ALPA chest thumpers

[PCL_128]

Translation: I am an ALPA apoligist and we want SkyWest pilots dues ASAP

As always, you're completely clueless. Bringing Skywest into ALPA will actually cost ALPA more money, because none of the ALPA regionals pay enough in dues to cover their own costs. The majors have to subsidize us. That means that you will probably increase our costs by about $2+ million, but you'll only contribute about $1.2 million in dues revenue (rough estimates). That's a net loss of $800k to the Association each year.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The big stick swung well for us at NJA...

ACAterry...

It has everything to do with your leadership.... not the brand label....

 

[CopilotDoug]

Translation: I am an ALPA apoligist and we want SkyWest pilots dues ASAP

LOL! I couldn't agree more. This "XJT Driver" going around and calling people idiot has to be one of the funnier things I've seen. I have also seen some good points about safety being a self perpetuating business practice, XJT. It doesn't do Boeing any good to build crappy planes. And it doesn't bode well for your airline's business plans to have planes falling out of the sky. Union or not, safety will continue to be paramount. True, at one point the Unions did need to bring it to the forefront, but after that, it developed on it's own. Take away your Unions and Safety will still continue to improve.

 

[CopilotDoug]

As always, you're completely clueless. Bringing Skywest into ALPA will actually cost ALPA more money, because none of the ALPA regionals pay enough in dues to cover their own costs. The majors have to subsidize us. That means that you will probably increase our costs by about $2+ million, but you'll only contribute about $1.2 million in dues revenue (rough estimates). That's a net loss of $800k to the Association each year.

So...are you implying that ALPA is not going to address this out of balance cashflow and will allow the majors to continually subsidize the regionals?

 

[PCL_128]

So...are you implying that ALPA is not going to address this out of balance cashflow and will allow the majors to continually subsidize the regionals?

Not sure what you're getting at here. ALPA has absolutely no intention of changing the dues structure or modifying how the OCF works. The regionals will never be able to support their own costs, so subsidies by the majors are required. It's just accepted as part of being a national union for all pilots.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm just asking if ALPA has any plans to address cost issues regarding regionals? If not...oh well.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm just asking if ALPA has any plans to address cost issues regarding regionals? If not...oh well.

ALPA intends to use pattern bargaining in the next round of contract talks at both regional and major carriers to increase overall revenue. We don't view the current structure as an "issue" at all. It's just the reality of the revenue stream since 1.95% of regional salaries simply won't cover all expenses. That's fine, because the major carriers can provide a surplus which can make up for the shortfalls at the regionals and smaller carriers. It would be excellent to bring regional salaries up to the point where their MECs would be self-sustaining, but it will take several great bargaining cycles to accomplish that. Until we get that lucky, the present system will function just fine like it has for a very long time.

 

[BigMeat]

Bush and his Daddy helped ruin the airlines. Starting with Eastern to taxes imposed on 9/11 to Open Skies. I voted for Kerry and I hated him too. Hopefully this time around we will have a pro-labor Presidential candidate worth voting for. For now Im going for Obama! Im not a lib. but I am a concervative Democrat. A pilot voting for a Republican is like a black guy voting for David Duke.

Im glad Prater was in the meeting. I think with him in office and everyone nearing their contracts we can start jacking up the house again!

ALPA CHEST THUMPER

 

[CopilotDoug]

ALPA intends to use pattern bargaining in the next round of contract talks at both regional and major carriers to increase overall revenue. We don't view the current structure as an "issue" at all. It's just the reality of the revenue stream since 1.95% of regional salaries simply won't cover all expenses. That's fine, because the major carriers can provide a surplus which can make up for the shortfalls at the regionals and smaller carriers. It would be excellent to bring regional salaries up to the point where their MECs would be self-sustaining, but it will take several great bargaining cycles to accomplish that. Until we get that lucky, the present system will function just fine like it has for a very long time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't ALPA gone bankrupt in the past?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Everyone expects ALPA to do something... what that something is...nobody seems to know...
Here's a start: I expect the Union leaders to have access to Management's "books"
If there is a profit being made by the company - Absolutely NO paycuts
If the company posts a loss - Start by first hacking away at management bonuses (including contractual obligations) and continue until the highest paid management worker is making what the highest paid employee is making. THEN you can negotiate pay cuts.
When you have a case like Comair which was making money, nd the pilots still took a paycut, that is when the Union leadership fails the members.

May not be perfect, but it's a start.

What we need is educated and informed members....and we don't.... if members adopted more of a leadership role we would be more effective... instead members sit around complaining .....
Superiority complex or not, Rez, you still have to work with these "sheep" as you like to say. You can put away your office pep-rally cliches (be a leader!) unless you're going to clue everyone in on what you mean. I for one would be interested in the Rez-O-Lewshun Guide to Being a Leader. Any tips?

.....

 

[Ponchus pilot]

I have a solution to put an end to all the ALPA bashing on this forum once and for all. I suggest all you ALPA haters write all your gripes here and sign your real name on the bottom, I will print them and personally send them over to ALPA national. Nothing better than going straight to the source. Also, this way we can make sure that none of you will ever get hired at an ALPA carrier. This way you wont be subject to all the problems that you claim ALPA causes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Take away your Unions and Safety will still continue to improve.

LAHSO
Fatigue
Flight and Duty Time
Contam Runway's
Terrorism..

Yeah... these issues are improving......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bush and his Daddy helped ruin the airlines. Starting with Eastern to taxes imposed on 9/11 to Open Skies. I voted for Kerry and I hated him too. Hopefully this time around we will have a pro-labor Presidential candidate worth voting for. For now Im going for Obama! Im not a lib. but I am a concervative Democrat. A pilot voting for a Republican is like a black guy voting for David Duke.

Meat-

The Republican Air Line Pilot is a paradox.... They just don't seem to get it.... They will vote for the next GOP candidate... Despite the last eight years of anti-labor they will vote GOP again... Which amazes me. Are we Air Line Pilots ready for four more years of this! This is like voting for your torturer...

They will sacrifice this profession, their career and income for hobby issues like guns and abortion. Not realizing that you can DO BOTH!!!

Im glad Prater was in the meeting. I think with him in office and everyone nearing their contracts we can start jacking up the house again!

ALPA CHEST THUMPER

Agreed!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't ALPA gone bankrupt in the past?

Wrong....again......

The only thing that is BK at ALPA is its membership in terms of activism...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

...
Everyone expects ALPA to do something... what that something is...nobody seems to know...
Here's a start: I expect the Union leaders to have access to Management's "books"
If there is a profit being made by the company - Absolutely NO paycuts
If the company posts a loss - Start by first hacking away at management bonuses (including contractual obligations) and continue until the highest paid management worker is making what the highest paid employee is making. THEN you can negotiate pay cuts.
When you have a case like Comair which was making money, nd the pilots still took a paycut, that is when the Union leadership fails the members.

May not be perfect, but it's a start.

ALPA does have access to managements books. It is usually part of a negotiations agreement. And of course in the last five years when managmeent wanted hard concession ALPA looked hard at the books.

You don't seem to grasp a couple of things:

1. It doesn't matter if a company is making money. In this country corporations are first and labor is left behind... Companies got to trick-phcuk the system for the last five years and it was all legal. Welcome to the lovely USA. I am all for Capitalism, but not at my expense.... Is fairness and reasonability.......reasonable?

2. Management gets to hire and fire. IOW... the company says here are the cost savings we will get... we can furlough 500 or every pilot can take concessions are we will furlough 250. Now as a union leader your job to save, protect and promote jobs. Do you want 500 guys NOT to pay thier house note or 250?


What we need is educated and informed members....and we don't.... if members adopted more of a leadership role we would be more effective... instead members sit around complaining .....
Superiority complex or not, Rez, you still have to work with these "sheep" as you like to say. You can put away your office pep-rally cliches (be a leader!) unless you're going to clue everyone in on what you mean. I for one would be interested in the Rez-O-Lewshun Guide to Being a Leader. Any tips?
..

Superiorty complex? Because I say get educated and involved?


Pilots wanting to know what ALPA has done for them when only 5% of the membership shows up to LEC meetings. How is any organization supposed to lead its members when only 5% of the people are present. Can the US Army be effective when only 5% of the force shows up?

Elections: only 30% of an LEC bothers to vote in elections. You don't get to choose your CEO or Chief Pilot but you do get to choose your union leadership.... but yet 70% don't give a damm. They'd rather spend time on Flightinfo, when LEC voting takes 60s on another webpage....

There are basic responsibilites that the average union pilot does not do. I call that a leadership deficiency. When you've got an Air Line Pilot, (we are leaders by default aren't we), that knows rules and regulations and he can't seem to "be a self starter" when it comes to effectively managing his career. The tools and resources are there but he'd rather do nothing and complain that some volunteer isn't living up to his misguided expectations.......

This isn't difficult guys, but obviously it is...

 

[HA25]

Obama would feel right at home in Castro's Cuba. This election cycle is really going to suck.

not so sure about that... I'm liking him and I'm liking Fred Thomson so far.. but I need to know more about Thomson's views on labor and trade.

 

[HA25]

Take away your Unions and Safety will still continue to improve.

NOT..


We're all just meat in the seat to the companies these days, and their actuaries have already crunched the numbers on of accidents will cost vs the money saved by pushing safety.. take for example the "Standups" done at MESA and others that are a constant battle between unions and members of the ATA.

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't ALPA gone bankrupt in the past?

Nope. You're probably thinking of the mid-80s during the CAL strike when ALPA depleted a lot of its financial resources by paying the striking CAL pilots their full salaries. The Association's money was severely depleted, but ALPA has never been bankrupt. The MCF was also created to make sure that we didn't deplete the accounts again during a massive strike effort. The MCF is now self-sustaining and grows every year thanks to smart investing. Captain Beebe has been responsible for ensuring that we didn't go bankrupt during this past down cycle after 9/11. He's done an amazing job in keeping the Association's finances in order after a huge loss in revenue due to the concessions and furloughs.

 

[PCL_128]

They will sacrifice this profession, their career and income for hobby issues like guns and abortion.

Rez, you're never going to convince anyone to vote pro-pilot if you continue to call things like abortion "hobby issues." For people that consider abortion an important issue (like me), we find it extremely grotesque for someone to refer to the senseless murder of unborn children as a "hobby issue." You'll only drive values-voters further to the other side with talk like that.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Nope. You're probably thinking of the mid-80s during the CAL strike when ALPA depleted a lot of its financial resources by paying the striking CAL pilots their full salaries. The Association's money was severely depleted, but ALPA has never been bankrupt. The MCF was also created to make sure that we didn't deplete the accounts again during a massive strike effort. The MCF is now self-sustaining and grows every year thanks to smart investing. Captain Beebe has been responsible for ensuring that we didn't go bankrupt during this past down cycle after 9/11. He's done an amazing job in keeping the Association's finances in order after a huge loss in revenue due to the concessions and furloughs.

Precisely why I prefaced it with "Maybe I'm wrong..."