Mesa a sinking ship?

[bboone152]

I've heard some rumors from some buddies of mine at Mesa that the company is a sinking ship and people are jumping ship left and right. Is this true, and if so what is going on? Im absolutely not trying to start a negative post so if you are going to reply with something off the wall and untrue, post it somewhere else. I just wonder what the facts are and what is going on over there. I totally respect the pilots there and wish them the best.


Thanks

 

[svcta]

3....2......1.....(deep breath)

Addition: FIRST!

 

[#%&@$!]

Mesa has been a shi++y place to work since the contract was signed in 2002. The only good thing about it is the pilot comraderie. For the last year the FOs have been bailing to SkyWest and Republic, and recently their attrition has skyrocketed. And why shouldn't it? The pay may not be too different but the work rules and QOL are a different paradigm, and now Republic is offerring a $2500 sign on bonus. I think they are trying to lure enough pilots from Mesa to cause the loss of a code share and frankly I hope they do. More recently Captains are finally getting out too. Frontier's Lynx operation in Denver has already provided an escape path for half of the Dash 8 captains in Denver and we are on the verge of losing that flying. A good percentage Jet Blue's next class in from Mesa, and there is a steady stream of guys going to other legacy, low cost, and cargo operations. Six months ago Mesa had over 1900 pilots on the seniority list, now its down to 1700. There is a LOT of Junior Assignment happening and rumors of cancelled vacations, which only fuels the low morale. Most everyone I know is trying to get out, except for the senior FOs who forsee an upgrade soon, we'll see. I believe that JO plans to ensure the USX and DLC flying is covered at the expense of the UAX flying, intending to get icked out of UAX, spinning it as it wasn't profitable anyways compared to what he can make in China. His plan is to transfer all the 50 seaters to China, (along with half of the pilot jobs) and leave the 700s and 900s for USeX and DLC, probably with threats of furloughs and downgrades unless concessions are made in upcomming section six negotiations which begin in a few months. Not that I think concessions could win us any new business in the US. Mesa Pilots would rather burn the place down this time.

So in a nutshell, I don't think Mesa is necessarily a sinking ship, I just think its all part of JOs plan to get rid of the 200s that no one wants, and the pesky, expensive pilots that go with them, enhancing his bottom feeder status and his POS operation farther in the direction he's famous for, lowering the bar for the industry, and getting richer himself on the backs of his employees.

By the way, yes I do work there, and am trying to get out

 

[Hovernut]

Adding to the rumormongering...RDU agents were b1tching about Freedom's performance and wondered what could be done about it. This occurred at a DAL roadshow with some management types. What was said was basically, "Ask us that question again in June!"

Hmmmm!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Conditions have changed for airlines trying to hire new pilots. Demand is starting to outstrip supply for new guys. And, with the "better" airlines now hiring, there are more places for the captains and fos to go that are better than the bottom feeders.

Mesa is one of the bottom feeders, so, obviously, they will have more and more problems getting new pilots, relative to the "better" regionals.

All of the airlines towards the bottom are/will be experiencing what Mesa is going through.

It's even effecting Jet Blue and Delta. Jet Blue is not getting enough candidates that are as qualified as they want, and Delta is not getting as many mil guys as they want.

cliff
YIP

 

[regionaltard]

Mesa a sinking ship?

Cockroaches a doomed species?

 

[Duck Feeder]

How do you sink if you are already at the bottom?????

 

[T-prop]

Cockroaches a doomed species?

I believe the coackroach metaphore is reserved for Great Lakes.

 

[CFIse]

Here's what's going on.

The industry is opening up, there are opportunities at "upline" airlines like the legacies and places like JetBlue and the freight carriers. So captains, who have been stuck at Mesa 6+ years are moving on. Nobody really knows how many captains are moving on, people on mesahub are convinced it's in the hundreds, That's not correct and I have the seniority number movement to prove it.

There are a few FOs who are taking the opportunity to move to other regionals as FOs. Some of them are doing it for good reasons, there are now opportunities at those regionals that were not open to them before and that regional is a better fit for them. Some FOs are chasing a "quicker" upgrade because they think upgrades at Mesa have slowed down. If that works for them then good luck, but at best that's a crapshoot. Nobody has a CLUE how many actual FOs are quitting, it's bigger than zero, but I don't think it's much bigger myself.

It's harder for Mesa to fill new hire classes, just as it is at any regional right now, and Mesa, being stunningly cheap, isn't offering the same bonuses to new hires and even if they were the companies reputation precedes them so it's not like Mesa is most people's number one choice.

The next year will be interesting, certainly upgrades will pick up as captains move on - even if its 10-20 captains a month, you have to backfill those eventually. If the company isn't replacing FOs at the same rate, which were arguably in short supply at Mesa anyway, then that's going to make it even harder. On the other hand US Air is drawing down 1 plane every 6 months and the Dash program in JFK has collapsed and I'm not so sure that Mesa can win the jet flying that will replace it. So that's a pool of pilots who will probably replaces Dash pilots out West who will then upgrade into the jet.

I don't think Mesa will collapse, the same doomsayers over on mesahub having been saying Mesa is going to collapse for the past 2 years, and they haven't been right about any of that yet. It will be interesting, but it's going to be interesting at the other regionals as well. Republic/Chatauqua has taken on a lot of flying and Bedford has proven he can run an organisation into the ground with the best of them. I hear that SkyWest is struggling to handle it's growth and keeping up with hiring. Pinnacle, Colgan, Mesaba et. al., who knows whats going on there. Comair, still lives and dies on how mother Delta turns and coughs. So mostly it's the same across the industry.

If Mesa is the right fit for you, which mostly means you'd live in your Mesa domicile as opposed to commuting somewhere else, then there's no good reason not to go there, because if any of us could predict the future of any regional with much certainty we'd be making out money in the stock market and not flying planes. If you wouldn't consider Mesa in the first place, no good reason to consider it now.

 

[n757st]

Here's what's going on.

The industry is opening up, there are opportunities at "upline" airlines like the legacies and places like JetBlue and the freight carriers. So captains, who have been stuck at Mesa 6+ years are moving on. Nobody really knows how many captains are moving on, people on mesahub are convinced it's in the hundreds, That's not correct and I have the seniority number movement to prove it.

There are a few FOs who are taking the opportunity to move to other regionals as FOs. Some of them are doing it for good reasons, there are now opportunities at those regionals that were not open to them before and that regional is a better fit for them. Some FOs are chasing a "quicker" upgrade because they think upgrades at Mesa have slowed down. If that works for them then good luck, but at best that's a crapshoot. Nobody has a CLUE how many actual FOs are quitting, it's bigger than zero, but I don't think it's much bigger myself.

It's harder for Mesa to fill new hire classes, just as it is at any regional right now, and Mesa, being stunningly cheap, isn't offering the same bonuses to new hires and even if they were the companies reputation precedes them so it's not like Mesa is most people's number one choice.

The next year will be interesting, certainly upgrades will pick up as captains move on - even if its 10-20 captains a month, you have to backfill those eventually. If the company isn't replacing FOs at the same rate, which were arguably in short supply at Mesa anyway, then that's going to make it even harder. On the other hand US Air is drawing down 1 plane every 6 months and the Dash program in JFK has collapsed and I'm not so sure that Mesa can win the jet flying that will replace it. So that's a pool of pilots who will probably replaces Dash pilots out West who will then upgrade into the jet.

I don't think Mesa will collapse, the same doomsayers over on mesahub having been saying Mesa is going to collapse for the past 2 years, and they haven't been right about any of that yet. It will be interesting, but it's going to be interesting at the other regionals as well. Republic/Chatauqua has taken on a lot of flying and Bedford has proven he can run an organisation into the ground with the best of them. I hear that SkyWest is struggling to handle it's growth and keeping up with hiring. Pinnacle, Colgan, Mesaba et. al., who knows whats going on there. Comair, still lives and dies on how mother Delta turns and coughs. So mostly it's the same across the industry.

If Mesa is the right fit for you, which mostly means you'd live in your Mesa domicile as opposed to commuting somewhere else, then there's no good reason not to go there, because if any of us could predict the future of any regional with much certainty we'd be making out money in the stock market and not flying planes. If you wouldn't consider Mesa in the first place, no good reason to consider it now.

What do you mean USAir is bringing down an airplane every 6 months? Are you loosing the -200 or 900 and east or west? Just curious.

 

[CFIse]

What do you mean USAir is bringing down an airplane every 6 months? Are you loosing the -200 or 900 and east or west? Just curious.

Under the contract US Air can drop a 200 every 6 months. If I recall correctly they could dump 2 every 6 months in 2006, which they did (they did whatever they were contractually allowed to do, I forget the details). As far as I know all the 200s on the US Air contract fly out of PHX.

Logically you would expect that with AWAC on board and the 190's at mainline etc. etc. The US Air contract runs 2010-2012, after that we'll see what happens.

 

[Checknsix]

Well, let me paint you guys a different picture about Mesa, than the one painted by the junior FO above.

Attrition has been running about 50-60 pilots per month for the last couple of months. We have lost about 27 so far this month...and it is only the 10th of March. There were 6 Mesa FO's in the last Republic class. My last three FO's are gone...the one I was supposed to fly with this month, was gone before I had a chance to fly with him. The company is predicting attrition of around 650-750 pilots this year, and is having a very, very difficult time finding new meat. They are currently sending the certificate chief pilot and at least one regional chief pilot out on the road, to places like All ATP's, FBO's, etc. to find bodies. Very few are biting. 5 pilots from one tour of DFW.

That they are sending out folks to recruit, that should be managing critical day to day operations...is your best indication that they cannot spare any pilots right now. Mesa has been paying double time for JA's and volunteer flying, for almost a year now. That is not our contract rate. They are already asking for volunteer vacation cancellations. I know of one pilot that has been JA'd on his last day of his last 8 trips. Mesa won't even release the MEC officers and contract negotiating team, because as they have said, "it would adversely affect line operations."

The next JetBlue class has quite a few Mesa captains in it. At least 5 of my captain buddies have resigned in the past two weeks. Several going into what I would consider lateral, or just above lateral moves...most just trying to punch out before the QOL absolutely goes through floor. Many are punching out, before they say they tell Crew Tracking to "stick it where the sun don't shine"...and find themselves being fired.

This month should prove to be a bloodbath in attrition. Skywest and Republic are actively pursuing Mesa pilots. Mesa has put up a measly $500 signing bonus to try to get our employees to bring them a victim. Something akin to pissing on a volcano to try to put the flames out. Republic is offering a bonus 5 times that...to the actual applicant.

Mesa is in the beginnings of a pilot attrition death spiral, that will most likely see them losing a codeshare inside of 90 days. As JA's and vacations cancellations come, attrition will accelerate. They are already robbing Peter to pay Paul, to cover flying. I'm guessing they are heading for contractual issues with partners in the coming few weeks, if not already. Discussions have already been had at high levels.

The sad thing is, this Management by Crisis Team that we have here, can't think 30 days ahead, much less one year ahead, when it comes to fixing the problem. The only pilots left to hire out there, have to be attracted from other airlines. Not only will they have to match the contracts of the folks that are getting pilots now, they will have to beat those contracts...and they will have to pay an additional penalty for the the stigma they have brought on themselves , in relation to the poor contract adherence and they overall lack of concern for their employees and their families.

One to two years....Mesa is history unless they put new management in place.

 

[XPOO]

Just wait until JA announces next month that he is doing the very thing JO has had a wet dream about doing since Day 1. The BIG announcement is almost upon us!

 

[fried chickens]

Well, let me paint you guys a different picture about Mesa, than the one painted by the junior FO above.



That they are sending out folks to recruit, that should be managing critical day to day operations...is your best indication that they cannot spare any pilots right now. Mesa has been paying double time for JA's and volunteer flying, for almost a year now. That is not our contract rate. They are already asking for volunteer vacation cancellations. I know of one pilot that has been JA'd on his last day of his last 8 trips. Mesa won't even release the MEC officers and contract negotiating team, because as they have said, "it would adversely affect line operations."



One to two years....Mesa is history unless they put new management in place.

I thought it was because of the vote of no confidence

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, let me paint you guys a different picture about Mesa, than the one painted by the junior FO above.

Attrition has been running about 50-60 pilots per month for the last couple of months. We have lost about 27 so far this month...and it is only the 10th of March. There were 6 Mesa FO's in the last Republic class. My last three FO's are gone...the one I was supposed to fly with this month, was gone before I had a chance to fly with him. The company is predicting attrition of around 650-750 pilots this year, and is having a very, very difficult time finding new meat. They are currently sending the certificate chief pilot and at least one regional chief pilot out on the road, to places like All ATP's, FBO's, etc. to find bodies. Very few are biting. 5 pilots from one tour of DFW.

That they are sending out folks to recruit, that should be managing critical day to day operations...is your best indication that they cannot spare any pilots right now. Mesa has been paying double time for JA's and volunteer flying, for almost a year now. That is not our contract rate. They are already asking for volunteer vacation cancellations. I know of one pilot that has been JA'd on his last day of his last 8 trips. Mesa won't even release the MEC officers and contract negotiating team, because as they have said, "it would adversely affect line operations."

The next JetBlue class has quite a few Mesa captains in it. At least 5 of my captain buddies have resigned in the past two weeks. Several going into what I would consider lateral, or just above lateral moves...most just trying to punch out before the QOL absolutely goes through floor. Many are punching out, before they say they tell Crew Tracking to "stick it where the sun don't shine"...and find themselves being fired.

This month should prove to be a bloodbath in attrition. Skywest and Republic are actively pursuing Mesa pilots. Mesa has put up a measly $500 signing bonus to try to get our employees to bring them a victim. Something akin to pissing on a volcano to try to put the flames out. Republic is offering a bonus 5 times that...to the actual applicant.

Mesa is in the beginnings of a pilot attrition death spiral, that will most likely see them losing a codeshare inside of 90 days. As JA's and vacations cancellations come, attrition will accelerate. They are already robbing Peter to pay Paul, to cover flying. I'm guessing they are heading for contractual issues with partners in the coming few weeks, if not already. Discussions have already been had at high levels.

The sad thing is, this Management by Crisis Team that we have here, can't think 30 days ahead, much less one year ahead, when it comes to fixing the problem. The only pilots left to hire out there, have to be attracted from other airlines. Not only will they have to match the contracts of the folks that are getting pilots now, they will have to beat those contracts...and they will have to pay an additional penalty for the the stigma they have brought on themselves , in relation to the poor contract adherence and they overall lack of concern for their employees and their families.

One to two years....Mesa is history unless they put new management in place.

This is a good thing. The good old law of supply and demand may actually accomplish something that ALPA failed to achieve. Just think what we could do if ALPA had pushed for higher 121 pilot minimums and if we had the ability to transport our seniority - places like MESA would be shut down now...........

 

[Checknsix]

I thought it was because of the vote of no confidence

The company is using more than one reason. Mostly, the reason is the kindergarten mentality that prevails here.

 

[Checknsix]

By the way, numbers don't lie. I have tracked one pilot that made it onto the seniority list on 12/17/06 as number 1812. As of today...and the list has quite a few guys that have resigned on it, this pilot is seniority number 1647.

This pilot has moved up 165 number in 83 days....or about 2 numbers a day.

Too bad he won't make captain before the doors close.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Mesa is hiring people over the telephone to be in class on Monday of the following week AND you get your choice of domicile and aircraft.

 

[joesmiley]

Mesa Airgroup hires for Air Midwest (B1900's,) Freedom (ERJ) and Mesa (CRJ & Dash.)

The folks at Air Midwest were sent an email stating that until Mesa can fill its personel needs there will be no new hire classes at Air Midwest.

Read into it what you may. But a truth in all of this is the difficulty that Mesa is having filling seats.

 

[homerjdispatch]

for all those waiting....

MESA SUCKS!!!

Not the crews, just the AIRLINE in general.