'd check the IBT site for good info. Call your P2P rep for better info. Contact a Steward for the best.

This site is like COSMO with wings.

 

[cush]

Hey Puck,

If I was you, I would bid the DA2000 or the Easy. You might lose a few months of PIC pay...but then again...maybe not. 300 numbers is a lot at the current rate. I'm in the 2000 classic, life is very good here. IMHO I think it's worth it, you'd enjoy your FO time much more. Then again, I enjoyed my years in the U-boat!

 

[be-400xpdriver]

I would bid FO in the 2000ex/2000, g-200, and hawker 4000.

 

[fischman]

Personally, I would stay on the uboat and wait for the pic bid. The plane isn't that bad, and your hands won't be tied. My $.02

 

[RNObased]

Hey, the Ultra ain't so bad. Most egos won't fit in the door though!

Ultra flies a few legs and then either doesn't fit the demand for other flight requests or break. Then you sit. Not hard.

P.S. I'd check the IBT site for good info. Call your P2P rep for better info. Contact a Steward for the best.

This site is like COSMO with wings.

I liked my time in the Ultra. Do I miss it??? No.

My main issues with that fleet were the schedulers, and the nasty FMs.
and frying like a blister in the sun in the summer.

 

[PUCKFA18]

Thanks guys for your thoughts and insite. I think I will lay in the weeds until Oct, while monitoring the progress of upgrade's. If the upgrades remain at a snell pace, I will bid FO.

 

[NJA bound]

You should visit the NetJets message boards at www.IBT1108.org/public_nja_pilots.html quite a few other Jarhead Hornet pilots hang out there along with a lot of your Teamster brothers.

In 7 mths when your lock is up I'd put some money on it that you'll be within 3 mths of upgrading in the Encore, Beechjet or Uboat.

 

[hydrarkt]

DO NOT bid the X!!! YOu will regret it. You will work harder than the U boat and your ass will hurt from the lOOOOONG flights.. been there and glad to now be in the XL.

 

[PUCKFA18]

THANKS GUYS for your help

Thanks for your help guys. I got the answers I was looking for.

Cheers!

 

[Floyd94]

If the upgrades remain at a snell pace, I will bid FO.

It amazes me that someone would consider 2 years to upgrade, a "snell"s pace. I think you ment "snail" however. Eitherway, I guess you have never been furloughed or even talked to anyone at AE that has been in the right seat for 6+ years and still waiting to upgrade.

Everything is relative... In my opinion, two years to upgrade is incredible! Especially for a company like NetJets. Hopefully it holds out for all the newhires.

 

[LostComm]

Everything is relative... In my opinion, two years to upgrade is incredible! Especially for a company like NetJets. Hopefully it holds out for all the newhires.

It can't. The "late comers" will end up at the bottom of a list that is no longer growing due to expansion, since RTS has made it clear that there are limits to how big he wants this organization to be.

Those who come after that magic point will only see upgrades through attrition, and they will be FO's for a very long time. We don't have to leave at 60.

Do the math. It's not rocket science. I've stated before that domiciles will not be as big an issue for future newhires as FO pay. I doubt many will be happy in year five or six still not seeing an upgrade in sight getting mid 40's. That will be the fate of the late comers.

How late is late? Nobody knows since our ultimate growth will only be seen with time. At least there's no pay for training.

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYD: thanks for your advice and the spelling lesson. I was typing from my blackberry, no excuse My situation would be closer to 4+ years to upgrade. The seat lock is 2 years.

LostComm: I'm somewhat in agreement with your explanation. RTS told us in recurrent that his goal would be 5000 pilots. But, he also said, that may not be possible, because this business model will "TOP OUT" at some point. The 5000 pilot’s goal was in next 8 - 10 years. Again, this is only an estimated goal by RTS. NO GUARENTEES!!!!

 

[Floyd94]

It can't. The "late comers" will end up at the bottom of a list that is no longer growing due to expansion, since RTS has made it clear that there are limits to how big he wants this organization to be.
.

I would have to argue that those that are hired this year will probably see a 2-3 year upgrade. Based on the business model of 4-5000 pilots on property being the ultimate goal, that puts the majority of newhires roughly half way up the list. What percent of pilots on the seniority list are PIC's again?

This year alone NetJets is netting 36 airframes. Thats huge growth. I was told that they can't make the XL's fast enough, and that they are sold out months in advance before even landing on property. Seems like a good time to get your foot in the door to me.

 

[Floyd94]

My situation would be closer to 4+ years to upgrade. The seat lock is 2 years.

Now you've managed to confuse me. (Which isn't very hard by the way) Didn't you say you were hired Nov. 2005 and looking at a possible upgrade roughly the end of this year?

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYDu are correct about Nov 05. However, I'm 300 numbers out from last upgrade. Therefore, based on current snail pace upgrades. that would take at least another 2+ years to upgrade, making a total of 4+ years on campus. Moreover bro.........I was furloughed from the major's and will not go back. Again, thanks for your input and advice.

 

[imacdog]

For those planning on making a career out of NetJets, even a 5-6 year upgrade wouldn't be that bad. Sure, living on FO pay for a couple/few years more than some pilots wouldn't be a great deal, but you still have your years of service when upgrading instead of starting at the bottom of the Captain payscale. Just compare the upgrade time at NetJets with many major airlines and you can see it's quite reasonable, even for those getting hired now.

 

[PUCKFA18]

imacdog: Good point, and I agree! I would just perfer to hangout in a larger airframe (DA-2000, Example), than the uboat until upgrade arrives. I NETJETS all the way till retirement. I love the place!

 

[imacdog]

Puck, I haven't even started class yet but if you are looking for a change from your current airframe I say bid a different plane and have fun with it. It could be quite a while to hold something like the G-200 or Falcon as a Captain, so it might be worth taking the opportunity to try out one of those planes now, while you are still an FO. How often do airplane/upgrade bids come out there?