ExpressJet routes formally announced..

[Booker]

I know you will say that it isn't non stop between some of these cities but if you fill planes SWA can easily adapt and make these flights non stop or worse do the $39 and up fare between these cities, which ExpressJet would never be able to keep up with.

You have no idea what I will write or say. Do not put words in my mouth. Since you are unwilling to provide data for your previous assertion, perhaps you could post the information stating that the ERJ has the most unfavorable CASM "known to man." Again, I'm eager to learn.

 

[cybourg10]

the 145 casm is pretty high, something like 14 cents. Swa is doing about 8 cents right now

 

[superrav]

you morons (few) should be standing by our sides...what happened to raising the bar...???

tip my hat to Air Whisky boys....

 

[Booker]

the 145 casm is pretty high, something like 14 cents. Swa is doing about 8 cents right now

Yeah, I know it's way up there. I'm just messing with FlyWithSean and his amazing knowledge base.

 

[Mercury]

Not to interupt the Kool-Aid drinking and cat fighting but......

Historically, SWA has trashed the competition when they (SWA) entered a new market. From a business and marketing standpoint, it will be very interesting to see how XJT attacks this new "branded flying" and attempts to establish dominance, esp with respect to the cities that SWA already serves, and how SWA counters those efforts. I'd like to see the business plan when SWA is forced to play defense. I'm sure they have a few tricks left in the old hat.

If your in the mood for a good story about a startup airline, I highly reccommend the book NUTS!! This industry needs more guys like Herb!

Disclaimer: I have no dog in this fight, but its gonna be a great history/business lesson from two very progressive and aggressive mgmt teams.

 

[Booker]

Disclaimer: I have no dog in this fight, but its gonna be a great history/business lesson from two very progressive and aggressive mgmt teams.

Agreed. If it works, it will be remarkable. If not, the Flightinfo servers will shut down from the inundation of "I told you so" posts. Good luck to everyone.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but economics are what they are.

They are what they are alright...they are something that airline pilots know absolutely nothing about. The bean counters are paid one hell of a salary to analyze this stuff and make these decisions, so lets let them do their jobs.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

We are only targeting 2x a day service to these cities-- that's only 100 seats a day, very small potatoes in comparison to Southwest, that's less than one 737. They generally like 6-8x service daily or they don't want to bother with it-- that's 800-1100 seats a day.

I doubt they're all that concerned about us (if they have even heard of us) doing a few low frequncy higher priced non-stops. I guess we'll see.

And these plans have been on the shelf waiting for about the last 5 years. The planning and market analysis has not been thown together overnight. We always knew CAL would probably start showing us the door at some point. I hope CAL is enjoying our replacements, they're doing such a fine job.

 

[MINIME]

I have to admitt, I get a little nervous when I hear (I don't know for a fact) that XJT is going head to head on some of these routes against LUV. They are indeed the 800 lb gorilla. But to their credit, I'm glad to see some innovation from a management team who would not take it between the legs. Instead chooses a path that for better or for worse is for the survival of the company and its employees. It shows that they care about their family.

I for one, will be cheering for you guys to make it and to set a new standard in this industry. As pilots, we should all be behind these guys! It will eventually contribute to showing other companies that money can be made without squeezing your employees.

 

[Marko Ramius]

The bean counters are paid one hell of a salary to analyze this stuff and make these decisions, so lets let them do their jobs.

Trust in bean counters, pure genius. These types have never, ever, sent a company or two into BK with their high salaried decisions. Perhaps they could advise you in your next contract negotiation......

 

[ERJFO]

The Jungle Jet is the worst cost per seat known to man. Just ask Independence Air.

How many ERJ's did ACA have? I forget. CASM is a function of multiple things not just A/C type. Educate yourself.

I have to admitt, I get a little nervous when I hear (I don't know for a fact) that XJT is going head to head on some of these routes against LUV.

Only route with head to head competion is GEG-SMF, and thats with QX. All other routes have no curent service. We will also start flying GEG-SMF about a month before Horizon starts service.

 

[bailey3083]

You will compete head to head with LUV on ONT to ABQ, BOI, MCI, GEG,TUL. RDU to BHM, MCI. ABQ to SMF, SAT. AUS to TUL, OKC, MSY, MCI. BOI to SAN. MCI to AUS, SDF,TUS just to name a few. Last reported CASM by Express jet was 14.89. Also do not think for a minute if any of these routes start to look good that the Majors will not put a RJ on the route charge the same price and give double airline miles.
I say this as a former Indy pilot and say you will feel great because you are standing up to your big brother ( Just like we did for walking away from UAL) but because of Airtran, Jetblue, SWA the majors no longer sit back and give you a chance. Example we started service Madison, Wis to IAD and NWA started the same service 2 weeks later charged the same as we did and gave triple airline miles for the flight. When we pulled out of Madison NWA pulled out 2 weeks later. Example #2 we started service from TYS, GSP, CHS, GSO, HSV to TPA and MCO, Delta responded with in 2 weeks with the same service, fares lower then ours and double airline miles. Example #3 we started service from IAD to HSV and UAL responded with same service, same price and double airline miles.
Now we got alot of compliments from locals about our service and how happy they were we came in and lower the price. But they would still fly on the other airlines because they got bigger perks. Now we are gone there are alot of people who wish they would have flown us to keep us in business.
I wish all of you the best of luck but dont drink to much Kool-Aid.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

ExpressJet is not trying to do a Kamikaze attack on any majors' hubs. Name one, if you can. The whole idea is hub bypass, not hub competition.

If majors want to yank their RJs off their hub service, fine. Then they take it in the pants in their hub feed while their RJs fight with us over very thinly travelled city pairs. Unless there is some magic source of extra RJ airframes just sitting idle waiting to go to compete with us, I doubt many majors will want to even bother with it.

The SWA service you mentioned is not non-stop flights. If you want a cheaper ticket and airport appreciation time for 2 or 3 legs, then take SWA. But if you want to get where you want to go 2-3 hours earlier, fly xjet. It's mostly a business choice for business people, I don't think the leisure traveler is our prime target, but if someone shows up with some carry ons such as garbage bags wrapped in duct tape, I am sure we will happily sell that person a ticket.

If SWA wants to do these routes non-stop, that's fine too. They can fly around some 2/3 empty planes. Not exactly what they like to do.

I think there's room for us. This is actually what this airplane was really meant to do, before they all got sucked in to hub feed contracts.

 

[vectorvictor]

They are what they are alright...they are something that airline pilots know absolutely nothing about. The bean counters are paid one hell of a salary to analyze this stuff and make these decisions, so lets let them do their jobs.

I'm not one to point out the obvious, but you're an itiot. just kidding but seriously.....

#1 The cost of running an CRJ versus a 737 is higher. About 35% CASM.

#2 Horizon makes money because they operate quiet, reliable, turbo props and have a great service record. They are the only airline I know of that drove SWA out of a market. The CASM is much lower than a 737. (About 30% on the Q400.)

#3 In a cost war, the competitor willing and able to provide service for the cheapest price (regardless of the cost to them 3of the service) will win. Sometimes both competitors operate at a significant loss. (As with the case with Indy....which was a great company of great people that got taken down a horrible business track by a bunch of overpaid morons)

#4 Human nature means people will only select flights based on price. The cheaper the better regardless of what type plane it is. Your average customer doesn't know the aircraft type at all.

Lets say over the course of a month 10000 people will fly out of ONT to some destination served by SWA. SWA currently charges $150 average per segment on this route and nets 3 million dollars. The cost is $142 per segment so thats a profit of $160,000. Enter low cost carrier B who matches fairs and wins half the business. SWA gets pissed and drops fares to $100 average and operates at a LOSS to drive out the competition. Since SWA's pockets are deeper it can sustain this operation for a longer period of time; the competition leaves the market. They reset price to profitable average yield and continue smiling. These RJs need to operate on routes where point to point service demands a premium which can eat their higher operating cost and is a small enough market where a competitor with a 125 seat airplane isn't interested in the business.

Don't be a sheep.

 

[Superpilot92]

ExpressJet is not trying to do a Kamikaze attack on any majors' hubs. Name one, if you can. The whole idea is hub bypass, not hub competition.

If majors want to yank their RJs off their hub service, fine. Then they take it in the pants in their hub feed while their RJs fight with us over very thinly travelled city pairs. Unless there is some magic source of extra RJ airframes just sitting idle waiting to go to compete with us, I doubt many majors will want to even bother with it.

The SWA service you mentioned is not non-stop flights. If you want a cheaper ticket and airport appreciation time for 2 or 3 legs, then take SWA. But if you want to get where you want to go 2-3 hours earlier, fly xjet. It's mostly a business choice for business people, I don't think the leisure traveler is our prime target, but if someone shows up with some carry ons such as garbage bags wrapped in duct tape, I am sure we will happily sell that person a ticket.

If SWA wants to do these routes non-stop, that's fine too. They can fly around some 2/3 empty planes. Not exactly what they like to do.

I think there's room for us. This is actually what this airplane was really meant to do, before they all got sucked in to hub feed contracts.

Thats not to mention SWA doesnt have the airframes to start just throwing them on our Routes. They cant get planes fast enough for their current plan let alone try and compete with us where it only will take about 20 people or so to break even for us. Dont think swa will go after those 20-50 people. We'll see though.

 

[BeachBummer]

Does anyone know if ONT is going to be a senior or junior base?

CA went very junior. I hold it and there will be 25 junior to me afew months down the list. I was hired in mar. 05

 

[XJETDriver]

You will compete head to head with LUV on ONT to ABQ, BOI, MCI, GEG,TUL. RDU to BHM, MCI. ABQ to SMF, SAT. AUS to TUL, OKC, MSY, MCI. BOI to SAN. MCI to AUS, SDF,TUS just to name a few. Last reported CASM by Express jet was 14.89. Also do not think for a minute if any of these routes start to look good that the Majors will not put a RJ on the route charge the same price and give double airline miles.
I say this as a former Indy pilot and say you will feel great because you are standing up to your big brother ( Just like we did for walking away from UAL) but because of Airtran, Jetblue, SWA the majors no longer sit back and give you a chance. Example we started service Madison, Wis to IAD and NWA started the same service 2 weeks later charged the same as we did and gave triple airline miles for the flight. When we pulled out of Madison NWA pulled out 2 weeks later. Example #2 we started service from TYS, GSP, CHS, GSO, HSV to TPA and MCO, Delta responded with in 2 weeks with the same service, fares lower then ours and double airline miles. Example #3 we started service from IAD to HSV and UAL responded with same service, same price and double airline miles.
Now we got alot of compliments from locals about our service and how happy they were we came in and lower the price. But they would still fly on the other airlines because they got bigger perks. Now we are gone there are alot of people who wish they would have flown us to keep us in business.
I wish all of you the best of luck but dont drink to much Kool-Aid.

What major is going to start point to point service?
What major will start service from
JAX to MCI,AUS,MSY
MSY to SAT,AUS,MCI
TUS to MCI,AUS,SAT,ONT
Where are these airframes going to come from if someone does?
What did you guys have besides flying for yourself?
Why would you fly out of IAD and compete with everyone else?