Age 65 proposal from another board

[SOVT]

How about this for a compromise; raise the retirement age to 65 BUT establish a fund to compensate any pilot that retires at age 60 for his/her lost wages. We could restrict the payout of these funds to those who have been in this industry for twenty years or more, lost their pensions thru bankruptcy, involuntarily not have had more than 24 months of Captain seat time and have two or more furloughs under their belt. You know, those of us that have been hammered by this industry for a decade or two.

The federal government could fund this proposal thru the implementation of a gross payroll tax on anyone who checks out as a captain after the effective date of the legislation. I would guess that an above the line tax surcharge of about 10% ought to do it.

The beauty of this proposal is that it would allow those who have been severely affected by the bad times in this industry to have a decent retirement and at the same time allow you young guys the Captain’s seat you so desperately crave, albeit with a small financial penalty.

C’mon be willing to compromise, step up to the plate, pony up a little cash and you guys can have my seat. Hell, give me the pension I was “promised” (back then that was kind of like the age 60 rule) and I will gladly retire today.

 

[kwick]

APA gave us the "B" scale, now they're against the age 65 rule. Guy's, this is a great deal for everybody, if you look down the road a few years. Think long term. As much as you might be against this right now, it probably will mean about a million dollars to you, if you consider you're 401k's or retirement plans and insurance coverage. I'll bet you a domestic beer that when you're 50 or 55, you'll be for this. I know you might not believe this now, but I think you will. Just consider the possibility.

 

[Huck]

Guy's, this is a great deal for everybody

With all due respect, it's a great deal for everybody that's in a captain's seat when the rule changes.

For everybody else it is less money, less B fund, less bidding seniority and a chance to die/get violated when the 64 year olds can't cut it when the sh!t hits the fan. The money I make from 60-65 (if I'm one of the ~66% who can keep their medical that long) will be after my kids are out of the house and through college and my house is paid off - i.e. I won't need it then.

My company has already slowed hiring down, Kwick.Talk to some furloughees about this and they're not going to be too excited either. And take a look at the time value of money. Thanks

 

[Purpled]

APA gave us the "B" scale, now they're against the age 65 rule. Guy's, this is a great deal for everybody, if you look down the road a few years. Think long term. As much as you might be against this right now, it probably will mean about a million dollars to you, if you consider you're 401k's or retirement plans and insurance coverage. I'll bet you a domestic beer that when you're 50 or 55, you'll be for this. I know you might not believe this now, but I think you will. Just consider the possibility.

This is only a great deal if you are 58 or older and want to fly past 60 in your current seat. It is a screw job for everybody else.

5 more years of being junior, 5 more years of not being a captain, 5 more years to put fatigue on your body. 5 more years to get hired at a major if you're not there yet.

That's not even considering that the companies will play this off as '5 more years of income for you' and your compensation will be affected. Don't even think about negotiating The IRS might have its eyes on your b-fund too. This is a BAD IDEA that we will rue years from now if it manages to go through.

The 58/59 y/olds have nothing to lose and are willing to ruin the job to get what they want. They are truly worthy of the title- the Greediest Generation.

 

[Jolly Roger]

This is only a great deal if you are 58 or older and want to fly past 60 in your current seat. It is a screw job for everybody else.

5 more years of being junior, 5 more years of not being a captain, 5 more years to put fatigue on your body. 5 more years to get hired at a major if you're not there yet.

That's not even considering that the companies will play this off as '5 more years of income for you' and your compensation will be affected. Don't even think about negotiating The IRS might have its eyes on your b-fund too. This is a BAD IDEA that we will rue years from now if it manages to go through.

The 58/59 y/olds have nothing to lose and are willing to ruin the job to get what they want. They are truly worthy of the title- the Greediest Generation.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Benhuntn]

that sounds like a lot of hooooie to me you should work for the govt not flying airplanes....get over it change is here.

 

[Purpled]

you should work for the govt not flying airplanes.

You mean like for the FAA?

P.S. What's hooooie?

 

[Flopgut]

APA gave us the "B" scale, now they're against the age 65 rule. Guy's, this is a great deal for everybody, if you look down the road a few years. Think long term. As much as you might be against this right now, it probably will mean about a million dollars to you, if you consider you're 401k's or retirement plans and insurance coverage. I'll bet you a domestic beer that when you're 50 or 55, you'll be for this. I know you might not believe this now, but I think you will. Just consider the possibility.

Looking "down the road a few years"..... This will be the same rationale mgts will use to decline giving a raise to, or even insist on a paycut from pilots. (other airline workers will be able to better bargain outright for more)

Your looking down a shorter road than many of us. It's going to take 2 contract cycles, and a decade+ to get through this.....

 

[Flopgut]

How about this for a compromise; raise the retirement age to 65 BUT establish a fund to compensate any pilot that retires at age 60 for his/her lost wages. We could restrict the payout of these funds to those who have been in this industry for twenty years or more, lost their pensions thru bankruptcy, involuntarily not have had more than 24 months of Captain seat time and have two or more furloughs under their belt. You know, those of us that have been hammered by this industry for a decade or two.

The federal government could fund this proposal thru the implementation of a gross payroll tax on anyone who checks out as a captain after the effective date of the legislation. I would guess that an above the line tax surcharge of about 10% ought to do it.

The beauty of this proposal is that it would allow those who have been severely affected by the bad times in this industry to have a decent retirement and at the same time allow you young guys the Captain’s seat you so desperately crave, albeit with a small financial penalty.

C’mon be willing to compromise, step up to the plate, pony up a little cash and you guys can have my seat. Hell, give me the pension I was “promised” (back then that was kind of like the age 60 rule) and I will gladly retire today.

This is a good idea.

 

[Thedude]

C’mon be willing to compromise, step up to the plate, pony up a little cash and you guys can have my seat. Hell, give me the pension I was “promised” (back then that was kind of like the age 60 rule) and I will gladly retire today.

So are you saying ther has never been bad times in this industry before? That this industry isn't cyclical? Hmm Pan Am, Braniff? You didn't learn anything?

 

[DLax85]

andy,

....as far as those over 60 going to the right seat ALPA will NEVER allow this. they want the CA's 2% and not the FO's 2%. economically to them, it doesn't make sense.

???

If this doesn't change the total # of CAs and FOs how does it change what ALPA collects?

They'd still be getting their 2% from the same # of Capts and FOs....it would just be different people sitting in those seats sending in checks, wouldn't it?

 

[Purpled]

???

If this doesn't change the total # of CAs and FOs how does it change what ALPA collects?

They'd still be getting their 2% from the same # of Capts and FOs....it would just be different people sitting in those seats sending in checks, wouldn't it?

Agreed, I think the dues might actually go down if this goes through. All the Ropes will move back to the front, force a slide backwards for everybody else; now those back seats will be filled with junior guys making much less than the old guys(54-70 vice 120 here at purple).

 

[DLax85]

Agreed, I think the dues might actually go down if this goes through. All the Ropes will move back to the front, force a slide backwards for everybody else; now those back seats will be filled with junior guys making much less than the old guys(54-70 vice 120 here at purple).

OK, copy that logic.....however, if hiring does slow (or stop) the avg yrs of experience in the back goes up in the short-term (i.e. little to no "new hires" anymore, who don't pay any first year dues)....I really hope ALPA doesn't make any decisions based on the amount of $ they collect, but hey I've been naive on other issues before.

If a change does occur, I think we need to fight tooth and nail to keep age 60 as the min age to retire with full benefits (i.e. no penalty for retiring between age 60 and 64)....I think those battles will need to be fought at each airline over the next few contacts. Hopefully, FEDEX can help lead the charge and set the standard.

 

[FNG_that's me]

......................

Is this thing on, or did it freeze up on everybody else too?

 

[FNG_that's me]

OK, what I was trying to say was:

Don't hold your breath on age 60 retirement. Perhaps for one cycle of contracts, because the senior [ALPA] folks will fight tooth and nail for it in the short term, since it benefits them. After that, we won't have enough negotiating power to fight this battle, along with all the others.

This will cause several hundred thousand dollars in lost income to everyone who wants to be a captain some day. Think how pissed you'd be if they came an stole your house from you, that's about what this amounts to.


ALPA member in good standing, but with a bad attitude!!

 

[afhercdriver]

Don't take my house!

Think how pissed you'd be if they came an stole your house from you, that's about what this amounts to.

This really puts it in perspective!

 

[pipe]

Actually, if I caught some old ba$tard putting the wheels back on my house and trying to steal it, he'd get his a$$ beat. Unfortunately, I think walking into ops and knocking heads would have an even more devastating economic impact.

BOHICA


Pipe