Alpa President John Prater's Video Response To Age 60

[PCL_128]

It's time to recall prater.

Yep. Still the worst idea ever proposed on this board.

 

[FNG_that's me]

Yep. Still the worst idea ever proposed on this board.

Well then, how about some suggestions on good ideas!

 

[PCL_128]

Well then, how about some suggestions on good ideas!

Good ideas? Let's start with accepting reality: the rule will change. I don't like it, you don't like it, a majority of the membership doesn't like it, but it is going to happen. We can't stop it at this point. All we can do is minimize the damage. This is called pragmatism, guys. You shouldn't be fighting a futile fight. Focus on the fight that you can actually win: designing the new rule in a way that harms us the least. This is what the Association is currently doing, and it's the smart way to go. Crying and attacking Captain Prater is not productive, and it won't save the age-60 rule for you.

 

[FNG_that's me]

Good ideas? Let's start with accepting reality: the rule will change. I don't like it, you don't like it, a majority of the membership doesn't like it, but it is going to happen. We can't stop it at this point. All we can do is minimize the damage. This is called pragmatism, guys. You shouldn't be fighting a futile fight. Focus on the fight that you can actually win: designing the new rule in a way that harms us the least. This is what the Association is currently doing, and it's the smart way to go. Crying and attacking Captain Prater is not productive, and it won't save the age-60 rule for you.

I said good ideas, not giving up ideas!

 

[Phaedrus]

Frenchie!

 

[PCL_128]

I said good ideas, not giving up ideas!

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that this isn't going to happen, then have at it.

 

[seefive]

PCL.

Continuing to fight against a rule change that ALPA's majority wants to retain isn't sticking your head in the sand. Wake up jackass.

 

[FNG_that's me]

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that this isn't going to happen, then have at it.

I'm looking for good ideas...still waiting.

Keeping my head in the sand would be assuming ALPA is going to do what it's charged to do by the majority!

 

[PCL_128]

I'm looking for good ideas...still waiting.

And you'll be waiting a very long time if you're idea of a good idea is trying to save a rule that is already doomed.

 

[FNG_that's me]

And you'll be waiting a very long time if you're idea of a good idea is trying to save a rule that is already doomed.

So are you saying that SWAPA and JB(no representation) won over ALPA on this one...say it isn't so.

I fear that this could be the end of ALPA, which would suck because imagine how bad this job would be without them...however, I don't see the majority sitting around and taking this one.

 

[Freight Dog]

PCL... the issue here is not the perception of reality as much as it is deception by Prater.

Here is the type of deception I'm talking about:

I understand your pilot group is in negotiations. You polled your members and they want raises and improved work rules. Your MEC is saying that they'll go with the majority. So here comes the Company offer telling you that this is their last, final and best offer which is basically status quo. It doesn't even come close to what your membership wanted. The membership spoke loud and clear that they'll walk out given the current conditions.

Well damn, now you need to build your PIC turbine time and you say damn... screw these guys. How about we do an MEC ratification, sign this contract and get it over with, and that's what you end up doing.

That's basically what Prater did in a nutshell. He saw that the majority of ALPA was against the rule change. Yet, he wants the rule to change. So he paid a lip service to the majority in ALPA and now started this whole implementation blue-ribbon crapola without even putting up a fight.

Prater needs to go.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Guys.. if the change is coming.... and the majority doesn't want the change...what do you suggest?

FNG?
seefive?
Frieght dog?

(that's not for me to figure out isn't an answer....)

 

[PCL_128]

So are you saying that SWAPA and JB(no representation) won over ALPA on this one...say it isn't so.

No, this had nothing to do with SWAPA or JetBlew, or any other airline or union. In my opinion, this had to do with an FAA Administrator that wanted to make her mark on the history of the organization, and the ICAO rule change (which IFALPA fought, by the way) gave her the excuse to do it. Nothing that any union said would have changed that.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL... the issue here is not the perception of reality as much as it is deception by Prater.

Here is the type of deception I'm talking about:

I understand your pilot group is in negotiations. You polled your members and they want raises and improved work rules. Your MEC is saying that they'll go with the majority. So here comes the Company offer telling you that this is their last, final and best offer which is basically status quo. It doesn't even come close to what your membership wanted. The membership spoke loud and clear that they'll walk out given the current conditions.

Well dang, now you need to build your PIC turbine time and you say dang... screw these guys. How about we do an MEC ratification, sign this contract and get it over with, and that's what you end up doing.

Your analogy is faulty. Pilot groups have a recourse if management refuses to bargain in good faith: self-help. We will continue to fight for what the membership has directed us to fight for, and if management refuses to capitulate, then self-help will eventually be an option.

No such option exists in this case. The rule is going to change. Period. We have no recourse. When it changes, it's done, and we're stuck with whatever it looks like. We need to make sure that what it looks like is at least somewhat palatable. That's what the blue-ribbon panel is going to work on.

That's basically what Prater did in a nutshell. He saw that the majority of ALPA was against the rule change. Yet, he wants the rule to change. So he paid a lip service to the majority in ALPA and now started this whole implementation blue-ribbon crapola without even putting up a fight.

Captain Woerth told several MECs long before the election that this was likely going to be coming down the pike very soon. This has nothing to do with Captain Prater's own personal opinions. I never heard Captain Woerth say anything remotely in favor of a rule change, either publicly or in private, so I have no problem believing that this rule change was out of our control. We fought it valiantly for over two decades, but there's nothing left that we can do to stop it now.

Prater needs to go.

I hear a lot of you saying this, but I haven't seen anyone offer an alternative. The same people that attacked Captain Woerth are now attacking Captain Prater. You want both of them gone, so who is going to replace them if you get rid of them? I'll remind you that they were the only two candidates.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Change: Adapt or die....

 

[Andy]

Guys.. if the change is coming.... and the majority doesn't want the change...what do you suggest?

FNG?
seefive?
Frieght dog?

(that's not for me to figure out isn't an answer....)

I guess that I'm chopped liver, eh?

It doesn't matter whether or not the change is 'coming.' It matters that the ALPA president failed to represent the MAJORITY of ALPA, as per multiple polls.
Send a message to the world ... recall the president of ALPA who pushed for the change, in spite of what the majority wanted. It may not stop the change, but it is for the good of ALPA. An ALPA president who goes against the majority DESERVES to be recalled.

 

[Andy]

I hear a lot of you saying this, but I haven't seen anyone offer an alternative. The same people that attacked Captain Woerth are now attacking Captain Prater. You want both of them gone, so who is going to replace them if you get rid of them? I'll remind you that they were the only two candidates.

I don't care. prater has gone against the majority of the membership. Woerth didn't bother me; he was a politician. prater is a liar.
As for candidates, you and I both know that there are plenty who would be more than happy to pop out of the woodwork IF there was a chance to be elected, so don't waste bandwidth talking about just two candidates. That does NOT justify prater's lies.

 

[Freight Dog]

Your analogy is faulty. Pilot groups have a recourse if management refuses to bargain in good faith: self-help. We will continue to fight for what the membership has directed us to fight for, and if management refuses to capitulate, then self-help will eventually be an option.

You need to re-read my post. I used a hypothetical scenario of the MEC going against the membership and signing a dirtbag contract through MEC ratification process effectively negating any self-help possibility and also disregarding the majority. That's very similar to what happened here. Prater effectively ignored the majority to serve his own agenda.

No such option exists in this case. The rule is going to change. Period. We have no recourse. When it changes, it's done, and we're stuck with whatever it looks like. We need to make sure that what it looks like is at least somewhat palatable. That's what the blue-ribbon panel is going to work on.

Whether or not the rule will change is irrelevant in this case. What IS relevant is that Prater sold out the majority and gave this up without a fight. As such, I support recalling him just for that reason, and that reason alone.

Captain Woerth told several MECs long before the election that this was likely going to be coming down the pike very soon. This has nothing to do with Captain Prater's own personal opinions. I never heard Captain Woerth say anything remotely in favor of a rule change, either publicly or in private, so I have no problem believing that this rule change was out of our control. We fought it valiantly for over two decades, but there's nothing left that we can do to stop it now.

Uh huh... Prater comes in and less than a month, out comes the NPRM, and his response was blue ribbon. Now why is that? You can't tell me that APAAD, SWAPA and JB have more political clout than ALPA. Prater openly said he was in favor of repealing the rule, but will oppose it if the majority opposes it. The majority opposed it, and he didn't do a damn thing to at least try to stop it. His idea of "opposing it" is this blue ribbon b.s. Please! This man ran a good campaign, but lost all my trust with this issue. I will back any effort to recall him.

I hear a lot of you saying this, but I haven't seen anyone offer an alternative. The same people that attacked Captain Woerth are now attacking Captain Prater. You want both of them gone, so who is going to replace them if you get rid of them? I'll remind you that they were the only two candidates.

How about this fight for our profession? He sold out the majority for his own gain. In recent history, ALPA has vigorously and actively opposed any rule change. In comes Prater, and that vigorous and active opposition to any change of age 60 rule is out. The end result is this NPRM.

I don't care who replaces him, but I hope it's someone with integrity to follow wishes of the majority as opposed to following his own self-serving agenda.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess that I'm chopped liver, eh?

It doesn't matter whether or not the change is 'coming.' It matters that the ALPA president failed to represent the MAJORITY of ALPA, as per multiple polls.
Send a message to the world ... recall the president of ALPA who pushed for the change, in spite of what the majority wanted. It may not stop the change, but it is for the good of ALPA. An ALPA president who goes against the majority DESERVES to be recalled.

so recalling Prater is your solution to the Age 60 issue? After the recall then what? Specifically, Chopped Liver, what is your next move?

 

[Freight Dog]

Guys.. if the change is coming.... and the majority doesn't want the change...what do you suggest?

FNG?
seefive?
Frieght dog?

(that's not for me to figure out isn't an answer....)

When the change is the result of already being sold out, it's too late for anything but a recall.

Originally, I was hoping for an active campaign by ALPA to first prevent this from ever becoming an NPRM; alternatively, active and vocal opposition to stop this NPRM from ever becoming a rule. Blue Ribbon ain't it.