For AMR, a Pilot-Salary Fight Looms

[EA6BDriver]

I figured that would draw you guys out of the woodwork! I almost edited the post to make it a little less antagonistic. But nooooooo...

Ok, ok, how about "those Natives hired AFTER '90"? ALRIGHT! How about "I judge each individual on their own merits"? That should keep me out of the Rule 32 Court.TC

P.S.--Hagar: Sorry, I didn't know about the 727. The statement about the two engine aircraft is true. Those in the AA training empire (yes, they have one as has every large airline--the dog has several tails wagging it) fought the single-engine taxi for the S80's and 757/767's for several years.

As you probably know, the proceedure for the 767 fleet has been altered because people were taxiing on one engine at too heavy a weight and getting FOD in the operating engine. I think they put a weight limit on the single-engine taxi proceedure.

Responding to your 3,333rd post, BTW. That's a lot of bandwidth!

FWIW, I took no issue with your comment on the "Natives." Thanks for wishing me a speedy return to the property. However, the impending fight (or should I say "never-ending"?) with management and the fact that every thread with AMR and/or AA turns into a bitch-fest about the TWA situation makes me wonder if AA's a work envorinment I ever want to return to. Life's too short to spend every waking moment hard-wired to the "Pissed Off" position, and working with those types doesn't sound like a whole lotta fun to me right now. I know enough to never say "Never" but I think you'll see, by the numbers of folks that accept the recalls, that I'm not alone in that line of thinking.

To those that are there, or that plan to return, best of luck to you.

 

[AA717driver]

EA6B--I would think that it's what you make of it. You want to pay attention to all the squabbling, go for it. If you want to stay out of it and ignore it, you can do that, too.

I was very involved in all the politics and goings on at TWA for 12 years and then the integration and pre-furlough stuff and all it did was age me. I accomplished nothing.

That's why I take very few things seriously anymore. Life's too short. Take care. TC

 

[pipe]

your right, I don't... I just know I was hired by "American" and was placed on furlough before (junior) to all of the TWA pilots that are now bitching about their situation. Do you really think the 2500 on the street was a part of the plan, or do you think 9/11 and the economic downturn had anything to do with that? Or maybe it was a conspiracy by the APA to screw the TWA guys?

I'm outta here...

No Genius. The conspiracy to screw the TWA guys was when 84% of us were stapled.

100 F-100's were headed to the scrap heap along with TWA DC-9's and the 717 was going too. Do the math. 130 or so airplanes were outta there and at normal crew ratios, about 1000 or more (all TWA, even though we weren't the morons that bought Fokkers) were headed to the streets even without the economy crumping.

PIPE

 

[C-150ETOPS]

No Genius. The conspiracy to screw the TWA guys was when 84% of us were stapled.

100 F-100's were headed to the scrap heap along with TWA DC-9's and the 717 was going too. Do the math. 130 or so airplanes were outta there and at normal crew ratios, about 1000 or more (all TWA, even though we weren't the morons that bought Fokkers) were headed to the streets even without the economy crumping.

PIPE

Have you looked at the STL bidsheets lately? Maybe you could inform the group how every 12 leg sequence out of STL works only 2 of the former TWA legs. The rest is flown on legs AA pilots did for 75 years until your Captains hit the lottery. Also, on the typical day, AA pilots only fly around 10 departures out of STL. We probably did more than that before AMR bought TWA.
AA was going to cut a huge chunk off TWA's flying after the buyout. All the short haul STL flying (5 r/t's a day to Moline, DSM and SGF), the Tel Aviv, Cairo and Riyadh ect, the "mini hub" in SJU, and many other routes were going to get whacked. AA knew they were going to cut it, TWA management knew , the AA pilots absolutely knew (after AirCal), the only ones who seemed surprised were the TWA pilots. We'll be throwing rocks forever over this, but at least realize why the seniority merge happened like it did.

I'd also be willing to bet that 90% of the 15 year TWA guys sent packing, had bigger W2's in 2006 than the 15 year AA guys who they feel took their place.

 

[pipe]

Have you looked at the STL bidsheets lately? Maybe you could inform the group how every 12 leg sequence out of STL works only 2 of the former TWA legs. The rest is flown on legs AA pilots did for 75 years until your Captains hit the lottery. Also, on the typical day, AA pilots only fly around 10 departures out of STL. We probably did more than that before AMR bought TWA.
AA was going to cut a huge chunk off TWA's flying after the buyout. All the short haul STL flying (5 r/t's a day to Moline, DSM and SGF), the Tel Aviv, Cairo and Riyadh ect, the "mini hub" in SJU, and many other routes were going to get whacked. AA knew they were going to cut it, TWA management knew , the AA pilots absolutely knew (after AirCal), the only ones who seemed surprised were the TWA pilots. We'll be throwing rocks forever over this, but at least realize why the seniority merge happened like it did.

I'd also be willing to bet that 90% of the 15 year TWA guys sent packing, had bigger W2's in 2006 than the 15 year AA guys who they feel took their place.

The only lottery that got hit was when 2000 AA guys had TWA guys to take the furlough in their place or when 1000 F-100 pilots got MD-80's instead of furlough notices. There's your winning lotto number for the decade.

The 400 guys that got to keep their jobs pales in comparison to the thousands of natives that kept theirs as a direct result of the merger/acquisition/buyout/bankruptcy/9-11/APA, whatever you want to call it today.

PIPE

 

[C-150ETOPS]

The only lottery that got hit was when 2000 AA guys had TWA guys to take the furlough in their place or when 1000 F-100 pilots got MD-80's instead of furlough notices. There's your winning lotto number for the decade.

The 400 guys that got to keep their jobs pales in comparison to the thousands of natives that kept theirs as a direct result of the merger/acquisition/buyout/bankruptcy/9-11/APA, whatever you want to call it today.

PIPE

It's not the planes, it's the routes.

AA guys lost a chunk of their arses to Eagle and city pair drops. The pre 9/11 TWA system lost a greater proportion of it's flying than the AA system did. Who exactly was going to eat the 5 flights a day to Moline and the Tel Aviv flights, AA guys?

I'll agree the blunt, bloody axe hurt more than a few guys in the 1988-1989 range, but as you move into the mid 1990's or later, my understanding and sympathy drop off rather quickly.

Again, have you seen a STL bidsheet lately?

 

[HA25]

It's not the planes, it's the routes.

BINGO!

 

[Big Slick]

AA has some positive things going for it too. We didn't go into bankruptcy. We still have an A and a B fund. Management is still paying into the A fund. We're making money. Our stock is strong. We have a good route system.

I personally think it's wrong for upper management to get giant bonuses while everyone else takes a pay cut. At least they didn't take a big bonus while in bankruptcy. United's management took huge bonuses from their new stock. IMHO, that is much worse.

I'm all for pay raises, but let's not choke the golden goose. One profitable year doesn't mean that everyone is out of the woods just yet. If the price of oil goes back up, AA will be right back in "survival mode."

I hope I'm wrong and the downturn is over. We'll see.

 

[AA717driver]

AA has some positive things going for it too. We didn't go into bankruptcy. We still have an A and a B fund. Management is still paying into the A fund. We're making money. Our stock is strong. We have a good route system.

I personally think it's wrong for upper management to get giant bonuses while everyone else takes a pay cut. At least they didn't take a big bonus while in bankruptcy. United's management took huge bonuses from their new stock. IMHO, that is much worse.

I'm all for pay raises, but let's not choke the golden goose. One profitable year doesn't mean that everyone is out of the woods just yet. If the price of oil goes back up, AA will be right back in "survival mode."

I hope I'm wrong and the downturn is over. We'll see.

Better watch it, Slick, the PDP hit squads will be after you. They'll spirit you away, tie you to a chair and make you read C&R till you puke...well, at least it won't take long. TC

 

[C-150ETOPS]

I'm all for pay raises, but let's not choke the golden goose. One profitable year doesn't mean that everyone is out of the woods just yet. If the price of oil goes back up, AA will be right back in "survival mode."

Fine, if it goes downhill, let them come to us and ask for relief. That will be
easier than trying to get a pay raise during a 6-9 year contract period. What pilot group has not given in when needed over the last 20 years?
If nothing devastating happens, you just paid a hefty insurance premium for future management bonuses.