Pinnacle purchases 15 Q400

[ImbracableCrunk]

400 Miles.

Not knowing the scope, what's the violation? Is it owned versus operated or leased, or what?

 

[greedypilot]

How long til Colgan absolutely destroys those brand new aircraft ?

Maybe Colgan will stop being a bottom feeder.. doubtful

 

[Smarta$$]

Pinnacle airlines corp. purchased the planes from the manufacture. Continental purchased the capacity on those planes.

 

[dingo222]

purchased the capacity? What does that mean? That the planes can only be operated for CAl, of the pcl gets money back to offset the purchase price?

 

[foreverfo]

Like with XJT, CAL bought the seats. So matter if it's full or empty, PCL gets paid. Plus the gas is free.

 

[dingo222]

gotcha, thanks

 

[Lear70]

purchased the capacity? What does that mean? That the planes can only be operated for CAl, of the pcl gets money back to offset the purchase price?

It means, in very clear language, that:

First, Pinnacle Airlines has purchased and will operate these new aircraft for Continental.

Second, that Continental has purchased ALL the capacity, meaning every seat on every flight, for its own use. That can be regular 121 ops, that can be charter, it's basically anything done that's not a 91 reposition flight. No one else will be able to put meat in the seats.

Third, that Pinnacle Airlines is going to operate these aircraft WITHOUT Pinnacle Airlines pilots. A direct violation of the Scope section of the contract.

There WILL be a lawsuit filed immediately (I'm sure ALPA was prepared for it). Part of my guess of why the early announcement is multi-part, some for stock prices, some of it likely to see how the lawsuit from ALPA washes out.

What you won't see is probably some of the union guys from PCL posting on here. Now that it's a full-blown law suit they'll likely be told not to discuss it, even anonymously.

A couple weeks ago when PCL purchased Colgan, I told you it would be a VERY short time until we saw how Corporate was going to run it, and I warned you that it would probably be negative.

Most of your Colgan guys said that myself and others were WAY too pessimistic and operating WAY too fast for your comfort.

Well, all I can say is: welcome to Pinnacle, where you WILL get screwed at the earliest possible moment.

You are benefiting now; when it no longer benefits management to benefit you, it will be YOUR turn to get screwed. Count on it.

The BEST thing your pilot group could do is approach PCL ALPA and start a union drive for Colgan pilots NOW.

If you don't, then the rest of the industry will know where you stand. I'm not going to make airline comparisons, I'm sure you know of many precedents for this, but it would be AMAZINGLY refreshing to see a group of pilots put their foot down against the whipsawing that has taken over this industry.

 

[PCL_128]

Well, all I can say is: welcome to Pinnacle, where you WILL get screwed at the earliest possible moment.

Yep, that pretty much sums up life at Pinnacle.

 

[SEVEN]

I love it.....I bought Pinnacle stock at $4.50!

Nice...a 300% return. Hopefully you bought alot.

 

[DeucesWild]

Yep, that pretty much sums up life at Pinnacle.

How is it you got screwed at Pinnacle? You got hired there with just a handful of GIA Beech 1900 hours and minimumally qualified at best. You got to upgrade at the first possible opportunity (when you met the minimum requirement) and got paid the whole time exactly what PCL said they were going to pay you when you hired on. You are building 121 PIC time in a jet.

You should be grateful for the opportunity you have had. But NO, you constantly come on here telling everyone how Pinnacle management has screwed you. Please tell us, exactly how has Pinnacle failed you?

Whiners get very little respect from me!!

 

[Lear70]

You got to upgrade at the first possible opportunity (when you met the minimum requirement) and got paid the whole time exactly what PCL said they were going to pay you when you hired on.

Please tell us, exactly how has Pinnacle failed you?

Because your first argument doesn't tell the whole story at Pinnacle.

Yes, he upgraded quickly. He was promised that when he hired on, good for him.

Yes, he got paid per the contractual rate.

What you probably don't know is how many times he got his pay shorted for a cancellation that was coded differently to cheat him out of 100% cancellation pay.

What you certainly don't know is how terrible QOL has become at PCL compared to when he hired on; same thing happened to me. We both hired on under 14 day off averages, commutable trips, and 12 hour average overnights. It turned into 12 day off averages, all uncommutable (taking you down to 7 or 8 days off), and all reduced rest trips.

That alone for an extended period of time is enough to p*ss anyone off.

Then, since he is one of the MEC members, he gets to see first-hand all the contract violations, grievances, wrongful suspensions and terminations, and management bad-faith bargaining. Over a period of time, that as well is enough to totally turn someone off from your initial good luck.

It's not a sweat shop, but it's NOT a good place to work. So his "whining" is certainly justified. I understand why you might think it juvenile to complain with his gains early in his career, but you have to understand what PCL pilots, especially the ALPA volunteers, have to put up with over there.

I can't IMAGINE going back there; I'd go back to day charter or a 121 Supplemental freight operator first.

 

[TurboAWD]

Horizon pays up to $114/hr for left seat in one of those (plus all the other goodies in their contract). I wonder what Phil is going to offer you guys at Colgan.

It is a nice airplane, I'm sure you will enjoy flying it.

Turbo

 

[DeucesWild]

It's not a sweat shop, but it's NOT a good place to work. So his "whining" is certainly justified. I understand why you might think it juvenile to complain with his gains early in his career, but you have to understand what PCL pilots, especially the ALPA volunteers, have to put up with over there.

I know what it is like to work at Pinnacle. I worked there. Upgraded in a little over a year. Got my 1000 PIC and moved on. I considered it a good place to work. I was never shorted on my pay, nor did I ever feel a need to file a grievance. It was a regional airline, with regional airline pay and work rules. It was no better or no worse than any of the other regionals out there.

I very much enjoyed working there, except when I had to fly with the likes of Lear70 or PCL128 and listen to their constant barrage of PCL bashing and whining. That could make for some VERY long hours on the flightdeck. At least I could escape it when they would sit in the crew room and constantly whine, complain, and generally be miserable to be around.

I never complained, went to work with a smile on my face, and am grateful for the opportunity that I had there. The upgrade was fast, the training was adequate, the equipment was new, the maintenance was good, and most of the crews were GREAT.

NO REGRETS !!

 

[SEVEN]

How long til Colgan absolutely destroys those brand new aircraft ?

Maybe Colgan will stop being a bottom feeder.. doubtful

Not as fast as the former "Express 1" destroyed the B- Model Saabs/

 

[CA1900]

It was a regional airline, with regional airline pay and work rules. It was no better or no worse than any of the other regionals out there.

A guy I know went to work there a little over five years ago. He got to enjoy 14 weeks of training (from DOH to finishing IOE) with no pay, no per-diem, and buying his own hotel room. How is that not worse than any of the other regionals out there?

 

[Poahi]

It's not Pinnacle, it's Colgan Express! Just kidding guys. Good luck with your scope fight. In the end, you'll be a bigger stronger company.

 

[Lear70]

I know what it is like to work at Pinnacle. I worked there. Upgraded in a little over a year. Got my 1000 PIC and moved on. I considered it a good place to work. I was never shorted on my pay, nor did I ever feel a need to file a grievance. It was a regional airline, with regional airline pay and work rules. It was no better or no worse than any of the other regionals out there.

Times have changed.

It's a lot worse than most of the other quality regionals.

As far as grievances goes, you're probably one of those useless sacks that would complain but never file a grievance or probably didn't even pay attention to your pay to notice you were getting hosed.

I still have over a dozen outstanding grievances over pay or other contract violation issues. I'm not alone. PCL has more outstanding grievances than ANY other airline IN EXISTENCE in the U.S.

I think that proves our point quite nicely.

I very much enjoyed working there, except when I had to fly with the likes of Lear70 or PCL128 and listen to their constant barrage of PCL bashing and whining. That could make for some VERY long hours on the flightdeck. At least I could escape it when they would sit in the crew room and constantly whine, complain, and generally be miserable to be around.

Of course, you singling us out wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that you're debating us, would it?

Guys like you are always amusing. Instead of debating facts, you launch into personal attacks.

I never complained, went to work with a smile on my face, and am grateful for the opportunity that I had there. The upgrade was fast, the training was adequate, the equipment was new, the maintenance was good, and most of the crews were GREAT.

NO REGRETS !!

HAH! Of course you can say that now... hiding behind the cover of anonymity with a lurker screen name. Betcha you're not man enough to PM one of us and tell us who you are.

But excellent method of sidetracking a thread that didn't have ANYTHING to do with your rant against an individual person(s).

Anyone else want to try to get the thread back on track?

 

[Longhorn]

Hey Guys, lets get the thread back on track or the banning will start....

um...wait a minute, never mind

Seriously though, it will be interesting to see what happens in the end of all this. I was there just under 6 years and I while I was treated well for the most part, there were many that had major problems, especially when it came to grievances. Mgmt there does not care about you, their main concern is bottom line. Once everyone figures that out the fight will be much easier.

 

[Lear70]

LOL - that was quick. Your name is no longer in BOLD.

 

[PCL_128]

How is it you got screwed at Pinnacle? You got hired there with just a handful of GIA Beech 1900 hours and minimumally qualified at best. You got to upgrade at the first possible opportunity (when you met the minimum requirement) and got paid the whole time exactly what PCL said they were going to pay you when you hired on. You are building 121 PIC time in a jet.

You should be grateful for the opportunity you have had. But NO, you constantly come on here telling everyone how Pinnacle management has screwed you. Please tell us, exactly how has Pinnacle failed you?

Whiners get very little respect from me!!

Ahhh, I see. You're one of those guys afflicted with Shiny Jet Syndrome. Everything is right with the world as long as you get to fly a shiny jet and wear four bars on your shoulders. Sorry, but some of us expect some crazy, unreasonable things like decent pay, good QOL, and perhaps just a touch of respect. But if you're happy with your SJS, then have at it.