Non-rev and commuting just got harder

[Bob Runday]

I have tried to implement security at my flight school. I dont think anyone should be on the flight ramp without proper screening!!! They could steal a parachute from one of the airplanes. And then where would you be?

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I know the dip sh!t in FL triggered all of this, but really it makes you wonder why we even bother having the SIDA badges at all.

 

[AV80R]

Tsa!

Thank God for the TSA...I feel so much safer every time an employee of the federal government with a sub-high school level education takes my tube of explosive toothpaste away from me.

Toothpaste? What about turkey sandwich?

TSA training!

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykzqFz_nHZE)

 

[huncowboy]

This may sound like a stupid question, but don't you always have to go thhrough security when you commute? I always have.

I was wondering about the same thing. With the exception of the very occasional outstation that used to let us through w/o TSA, this will not make a huge change to my life.

It suprises my how many people are posting about it. I hate TSA just like everyone else but I thought most of us go through them 99% of the time. I guess not.

 

[atrdriver]

I was wondering about the same thing. With the exception of the very occasional outstation that used to let us through w/o TSA, this will not make a huge change to my life.

It suprises my how many people are posting about it. I hate TSA just like everyone else but I thought most of us go through them 99% of the time. I guess not.

ASA and AAI pilots do not go through security when they duty in in ATL. They have SIDA badges, and are dropped off by the bus at their ops areas. In addition, probably half the outstations that ASA flies to allow the working crew to bypass. That is why people are upset. This is just another dumb feel good rule by an inept agency that is designed to make them look better to the public.

 

[John Pennekamp]

In addition, probably half the outstations that ASA flies to allow the working crew to bypass.

You can probably count on that going away too.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Thank God for the TSA...I feel so much safer every time an employee of the federal government with a sub-high school level education takes my tube of explosive toothpaste away from me.

Toothpaste? What about turkey sandwich?

TSA training!

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykzqFz_nHZE)

It's all about TSA job security. Just think, all of those Thousands Standing Around now have some fresh meat. This will increase traffic through the checkpoints by at least 25%. More TSA jobs, more TSA promotions!

 

[PCL_128]

I don't know why everyone is so upset about this. The rule is unenforceable. They have no way of knowing whether you were screened or not. As far as I'm concerned, there is no new rule.

 

[Booker]

I know the dip sh!t in FL triggered all of this, but really it makes you wonder why we even bother having the SIDA badges at all.

Could be worse: I have a SIDA badge that doesn't do a d@mn thing for me except get me into the parking lot. Sure, I had to wait four hours (I'm not kidding), watch the same stupid video, and take the same stupid test as everyone else does. However, it's a category of badge that doesn't allow security bypass, except in the wee hours of the night/morning. Right: If I wanted to take contraband into the sterile area, there's no way I'd be motivated enough to do it at 0330. :angryfire

 

[Hootie9750]

Would everybody quit freaking out. There is no new rule. Why would anybody land a plane safely and then instead of walking a few gates over to catch a flight home choose to go back out and through the security line and miss their flight? This is a just a pilot stupidity test, the govt. is testing to making sure pilots aren't 100% retarted.

 

[sweptback]

I don't know why everyone is so upset about this. The rule is unenforceable. They have no way of knowing whether you were screened or not. As far as I'm concerned, there is no new rule.

Yes, except if they catch you getting on a flight when you haven't been screened, not only will you be fired but prosecuted to the "fullest extent of the law." I don't know what that is, but I'm sure they'd love to make an example out of somebody, especially one of those pesky pilots.

I plan on complying with the new directive even though it will be a PITA. I'll just go through security and look at the TSA with my deadpan stare, and give them the stinkeye when they try to make conversation.

 

[Marsupial]

This may sound like a stupid question, but don't you always have to go thhrough security when you commute? I always have.

yes but when you finish your trip and want to commute home, this new directive is stating that rather than walking over to the gate of your departing flight, you must first go out and 'clear the screening checkpoint with your accessible property'. so if your flight is leaving in say 30 minutes, and you have to go through the concourse from the furthest gate out, to the train and out to the main terminal, back through security, back on the train and then back down the concourse to that flight...well you aren't gonna make it. also if you commute up, and are starting a trip with a deadhead, this directive is saying u must go through security at that airport (not just the one u started out at) which again will waste about 30 minutes of your life. (maybe not so long for those who commute to a smaller airport, but still...)

 

[Occam's Razor]

You sure?

Under the scenario you just posted, it doesn't look like the pilot ever left the "sterile area"...assuming an aircraft in flight is a "sterile area".

If I go through screening in DTW, then fly to MSP, do the new rules require me to go back through screening? I've been inside the sterile area the whole time.

I think this is gonna be too ambiguous for TSA to keep their arms around.

 

[CVG72]

From the ASA Employee Site:

The TSA has just implemented a new security directive which will be effective immediately. This directive mandates that all airline employees traveling as a passenger, either revenue or non-rev, must enter the airport sterile area through the screening checkpoint. Employees traveling as passengers must undergo screening of their person and accessible property at the screening checkpoint.

Do you mean that as the companion I will now have to wait in line with everyoe else? Or do you just mean that i will get screened like i always do anyway? or do you mean that even worse, i will go thru the "special" security line that searches you inside out? (god love those when i am last minute non rev)

I just signed up for CLEAR. Not sure what that will do, hoping it will make it easier when I am flagged SSSS.

 

[Marsupial]

You sure?

Under the scenario you just posted, it doesn't look like the pilot ever left the "sterile area"...assuming an aircraft in flight is a "sterile area".

If I go through screening in DTW, then fly to MSP, do the new rules require me to go back through screening? I've been inside the sterile area the whole time.

I think this is gonna be too ambiguous for TSA to keep their arms around.

well according to the memo that was sent out to us, under that scenario, yes you have left the sterile area. i am not saying i agree with that at all. just going by what our company says. the example was just like yours. check in at 'dtw' , having gone through security. fly to 'msp' and back to 'dtw'. now commuting home to 'xyz'...proceed thru security, cuz for some reason, u have become unsterilized.


so i was just thinking about all the passengers who are making connecting flights...why don't they have to go through security again at the next airport? and even tho someone said if one of the flight crew went outside the aircraft to pre/post flight they are out of the sterile area (which i thought if you remained within the footprint of the aircraft that is still the sterile area), it's not like the whole flight crew goes out there. this whole thing is totally ludicrous.

 

[mavdog]

You sure?

Under the scenario you just posted, it doesn't look like the pilot ever left the "sterile area"...assuming an aircraft in flight is a "sterile area".

If I go through screening in DTW, then fly to MSP, do the new rules require me to go back through screening? I've been inside the sterile area the whole time.

I think this is gonna be too ambiguous for TSA to keep their arms around.

Well, if you went outside to do the pre/post-flight, technically you are no longer in the the "sterile area", you are in the SIDA. Thanks TSA!

Edit: You beat me to Marsupial!

 

[Poahi]

I don't know why everyone is so upset about this. The rule is unenforceable. They have no way of knowing whether you were screened or not. As far as I'm concerned, there is no new rule.

Here's the problem: Some airlines have taken it upon themselves to require jumpseaters to get a 'boarding card' through the ticket counter. Once you've passed through the security checkpoint, you must have the TSA stamp the card. If the record is made at the counter, it will have the dreaded SSSS and you will be searched every time. The airlines can waive this SSSS, but most of the time they won't. If you show up to the gate without the stamp, back to the counter and back for another handscreening.

It's the death of common sense.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't know why everyone is so upset about this. The rule is unenforceable. They have no way of knowing whether you were screened or not. As far as I'm concerned, there is no new rule.

Yes, except if they catch you getting on a flight when you haven't been screened, not only will you be fired but prosecuted to the "fullest extent of the law." I don't know what that is, but I'm sure they'd love to make an example out of somebody, especially one of those pesky pilots.

I plan on complying with the new directive even though it will be a PITA. I'll just go through security and look at the TSA with my deadpan stare, and give them the stinkeye when they try to make conversation.

Sweptback is right. Every section of the airport is covered by cameras and Big Brother is always watching. Don't think for one minute that pilots aren't going to be watched from the time you enter the concourse to the time you get on that commuter flight home. Sure there's a lot of us, and the odds of being the one they watch is slim, but if you happen to be that one, and they catch you going straight to the gate the TSA WILL throw the book at you. What with the "drunks at checkpoints" incidents, they've already proven that they hate pilots and would love to throw one of us "arrogant pricks" in jail.

Just comply, and waste as much time at the checkpoint as possible. Don't take anything off. Fumble with your cellphone. Make them search you and wand you. The more we jam up the checkpoints, the faster this stupid rule will be changed!

It's time we pilots grow a set, and practice a little CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE at the checkpoint!!!!

 

[yournextFO]

Let's see...how many airline flights have been disrupted/hijacked by pilots? Only one comes to mind, and a TSA screening wouldn't have made a difference in that case. Let's face it, TSA has been out to get flightcrew for years and this is just one power play!

 

[LAMESAUCE]

just as long as you don't have three ounces of mustard on your turkey sandwich, everything should be okay.

 

[PCL_128]

Just comply, and waste as much time at the checkpoint as possible.

The last flight from DTW-ATL leaves at 7:04pm right now. When most of the trips finish around 6pm, I'm not going to go out to security and miss my flight home. If I get fired, then so be it. I'm not spending an extra 4 nights in DTW every month to make the TSA happy. This career just isn't worth it anymore.

 

[Tarzan]

This BS. If I start my trip with a DH, I ride the bus to the concourse go all the way out and then come back thorugh security? WTF? I'll make sure to duty in exactly one hour before, wander out with my junk, find the line with longest wait and then go all the way back out to my gate for my DH... If the plane hasn't left yet.

How can they expect to enforce this rule? How do they know if I went though security at the start of my day when I have to DH home? The ignorance of these people is earth shattering. But I feel good knowing that we profesionalized because we federalized security at airports. I used enjoy watching the TSA thugs come to work at STL. They just take of their gang colors, put them in their pockets and jump on the bus. Really makes you feel good knowing they have our backs and working hard to keep us safe <From ourselves>

 

[John Pennekamp]

The last flight from DTW-ATL leaves at 7:04pm right now. When most of the trips finish around 6pm, I'm not going to go out to security and miss my flight home. If I get fired, then so be it. I'm not spending an extra 4 nights in DTW every month to make the TSA happy. This career just isn't worth it anymore.

Well, it's not just fired, its prosecuted, fined, jailed, hell, maybe even locked up in Gitmo! (yes, I'm joking about Gitmo).

We have no rights anymore and this country becomes more of a police state daily!

 

[j41driver]

It suprises my how many people are posting about it. I hate TSA just like everyone else but I thought most of us go through them 99% of the time. I guess not.

ATL employees get dropped off inside the SIDA right at ops. We are not required to go all the way to the main terminal and go through security.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ATL employees get dropped off inside the SIDA right at ops. We are not required to go all the way to the main terminal and go through security.

For now. Wait until next week!

 

[COOPERVANE]

next week will be:

TSA: Who packed this bag?
Capt: My wife........No wait my flight attendant in BUF, kind of a crazy overnight!!
TSA: Has this bag been in your posession the whole time?
Capt: Yeah, except when I dropped it off in ops and went to grab a turkey sandwich
TSA: Could anyone have put something in your bag without you knowing?
Capt: Probably. I know my flight attendant had to fetch her underwear out of it...We swapped yesterday

The reason they stopped asking these STUPID questions was because someone finally realized that dishonest people don't tell the truth. People smuggling drugs/guns won't GO BACK THROUGH SECURITY EITHER!!

 

[Booker]

This is a just a pilot stupidity test, the govt. is testing to making sure pilots aren't 100% retarted.

The preliminary results are not very promising.

 

[j41driver]

What's the big deal with having to go through security? I went through it essentially everyday at Mesaba, even when in uniform. In the grand scheme of life, is it really that big of a deal?

Here's an example of how this can make our lives more difficult if I'm understanding what they really want us to do...still waiting for clarification on that though. This is actually my schedule for tomorrow, BTW...

1st leg - BOS-BWI -- Go through security in BOS to begin my day.
2nd leg - Deadhead BWI-ATL -- Get off the airplane I just brought in. Exit the BWI sterile area. Go through security with all of my stuff (the same stuff that I had in BOS about 2 1/2 hours ago) Get on airplane to ATL.
3rd leg - Non-rev home ATL-HOME -- Get off airplane I just brought in...which could very well be right next to my commuting flight, BTW. Exit ATL sterile area. go back through security with all of my stuff again. Run back to the gate with the hope that I haven't missed my commute home.

Now I realize that commuting is my choice but take out that 3rd leg out of the equation and do you think it makes any sense at all to have to go back through security to ride as a passenger on the airplane that you just delivered safely to the gate?

 

[Windsor]

This BS. If I start my trip with a DH, I ride the bus to the concourse go all the way out and then come back thorugh security? WTF? I'll make sure to duty in exactly one hour before, wander out with my junk, find the line with longest wait and then go all the way back out to my gate for my DH... If the plane hasn't left yet.

If guys repeatedly miss DH flights due to this new rule and it really starts interfering with scheduling, you can bet it wont take long for the airlines themselves to complain about the rule.

 

[COOPERVANE]

If it's the rule, then you, my friend WILL do it.

If it is found that you went the other way around, they can, and will, shut down the airport.

Try it and then post your experience!

Such a condescending tone for a super experienced 2000 hour airline veteran. Try commuting at a airline job for a while and then post YOUR experience.

Also, I am not your friend and never presume to tell me what I will and will not do.