121 Outsourced Dispather

[A330Driver]

Ok, you are not going to believe this. My 121 company is seriously considering outsourcing all dispatching....Can they do this?

I have looked all over, but cannot find a regulatory reference that prohibits them from doing this.

Could anyone please provide any insight (preferably regulatory e.g. FAR, Legal interpratations, etc) so that I can through this on my DO's desk and laugh.


Fraternally

 

[homerjdispatch]

what company?

 

[A330Driver]

prefer not to say

 

[RVSM]

Only if the Feds sign off on it.
Your OPSPECs defines who what where and how.
Keep us posted. I really want to know how this turns out.
I also really want to know what carrier but I can wait

 

[SKC]

Our airline thought briefly about that in the late 90s, but decided against it due to financial reasons (amazingly).

 

[homerjdispatch]

Spirit?

 

[homerjdispatch]

oops posted twice

 

[405]

Ok, you are not going to believe this. My 121 company is seriously considering outsourcing all dispatching.

Yeah, I do believe it. I say let 'em do it. All of these airline senior management "teams" would rather save a few bucks than run a safe airline. I hope it bites them in the ass.

 

[clr4theapch]

Private dispatch firms

Only if the Feds sign off on it.
Your OPSPECs defines who what where and how.
Keep us posted. I really want to know how this turns out.
I also really want to know what carrier but I can wait

This is only part of the problem...but it is not impossible to overcome if an airline wants to through enough money at it, which is the problem..

I know about 5 years ago, 4 out of work dispatchers put together there own SOC complete with NavTec, Flt. Explorer, WSI and Jeppesen for rnwy analysis..set up a server to send release and maintain records...they had some pretty big backing, and were going after High end Corporate customer with hopes to one day performing contract 121 work...

The story goes, they made their pitch to the FAA to perform 135 and 121 flight planning, and flight following, according to them the FAA was impressed with the capabilities of the operation and the premis looked promising, however the real problem came when the "whos responsible" questions started being asked, and how it would be enforced in the event of an incident or accident.... A contract between the two was not considered enough of an guarantee for the FAA's liking, and complicated things.

So the FAA came back as being unprepared to address out sourced dispatch at that time, stating that many regulations would have to be added or amended to address operational control between an 121 operation and it's employee pilot in command, not to mention records maintenance and FAA compliance with training requirements of dispatchers and how they would be listed in an OPS SPEC as a non-employee of the certifcated operation.

In the end, for the FAA to approve a private firm to dispatch for an 121 operation many legal connections must be addressed in the FAR's then each airline would have to fork over the cost of amending their ops Spec outlining how this contract work would satisfy the new REGS and maintain the same level of safety and record keeping.. Very expensive and lengthy process.

I have no heard anything on this subject since those days...but certainly alot has changed since those days and management is always looking for better and cheaper ways to do business, possibly they have been working with the FAA on such details for awhile, who knows but them.... it will be interesting to see where this one goes for sure.

 

[Ohh Porterhouse]

prefer not to say

Come on you can tell us.

 

[wms]

Ok, you are not going to believe this. My 121 company is seriously considering outsourcing all dispatching....Can they do this?

I have looked all over, but cannot find a regulatory reference that prohibits them from doing this.

Could anyone please provide any insight (preferably regulatory e.g. FAR, Legal interpratations, etc) so that I can through this on my DO's desk and laugh.


Fraternally

Not so unbelievable. Listen to this!

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.info/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,4/Itemid,61.html

 

[hoover]

By regulation, the certficate holder is responsible for operational control, which we all know means the exercise of authority over initiating, conducting, or terminating a flight. But the actual flight planning is a joint process between the Captain and an authorized dispatcher, and to the best of my knowledge there is nothing that says that the authorized dispatcher has to be an employee of the certificate holder. All the air carrier has to do is satisfy the FAA that operational control is being maintained.

 

[propsarebest]

By regulation, the certficate holder is responsible for operational control, which we all know means the exercise of authority over initiating, conducting, or terminating a flight. But the actual flight planning is a joint process between the Captain and an authorized dispatcher, and to the best of my knowledge there is nothing that says that the authorized dispatcher has to be an employee of the certificate holder. All the air carrier has to do is satisfy the FAA that operational control is being maintained.

Our ops specs say that all of that is done at a specific address, so, unless they "import" a bunch of people from Calcutta, it ain't gonna happen here.

 

[wms]

Our ops specs say that all of that is done at a specific address, so, unless they "import" a bunch of people from Calcutta, it ain't gonna happen here.

Ops specs can be changed in a simple revision. If it's not in a contract, it can't be stopped.

 

[shooter]

Is anyone going to say what airline this is or what company would be doing the releases? Or will this stay an ops specs lesson?

 

[Ohh Porterhouse]

Doubt it

 

[shooter]

got it....USA3000

 

[rvsm410]

Here is the NEW Jeppesen propsal to the FAA

Ok I was asked by clr4theapch to comment....I was staying away from this one since I was on of the original 4 in 2001 that started looking into this possibility as we were all on furlough at the time....

As clr4 said, we had converted a house into to a OCC, with wall screen, flight explorer, Jep rnwy, a 121 aprvd flight planning system, 4 desks and a full reference library etc.... for all intents and purposes, we could have and had the ability to plan and release aircraft, in fact we did so with corporate jets flying under part 91 for trials.... the regs were the biggie..

We ran into a hugh brick wall with a nice big red bow around it...it was going to take alot more horse power than all of us could pull together even with the backing we had....but the idea and plans moved on and have been under wraps with Jeppesen for a while..only till this month it has been flying around under the radar...

Here is the link to their proposal with the FAA and is being worked very hard with the money of Boeing behind them!...this will probably happen in the next 2 to 3 years for sure.... LINK: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MF4NRh...act Dispatching Proposal.ppt#318,1,Discussion of FAA Policy Regarding Contract Dispatch Services


PS its a power point presentation..its safe to open...

 

[rvsm410]

Contract dispatching link

See if this works.... it will take you to a small file download to open the Jep Presentation..

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MF4NRh...act Dispatching Proposal.ppt#318,1,Discussion

 

[homerjdispatch]

linky no worky!