Pinnacle to fly CRJ900s for Delta

[ChickenSled]

SR has forgotten more about scheduling issues than 95% of our pilots know. Terrible with representations---he has a real problem defending someone whos guilty. That's ok---we have C3.

I'm a little confused? Why is it that SR would want to represent someone who is guilty?

 

[dondk]

that is the job of all ALPA rep's, C3, LEC and MEC.

all kidding aside, regardless of guilt or innocence it is the task of a ALPA representative to provide the best possible representation for a ALPA pilot in a management meeting. More so when one has possible disciplinary actions against the pilot. Even if they are guilty with the hand in the cookie jar, you ask for the photo's to prove it. Or the tapes from scheduling that tend to vanish more often than not.

 

[PCL_128]

AMEN, The thing that pissed me off the most was how the MEC Sec/Treasurer was ousted and substituted with the former communications chair that didn't communicate diddle squat and C.S. didn't even get a thank you note for years of service to the MEC. We should have gotten rid of W.G. along with Woerthless.

I'm not going to comment on most of the internal political discussions going on here. If you have concerns about how the elections went down, or anything else, you know that you can call me or any of the other reps and we'll be happy to talk about it. I won't get into most of it on a public message board though.

With that said, I can't let the above post go without commenting. The Communications Chair that won the election for MEC ST is one of the hardest working volunteers that I've ever had the privilege of knowing. He's devoted virtually every free moment of his life to ALPA work, and he gets very little recognition for it. To say that he didn't do "diddle squat" as Comm Chair is absurd to say the least. I have full confidence in him to do the job of MEC ST.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The most informed pilot group then hum? Politics, politics.

 

[Lear70]

I'm a little confused? Why is it that SR would want to represent someone who is guilty?

How do you know the person is guilty? How do you treat someone who has done something against the contract? Do you throw them to the wolves? Regardless that they've paid dues just like anyone else?

ALPA contracts provide EVERY dues paying member, regardless of guilt, obvious or simply accused, the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to defense (representation).

THAT is the problem with Rhymes, HE is judge, jury, and executioner as far as he's concerned. If he had HIS way, NO ONE who HE thought was guilty would get representation. Even if, later, it were proven they were innocent and HE jumped to conclusions (as he regularly does).

THAT'S what made him such a terrible rep. I recommended SEVERAL times to guys just to wait for Scott or someone else from the northern C3 bases to come do their initial discipline meeting. I had CA's ask ME to come sit with them in discipline rather than have SR there, and I wasn't C3.

SR has absolutely ZERO business representing pilots if he can't give 100% support, even if he PERSONALLY believes the pilot deserves the discipline he's going in for.

As for Wake, you guys need to stop drinking the kool-aid. Wake is in it for himself. Or have you forgotten what he was BEFORE he decided to be a pilot?

CS would have been a MUCH better person in that chair for the final phase of negotiations. I'm a bit surprised GB endorsed Wake over Craig, but I haven't had a chance to call and congratulate him on moving on, much less ask WTF happened in MEM.

 

[Lear70]

The most informed pilot group then hum? Politics, politics.

Who claimed PCL was the "most informed" pilot group?

I'd say that's not exactly truthful... WG has absolutely ZERO interest in communications, other than to keep the tribe from an uprising, and that comes straight from a conversation I had with him about it several years ago.

If it weren't for the multi-LEC structure, the pilots would be 'shrooms.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Who claimed PCL was the "most informed" pilot group?

I'd say that's not exactly truthful... WG has absolutely ZERO interest in communications, other than to keep the tribe from an uprising, and that comes straight from a conversation I had with him about it several years ago.

If it weren't for the multi-LEC structure, the pilots would be 'shrooms.

Easy there cowboy. If you read my original post you will see that I said that we should have gotten rid of his ass along with woerthless. You want to know what happen in MEN? Politics, that's what.

 

[WildBlue]

That's right, Lear. He was a business man....nothing but a shark. Willing to do anything for himself. Heartless and amoral. Anti-union and all the rest. Just the kind of guy we need dealing with Trenary, Shockey and the rest of the gang. According to your view of the world, the only guys capable of doing that kind of work are those who have been pilots all their lives with no experience outside of aviation. You are dead wrong.

When you are swimming with the sharks, you better have someone who knows how to do the strokes. WG used to run a trucking company and from my conversations with him he doesn't drink the ALPA kool-aid. The only thing he wants is to do right by the pilots he represents. He really helped me out of a serious jam when I first got here, and I don't forget those who help me. He went to bat and saved my job. I was wrong and should have paid the price.

DONDK, sorry, but not in C3. When I have a question I go right to the source. You guys that think WG doesn't know what he's doing ought to just pick up the phone and call him. You might be surprised what you can learn.

Lear, you were angry when you were here, and couldn't get elected to dog-catcher. You couldn't even beat JV. Go peddle your sh** over at AirTran. You already have such a good reputation at your new home.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, you were angry when you were here, and couldn't get elected to dog-catcher. You couldn't even beat JV. Go peddle your sh** over at AirTran. You already have such a good reputation at your new home.

Easy to sling mud, have any evidence to back that sh*t up about AirTran?

Or are you just another one of those "message board tough guys" that likes to hide behind the cover of anonymity?

That's what I thought.

According to your view of the world, the only guys capable of doing that kind of work are those who have been pilots all their lives with no experience outside of aviation. You are dead wrong.

And where the hell did I say THAT?

So let's see here, I spent COUNTLESS hours volunteering on ALPA committees, and you aren't on any?

Pretty lame. Why don't you run for election so you can support your boy? Go ahead, be another Wake-bot. Oh wait, he doesn't need you; there's already enough of them to support his agenda.

Incidentally, in your unabashed support for Wake, have you conveniently forgot the piece of absolute DOGSH*T LOA's that have been voted in while he's been in control?

You might dig a little deeper in Wake's past. Yeah, he ran a trucking company. He also BUSTED 2 attempts of his own workers to unionize.

That's right. Your glorious leader is a proven union-buster. Good job. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Lear70]

Easy there cowboy. If you read my original post you will see that I said that we should have gotten rid of his ass along with woerthless. You want to know what happen in MEN? Politics, that's what.

Oh, that's not what I meant. Just was wondering who ever claimed that PCL pilots were the most informed pilot group...

Actually, that kind of sounds like something Wake would say.


Sorry for the confusion.

 

[ChickenSled]

How do you know the person is guilty? How do you treat someone who has done something against the contract? Do you throw them to the wolves? Regardless that they've paid dues just like anyone else?
.

I don't know R--h, it's what is called common sense. If a guy calls in sick 11 times in a year and has 11 doctors notes, he either knows a doctor real well or he is innocent. He is probably someone you know that had a car wreck, and has had to be at the doctor a lot, so he should be represented against an illegal occurance policy. If they next guy calls in 11 times in a year (on Thanksgiving, Xmas, Superbowl, etc.) and has 2 doctors notes, he is probably guilty and should be "fired" without representation, for screwing it up for all the other dues paying members who come to work unless they are really too sick to work. Or even better, the commuters who call in sick after trying only 1 JS and being denied, even though the CBA requires them to try 2? Honestly, this is something the union should be self policing and then the company would never have had to institute an insane sick occurance policy.

Or how about the FO that sat next to me the other day, sick to his stomach that he found out that 2nd yr Colgan FO's are about to make $26 an hour flying turbo props when he is only making $24 flying a jet and he is on the verge of bankruptcy. Where is the LOA fixing this, or is the union too busy running around represeting the guy who goes to the gym every day but somehow still manages to get sick 9 times a year.

What I'm really sick of around here is listening to FO's horror stories about some of our captains. I've heard stories about FO's getting their hands slapped, what is up with that? Why is it our union continues to represent incredibly weak captains when they should be fired not only for being incompetent, but also commited for being psychopaths. This airline thrives on having probationary FO's around for 3-9 months before they get sick of it and quit, and they are just prey for the half dozen crazy captains we seem to have in all three bases. Ever wonder why they aren't staying? The unlucky lineholders will drop and swap all their trips with these guys and that leaves the new reserves sitting in a 6x6 foot can for 4 days with a guy who hates himself, you, the company, and everyone else. Why isn't the union self policing this as well? The company sure doesn't care, pilots are like brake pads to Pinnacle, when they wear out and can't take it anymore they just replace them.

SO, the point of what I'm saying is, not everyone deserves representation, and some are obviously guilty and not worthy to be your co-worker. Why is it that my ALPA dues keep them in a job they don't deserve in the first place?

 

[WildBlue]

The fact is, Rich, that you couldn't get elected when you ran for an LEC S/T job. When folks looked at you and JV, they picked the lesser of two really big evils. Your opinion did not go far over here because the vast majority disagreed with you.

You claim to know facts. Instead you peddle malicious crewroom gossip with no factual basis. Your claim that the Pinnacle MEC Chair is a union-buster who defeated two unionization attempts at his former company is pure BS. It is not true. In fact, your statement could best be described as a pure lie.

What was the name of his company? Do you even know? I don't.

And which LOAs were so horrible? The extension LOA that gave us the right to refuse one of these assignments and limited how many times they can do this? How about the comp day LOA? Fixed a problem form the previous deal. Sick leave LOA improved the accrual of our new hires and got rid of the supplemental bank. That one was just terrible for us, right. FOQA and ASAP were both horrible according to your count. These are just the last five. By the way, all of these terrible LOAs were approved by a unanimous vote of our MEC...even those that you don't consider lapdogs.

Your tired opinions of what goes on at Pinnacle are old news. Jeez, give it a rest. You don't work here anymore. Go improve everyone's life at AirTran and let us work on our own nest.

 

[Lear70]

I don't know R--h, it's what is called common sense.

You can call me Rich, Murf, or even D*ck, I don't mind.

If a guy calls in sick 11 times in a year and has 11 doctors notes, he either knows a doctor real well or he is innocent. He is probably someone you know that had a car wreck, and has had to be at the doctor a lot, so he should be represented against an illegal occurance policy. If they next guy calls in 11 times in a year (on Thanksgiving, Xmas, Superbowl, etc.) and has 2 doctors notes, he is probably guilty and should be "fired" without representation, for screwing it up for all the other dues paying members who come to work unless they are really too sick to work.

I understand your frustration, but who gets to decide who is guilty and who is not?

Who gets to decide who is telling the truth, and who is not?

It's an imperfect system designed for an imperfect world. Otherwise, you end up with someone playing "judge, jury, and executioner" inside the union.

That's what the grievance process is designed for. Let an arbitrary 3rd party decide whether someone needs punishment or not.

Or even better, the commuters who call in sick after trying only 1 JS and being denied, even though the CBA requires them to try 2? Honestly, this is something the union should be self policing and then the company would never have had to institute an insane sick occurance policy.

Very true. It would be great if every INDIVIDUAL pilot were self-policing. It's the handful of a*sholes who call in sick every month and ruin it for everyone else.

Or how about the FO that sat next to me the other day, sick to his stomach that he found out that 2nd yr Colgan FO's are about to make $26 an hour flying turbo props when he is only making $24 flying a jet and he is on the verge of bankruptcy. Where is the LOA fixing this, or is the union too busy running around represeting the guy who goes to the gym every day but somehow still manages to get sick 9 times a year.

No doubt. I'm sure it angers the F/O's to no end, and again, it's definitely an imperfect system.

But how do you decide which grievances are more meritous than others? Who gets to make that call that says "Pilot Smith goes ahead of Pilot Doe because Pilot Doe didn't really give 2 attempts to commute"?

Who gets the "golden hammer" that trumps everyone else? The C3 Chair? That's a lot of power for one person, and opens the union up to a huge discriminatory practice lawsuit.

What I'm really sick of around here is listening to FO's horror stories about some of our captains. I've heard stories about FO's getting their hands slapped, what is up with that?

Are you serious? Physically slapped?

I'd smack the ratsh*t out of someone who did that to me in the cockpit. That's simply unacceptable.

Why is it our union continues to represent incredibly weak captains when they should be fired not only for being incompetent, but also commited for being psychopaths. This airline thrives on having probationary FO's around for 3-9 months before they get sick of it and quit, and they are just prey for the half dozen crazy captains we seem to have in all three bases. Ever wonder why they aren't staying? The unlucky lineholders will drop and swap all their trips with these guys and that leaves the new reserves sitting in a 6x6 foot can for 4 days with a guy who hates himself, you, the company, and everyone else. Why isn't the union self policing this as well? The company sure doesn't care, pilots are like brake pads to Pinnacle, when they wear out and can't take it anymore they just replace them.

All true.

Except the psychopath Captains - I only know of one or two of those I can think of right off hand throughout the entire system.

SO, the point of what I'm saying is, not everyone deserves representation, and some are obviously guilty and not worthy to be your co-worker. Why is it that my ALPA dues keep them in a job they don't deserve in the first place?

Because the system is designed to prevent someone from having too much power and picking and choosing.

Just imagine how much SR loves ME... Now imagine I called in sick for the 3rd time in 90 days for legitimate reasons, BUT imagine IF Steve had the OPTION of saying, "You know what, I hate Rich, he's an a*shole, and I don't want to represent him, do whatever you want to him".

So I get wrongfully terminated and I have no recourse for representation because one person who hates me decides to screw me?

That system could be manipulated too easy. That's why the current system of equal representation is in place.

Yeah, it sucks to have to defend the guys who deliberately screwed the company repeatedly and finally got caught, but that's the price you pay to ensure fairness to everyone.

 

[Rook]

double post.

 

[PCL_128]

I understand your frustration, but who gets to decide who is guilty and who is not?

Who gets to decide who is telling the truth, and who is not?

It's an imperfect system designed for an imperfect world. Otherwise, you end up with someone playing "judge, jury, and executioner" inside the union.

That's what the grievance process is designed for. Let an arbitrary 3rd party decide whether someone needs punishment or not.

I was going to post something along these lines, but this post sums it up perfectly. You can't put this kind of power into one man's hands. The system isn't perfect, but it's the best system that's been thought of so far.

 

[ranger857]

tdy how do you think cvg still runs with 9e

 

[Rook]

The fact is, Rich, that you couldn't get elected when you ran for an LEC S/T job. When folks looked at you and JV, they picked the lesser of two really big evils. Your opinion did not go far over here because the vast majority disagreed with you.

You claim to know facts. Instead you peddle malicious crewroom gossip with no factual basis. Your claim that the Pinnacle MEC Chair is a union-buster who defeated two unionization attempts at his former company is pure BS. It is not true. In fact, your statement could best be described as a pure lie.

What was the name of his company? Do you even know? I don't.

And which LOAs were so horrible? The extension LOA that gave us the right to refuse one of these assignments and limited how many times they can do this? How about the comp day LOA? Fixed a problem form the previous deal. Sick leave LOA improved the accrual of our new hires and got rid of the supplemental bank. That one was just terrible for us, right. FOQA and ASAP were both horrible according to your count. These are just the last five. By the way, all of these terrible LOAs were approved by a unanimous vote of our MEC...even those that you don't consider lapdogs.

Your tired opinions of what goes on at Pinnacle are old news. Jeez, give it a rest. You don't work here anymore. Go improve everyone's life at AirTran and let us work on our own nest.

The lesser of two evils? They we're both EEEVILLL. Like fruits of the DEEEVILL. But both have gone on to much greener pastures. I gotta give L70 credit. Before C3 (mad props to dondk)he was someone I went to with my contract issues. Dude spent all his time on reserve so he got to know the contract frontwards, backwards, and sideways. Bottom line, they both came in off the street and tried to leave 9E a better place than when they got there. Good luck to you(9E) guys. I just want you to know, We're all counting on you.:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

The fact is, Rich, that you couldn't get elected when you ran for an LEC S/T job. When folks looked at you and JV, they picked the lesser of two really big evils. Your opinion did not go far over here because the vast majority disagreed with you.

The lesser of two really big evils?

Are you fu*king kidding me?

JV is one of the coolest cats I know and a major standup guy. I didn't mind losing that election to him because he was even MORE of a pit bull than I was about the way the company screwed people.

Just putting him in that category makes you an a*s. If I had doubts about it before, I don't now.

You claim to know facts. Instead you peddle malicious crewroom gossip with no factual basis. Your claim that the Pinnacle MEC Chair is a union-buster who defeated two unionization attempts at his former company is pure BS. It is not true. In fact, your statement could best be described as a pure lie.

What was the name of his company? Do you even know? I don't.

Nope. But I trust my source. Go ahead, ask Wake if he ever had his truckers attempt to unionize. Ask if they were successful. I double-dog dare you.

And which LOAs were so horrible? The extension LOA that gave us the right to refuse one of these assignments and limited how many times they can do this?

Yup. Shouldn't have given ANY ground on this. The language was clear. The right to refuse was built into the contract. The MEC gave it up and didn't get anything back for it.

I refused whenever I wanted to for personal reasons and fu*k the MEC. My time is MY TIME. Not the company's. They don't own me, and neither did the union.

How about the comp day LOA? Fixed a problem form the previous deal.

Yup, that one sucked, too. Should have let it go to Arbitration. I lost 9 days I never got paid for OR comp days because the outstanding grievances were dropped.

Without any HARD limits that the company HAD to grant comp days, even with low staffing, plus requirements for them to make whole ALL the outstanding grievants made it a crappy LOA.

Again, fixing the symptoms, and not the disease, which was deliberate low-staffing of the airline.

Sick leave LOA improved the accrual of our new hires and got rid of the supplemental bank. That one was just terrible for us, right. FOQA and ASAP were both horrible according to your count. These are just the last five.

Never claimed ALL of them were bad, just 2 or 3 that were simply given away and should have gone to arbitration.

By the way, all of these terrible LOAs were approved by a unanimous vote of our MEC...even those that you don't consider lapdogs.

Yup, had dinner with 2 LEC members after one of the votes and bit his d*mn head off over it. He simply said he didn't have faith in the Association's ability to do any better and thought it was the best we could do.

Sad, simply sad.

Your tired opinions of what goes on at Pinnacle are old news. Jeez, give it a rest. You don't work here anymore. Go improve everyone's life at AirTran and let us work on our own nest.

Evidently not. There's enough CURRENT EMPLOYEES who are just as angry as I WAS on this board.

You and your pro-MEC crowd are in the definite minority. One of these days you'll figure that out.

Or maybe you won't. My guess is you're one of the PCL lifers who won't be moving on... It's all great there, right? No troubles at all.

 

[Rook]

You can call me Rich, Murf, or even D*ck, I don't mind.

Di*k:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

The lesser of two evils? They we're both EEEVILLL. Like fruits of the DEEEVILL. But both have gone on to much greener pastures. I gotta give L70 credit. Before C3 (mad props to dondk)he was someone I went to with my contract issues. Dude spent all his time on reserve so he got to know the contract frontwards, backwards, and sideways. Bottom line, they both came in off the street and tried to leave 9E a better place than when they got there. Good luck to you(9E) guys. I just want you to know, We're all counting on you.:laugh:

Whaazzzzup?!

Does that mean you've finally escaped, too?

Dayum, there's hardly any of us left over there. That's GREAT to hear, too!

Hope you enjoy your new digs! You need to come to Nashville sometime, maybe Brother Hunter as well, make a mad-crazy weekend of it!

Di*k :laugh:

HEY!

That's Captain Di*k to you... ummm... wait a second. No, it's not anymore.