Is Skywest ALPA drive dead?

[vtech]

Seems like the drive started a long time ago. How many have signed up?

 

[joesmiley]

Nope, got a phone call 2 nights ago. Very professional conversation with a member of the Mesaba MEC. It would seem from our conversation they are making the final push.

 

[SSDD]

While there are a few(key word "few") diehards. There appears to be very little support for it. There are too many refugees from other ALPA carriers that have it worse than Skywest. These guys are making a lot of noise. Also a lot of guys who were instructing 6 months ago working 20 hour days, 6 days/week.

 

[doug_or]

While there are a few(key word "few") diehards. There appears to be very little support for it. There are too many refugees from other ALPA carriers that have it worse than Skywest. These guys are making a lot of noise. Also a lot of guys who were instructing 6 months ago working 20 hour days, 6 days/week.

Yeah, ALPA seems to be a pretty hard sell to Mesa refugees.

 

[CFIT]

Overall it's pretty much dead. I heard that some of the cards on record are expiring and falling off the count.

My guess is it is failing miserably otherwise I think the ALPA OC guys would be thumping their chest more.

That being said I believe we will be in perpetual state of union drive for a few more years.

 

[~~~^~~~]

One of the bills before the new Congress would change the method of union certification and not require a vote. My understanding is the representation would hinge on the number of cards submitted.

Unions have been die hard supporters of the Democrats and it is payback time.

The pendulum swung towards labor for a change, but the real power remains in the White House.

 

[Puck Mugger]

Overall it's pretty much dead. I heard that some of the cards on record are expiring and falling off the count.

My guess is it is failing miserably otherwise I think the ALPA OC guys would be thumping their chest more.

That being said I believe we will be in perpetual state of union drive for a few more years.

The cards are good for a year. I don't want the facts to get in the way of one of your ALPA bashes, however.

 

[rickair7777]

Dead. they pumped it up as much as it would go, and now it is deflating.

Like somebody said, too many 121 refugees who have already had the alpa regional experience.

 

[HelloNewman]

It's pretty much dead but not quite. I mean lets be realistic here you can look back roughly two years on this site to where the rumblings started. If they want 75% of the cards signed they better get busy before the cards start expiring. Also if the laws do change I would think they have to change the wording on the cards and start all over again. A vote is the best way to do it. You should be able to vote yes or no on such an important issue. People can easily be manipulated into signing anything. I wouldn't count on it anytime soon which is a good thing. As long as I don't have to pay dues if it gets voted in then I don't really care one way or the other, as long as the former non members don't have to pay dues unless they want to.

 

[superatr]

This is what dead looks like?

In a 24-hour period, more than 20 ALPA pilots contacted approximately 1,200 SkyWest pilots as part of a new outreach program.

Through this initiative, the Association will use pilots throughout ALPA’s vast system to establish an ALPA-wide Pilot-to-Pilot® committee to work on our current SkyWest organizing campaign, as well as other organizing campaigns in the near future.

“ALPA wants to help SkyWest pilots secure a stable and prosperous job, now and in the future,” said ALPA’s president, Capt. John Prater. “That’s true for the high percentage of SkyWest pilots who will go on to work at ALPA carriers, and for the SkyWest pilots who will be at SkyWest for their careers.”

Each pilot has an important role to play in the future of this Association as ALPA’s ambassadors. You are ALPA, and you, better than any newsletter or website, can talk about what it means to be a part of this effective union. If you are interested in participating in this outreach program, please e-mail Ron Rindfleisch, from ALPA’s Communications Department, at Ron.Rindfleisch at alpa.org.

 

[HelloNewman]

In a 24-hour period, more than 20 ALPA pilots contacted approximately 1,200 SkyWest pilots as part of a new outreach program.

Through this initiative, the Association will use pilots throughout ALPA’s vast system to establish an ALPA-wide Pilot-to-Pilot® committee to work on our current SkyWest organizing campaign, as well as other organizing campaigns in the near future.

“ALPA wants to help SkyWest pilots secure a stable and prosperous job, now and in the future,” said ALPA’s president, Capt. John Prater. “That’s true for the high percentage of SkyWest pilots who will go on to work at ALPA carriers, and for the SkyWest pilots who will be at SkyWest for their careers.”

Each pilot has an important role to play in the future of this Association as ALPA’s ambassadors. You are ALPA, and you, better than any newsletter or website, can talk about what it means to be a part of this effective union. If you are interested in participating in this outreach program, please e-mail Ron Rindfleisch, from ALPA’s Communications Department, at Ron.Rindfleisch at alpa.org.

I will have to treat those phone calls like I treat any other telemarketing call. tell them I am on the do not call list and if they call me again then they will be hearing from the FCC. If I wanted to talk to them I would get in touch with them. Leave us alone, you bore most of us

 

[BoilerUP]

As long as I don't have to pay dues if it gets voted in then I don't really care one way or the other, as long as the former non members don't have to pay dues unless they want to.

So you are willing to ride on the coattails of an ALPA-represented pilot group advancing your pay & workrules, but are unwilling to pay the 1.95% for their services? YGBSM.

 

[airtime42]

So you are willing to ride on the coattails of an ALPA-represented pilot group advancing your pay & workrules, but are unwilling to pay the 1.95% for their services? YGBSM.

Well Said

The skywest guys will never buck up and pay their dues.

 

[SkyNation]

when I'm convinced that ALPA will improve my QOL by:

-raising my pay
-positioning my company to sustain it's current position and competitively compete for future opportunities

then I'll vote for it.

for now, I'll enjoy earning more than my counterparts at other regionals, working at a company that is thriving, and working with folks who appreciate what we have here.

the ALPA drive is well intentioned and I respect those who think that things would improve with them on property. The numbers coming in say that their message is not convincing, however, and the former ALPA folks send a stronger message.

the final straw, for me, is the hateful attitudes of so many on this board (thanks for the PM airtime! adds credence to my opinions) and our internal forums who support ALPA. I don't want that attitude officially instilled into our company culture with the inherent adversarial construct that is ALPA.

 

[FL990]

when I'm convinced that ALPA will improve my QOL by:

-raising my pay
-positioning my company to sustain it's current position and competitively compete for future opportunities

then I'll vote for it.

.

SKYNATION,

This philosophy is very flawed for two reasons.

1)The reason you get what you get is because the unionized companies faught so hard for it. If it wasn't for ALPA, wages, QOL, etc would be much different across the board for everyone.

2)The other reason why you have what you have is because they give you just enough to quell the union fire. Alpa conducted an unofficial pole and found the it was almost 50 50 for/against unionization...The company is laughing histerically at this. They have given just enough to keep the union off property...but not to much to make everyone content.

In short, you and your skywest counterparts reep the benefits of the unions, whether you have it or not. You sit and ride the coatails while talking about how it doesn't do anyone anygood...you need to wake up to reality. You may not be a union member, or pay dues, but you ARE seeing the benefits of the union...so enjoy the coatail ride.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

when I'm convinced that ALPA will improve my QOL by:

-raising my pay
-positioning my company to sustain it's current position and competitively compete for future opportunities

then I'll vote for it.

You seemed very concerned about yourself. What about the rest of us?

for now, I'll enjoy earning more than my counterparts at other regionals, working at a company that is thriving, and working with folks who appreciate what we have here.

You enjoy what you have because your pay, QOL, etc is based upon union contracts.

the ALPA drive is well intentioned and I respect those who think that things would improve with them on property. The numbers coming in say that their message is not convincing, however, and the former ALPA folks send a stronger message.

Keep in mind the World is not Skywest or St. George. National and International issues have arrived. Sure life is good now, but how long do you think it will be? Historically, no airline has been in such good times for any amount time.

Your unrepresented pilot group will have no chance against the impacts of the next 5-10 years.

Why do you think Skywest is doing well now? As a regional that feeds major airlines, is it Skywests superior management or the strings that are pulled from Elk Grove and Atlanta?

the final straw, for me, is the hateful attitudes of so many on this board (thanks for the PM airtime! adds credence to my opinions) and our internal forums who support ALPA. I don't want that attitude officially instilled into our company culture with the inherent adversarial construct that is ALPA.

You have a valid point with your last paragraph. Communication should be positive and respectful.

Your sig line of unionfacts..... If you try and find out who supports unionfacts.org you have no luck. Rick Berman runs the website. He has worked against Mother Against Drunk Dirving to raise the BAC limit, all so social drinkers can drive home after a few.....

Unionfacts.org is simply an anti union website. It is spin data so people formed biased attitudes about unions. It is hardly facts. Use your free will.

 

[SkyNation]

Use your free will.

I have, and will continue to do so. I used to work at an ALPA carrier (no, it wasn't Mesa).

 

[~~~^~~~]

If ALPA does not get on the SkyWest property, they only have ALPA to blame. Even though ALPA would be good for the SkyWest pilots in particular and the industry in general, ALPA has failed in their representational duty to regional pilots as they repeatedly sold us down the river by promoting mainline interests above other members who they owed a fair duty of representation to.

Further, ALPA should aggressively use scope and the power of their contractual negotiating to strip airlines like SkyWest of their flying. ALPA should not play nice. ALPA should play to be effective.

If ALPA would use their seat at the table to draw a line that included ALPA members, the SkyWest pilots would sign up so they too could sit at the table.

If you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow. Instead, ALPA has been trying to sell something the SkyWest pilots don't yet need.

 

[Rogue5]

If you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow.

Why do I feel like I'm watching an episode of The Sopranos?

 

[Gobi Gred]

I'd be willing to bet that HelloNewman and Skynation will be on the organizing committee for the union drive in '09. It happens every time. Some new guys come in thinking SkyWest is utopia and after awhile their eyes get opened. Next thing you know they're screaming "we need a union!". Only problem is that some other new guys have come in and taken their place and before you know it another union drive is dead. Maybe someday this idiotic cycle will cease, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[MONKEY]

Does SkyWest need protection from the company or ALPA

If you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow. Instead, ALPA has been trying to sell something the SkyWest pilots don't yet need.

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

 

[PCL_128]

Dead? Far from it. The drive is kicking into high-gear, in fact.

 

[007]

The company will screw them, it's just a matter of time. But until then there will be no union at Skywest, I am willing to bet money on it.

When the company finally does give them the shaft, there will be a lot of the "How could this happen talk" and some will blame their own peers. Namely then it will be ALPA's fault for not organizing them earlier. Some people will never get it.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Well Said

The skywest guys will never buck up and pay their dues.

Please do those of us at Skywest that have brains a favor, and quit assuming Newwoman and Skypestnation speak for all of us!!!!!!

 

[rtmcfi]

I have, and will continue to do so. I used to work at an ALPA carrier (no, it wasn't Mesa).

And which committees did you volunteer on?

 

[jayme]

I'd be willing to bet that HelloNewman and Skynation will be on the organizing committee for the union drive in '09. It happens every time. Some new guys come in thinking SkyWest is utopia and after awhile their eyes get opened. Next thing you know they're screaming "we need a union!". Only problem is that some other new guys have come in and taken their place and before you know it another union drive is dead. Maybe someday this idiotic cycle will cease, but I'm not holding my breath.

The problem is that management does this stuff so insidiously that there really isn't a "wakeup call". It happens slowly, and you have to pay attention to notice it.

Bucket system, taking away newhire pay arbitrarily (I got fkd on this one) after telling interviewees that they WILL be paid in training, new leg cancellation pay policy, required jumpseat to training, PBS (costs us money with NOTHING in return), forced flying... that's all I can think of right now.

Our pay has also slowly slid from near the top of the industry to at or below average. Again, it was slow and insidious. We have a great 50 seat rate, especially when you add in the bonus, but as we slowly added 70 and now 90 seat airplanes, we are now being paid below standard.

 

[FL990]

The company will screw them, it's just a matter of time. But until then there will be no union at Skywest, I am willing to bet money on it.

.

THEY ALREADY DID!! The 70 seat pay that was supposed to take affect never went into effect. Now they have some piddlely override that, again, was just enough to put out the fire. (and the funny thing is, they are greatful for it).

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

Don't confuse my opinion with what ALPA does. Especially when in my opinion ALPA is not doing what they should be doing.

My arguement is that if ALPA was being effective, there would not be so much confusion at SkyWest about whether they needed to be in ALPA.

As it turns out, ALPA is effective on a small scale with local safety, scheduling and pilot representational matters - but the SkyWest pilots don't see this because they don't work for an ALPA carrier and their management plays nice for the most part.

The SkyWest pilots do see the larger picture and they see that they are benefitting from the crisis of leadership at ALPA National.

When ALPA publicly valued their sale of small jet flying from the Delta property at $150 million dollars and works with management to transfer this flying out to the lowest bidder - what are industry observers supposed to think?

No wonder SkyWest pilots don't see the need....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

Yet, no one wants to talk about the future. Sure all is well NOW at Skywest. But if you look at the historical trend, sooner or later pilots need representation....

Anyone care to address this?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fins-

If you want to envoke positive change you have to use positive methods.!!!