Breakthrough at Comair?

[spinproof]

No, I've read that before. Nothing in there leads me to believe that he's in bed with management as the previous poster suggested.

Do you still stand by this quote? "I haven't seen anything from JC that would lead me to believe that he is doing anything other than what he feels is in the best interests of his pilot group."

If you do then I would suggest you are exactly the kind of pilot that deserves what he will do to you!!!!!!
__________________

 

[PCL_128]

Do you still stand by this quote? "I haven't seen anything from JC that would lead me to believe that he is doing anything other than what he feels is in the best interests of his pilot group."

If you do then I would suggest you are exactly the kind of pilot that deserves what he will do to you!!!!!! I do not suffer fools!!!
__________________

It's been a couple of months since I read the transcript, but I don't recall anything that would lead me to believe that JC is acting against the best interests of his pilot group. Could you possibly cite something specific?

 

[FDJ2]

Comair made money this past quarter did they not (50Mil) ? so someone tell me why the ************************* do they need concessions.
uote]

Because the bankruptcy laws and the RLA do not favor labor. These laws are written by Congress. If you want to make a change you have to start supporting candidates that respect collective bargaining and collective bargaining agreements and support labor issues, otherwise you'll get more of the same. You might also want to start supporting a political action committee that lobbies congress on behalf of labor and supports candidates that are sensitive towards the issues of organized labor. Support ALPA-PAC.

 

[FDJ2]

No, I've read that before. Nothing in there leads me to believe that he's in bed with management as the previous poster suggested.

Spin's just upset that JC didn't regurgitate the RJDC rhetoric he hoped for. JC's sworn testimony and that of the others is a dagger in the heart of the trumped up RJDC claims.

 

[spinproof]

Spin's just upset that JC didn't regurgitate the RJDC rhetoric he hoped for. JC's sworn testimony and that of the others is a dagger in the heart of the trumped up RJDC claims.

Not at all. If you are consistant, as you, in your views I have no problem. This is not the case. He worked dilligently behind the scenes to futher the RJDC cause. Recruiting those that are there now in the process.Then when it became politically expediate he flipped!

He is, in my opinion, the worst kind of back stabbing self aggrandizing weasel. He uses he office to further his own game and will do so until the lemmings at Comair see him for what he has always been.

 

[737 Pylt]

He is, in my opinion, the worst kind of back stabbing self aggrandizing weasel. He uses he office to further his own game and will do so until the lemmings at Comair see him for what he has always been.

At least we can agree on that!

737

 

[PCL_128]

Not at all. If you are consistant, as you, in your views I have no problem. This is not the case. He worked dilligently behind the scenes to futher the RJDC cause. Recruiting those that are there now in the process.Then when it became politically expediate he flipped!

So, you're a "stay the course" kind of guy, huh? Once you've chosen a position you think you should stick with it no matter what new evidence comes to light? Sorry, sounds pretty ridiculous to me. According to his testimony, JC took part in some things a few years ago that he now thinks weren't the best way to go. Is that really a character flaw? Seems to me that it makes him a smart guy. He reevaluated his position when new facts came to light. I wish more people were like that.

 

[spinproof]

So, you're a "stay the course" kind of guy, huh? Once you've chosen a position you think you should stick with it no matter what new evidence comes to light? Sorry, sounds pretty ridiculous to me. According to his testimony, JC took part in some things a few years ago that he now thinks weren't the best way to go. Is that really a character flaw? Seems to me that it makes him a smart guy. He reevaluated his position when new facts came to light. I wish more people were like that.

Pathetic. Well if anyone questions why this guy can stay in power all you have to do is read the above.

What did JC learn that he didn't already know? How "democracy works at ALPA"..?

If JC did have an "Epiphany" then why didn't he share it with your pilot group???? Instead of going behind closed doors and testifying to one thing while leading people to think otherwise.

How can you so cavalierly dismiss his behavior? Whats in it for you?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

How can you so cavalierly dismiss his behavior? Whats in it for you?

A warm cozy feeling that he's a true blue unionist and a loyal follower of the ALPA doctrine "Never admit a screwup"

I learned after my experiences within ALPA, most pilots like the taste of sand, and thats why they keep their heads buried in it.

 

[PCL_128]

What did JC learn that he didn't already know? How "democracy works at ALPA"..?

I certainly don't speak for JC. I can only refer you to his testimony. He makes it quite clear that after spending time on the Executive Council and working within ALPA, he realized that democracy really does work within the Association. He learned that working within the system is preferable to crazy lawsuits. That doesn't mean that ALPA doesn't have problems (it certainly does), but fixing those problems is best done through internal controls rather than the courts.

If JC did have an "Epiphany" then why didn't he share it with your pilot group???? Instead of going behind closed doors and testifying to one thing while leading people to think otherwise.

First, it's not "my" pilot group. I work at Pinnacle, not Comair. Second, he never publicly led anyone to believe that he was an RJDC supporter. As you said yourself, that alleged support was behind closed doors. He was never an "open" supporter of the RJDC.

How can you so cavalierly dismiss his behavior? Whats in it for you?

Nothing's in it for me. I just want people to stop attacking their own union and start attacking the people that are trying to divide us: management. It would seem that management is winning in their divide-and-conquer campaign.

 

[HelloNewman]

You might also want to start supporting a political action committee that lobbies congress on behalf of labor and supports candidates that are sensitive towards the issues of organized labor. Support ALPA-PAC.

So you have to pay dues for ALPA just to get on the property. Then if you want them to really help you then you should donate to the PAC. Oh then if you happen to have to merge with another airline ALPA won't represent you like your paying them to so you have to open your wallet and be forced to pay a merger fund. Oh if someone else needs to strike then you are asked to pay into a strike fund. Jesus do these people ever stop asking for money? By the time you pay all these little fees it could very will nullify any benefit that they ever provided!! People at skywest must be educated on the things ALPA will not tell you about

 

[spinproof]

I certainly don't speak for JC. I can only refer you to his testimony. He makes it quite clear that after spending time on the Executive Council and working within ALPA, he realized that democracy really does work within the Association. He learned that working within the system is preferable to crazy lawsuits. That doesn't mean that ALPA doesn't have problems (it certainly does), but fixing those problems is best done through internal controls rather than the courts.



First, it's not "my" pilot group. I work at Pinnacle, not Comair. Second, he never publicly led anyone to believe that he was an RJDC supporter. As you said yourself, that alleged support was behind closed doors. He was never an "open" supporter of the RJDC.



Nothing's in it for me. I just want people to stop attacking their own union and start attacking the people that are trying to divide us: management. It would seem that management is winning in their divide-and-conquer campaign.

How silly of me I didn't put the PCL 128 and 1900 time together....anyway your pollyanish view of what ALPA may or may not do to/for any pilot group has everything to do with whats in it for ALPA. It has nothing to do with whats right for that pilot group.

JC and CT changed their stance on the RJDC because of what was in it for them! The Comair pilot group will visit this just as soon as this latest little matter is over.

 

[737 Pylt]

JC and CT changed their stance on the RJDC because of what was in it for them! The Comair pilot group will visit this just as soon as this latest little matter is over.

They better hope they're not as successful as the first time around......
What's the use, the rjdc girls are laughable, and it makes for great jokes at their expense!
Speaking of expense, how's the multi million $$ lawsuit going???
You guys still sending those checks to Haber?

737

 

[spinproof]

They better hope they're not as successful as the first time around......
What's the use, the rjdc girls are laughable, and it makes for great jokes at their expense!
Speaking of expense, how's the multi million $$ lawsuit going???
You guys still sending those checks to Haber?

737

Game still on money still pouring in!

 

[N2264J]

He [JC] makes it quite clear that after spending time on the Executive Council and working within ALPA, he realized that democracy really does work within the Association. He learned that working within the system is preferable to crazy lawsuits. That doesn't mean that ALPA doesn't have problems (it certainly does), but fixing those problems is best done through internal controls rather than the courts.

I'm having a real hard time trying to understand what your position is. On the one hand, you demagogue JC for "holding the furloughees hostage," a totally inappropriate characterization. On the other, you praise him for trying to work within the system to fix problems.​

The DMEC could have given something up out of there own contract to offset the training costs Comair would incur but they didn't. Were they holding their own furloughees hostage?

So if the Comair pilots were willing to give something up out of their own contract to buy a change in company policy that allowed Delta furloughees to work here without resigning their number, wouldn't it follow that they'd expect something in return from the Delta MEC? Something like Brand Scope which was trumpeted by the Executive Board as the fix for the race to the bottom?​

Here's what Jason Ambrosi, a Status Representative on the Delta MEC, said under oath about internal union bargaining:​

Ambrosi: It would also benefit a pilot at a mainline carrier because again, as a union member, nothing is going to be for free. If we were going help these guys out and say here, you could come to Delta, then it would be something that we could hopefully get in return for that, be it maybe furlough protection or some kind of furlough protection. Again, it was in its infancy so we didn't explore those opportunities.

Haber: Possibly a flow-down agreement?

Ambrosi: Exactly.

By the way, how's that Brand Scope working out for ya over there at Northwest?​

 

[PCL_128]

I'm having a real hard time trying to understand what your position is. On the one hand, you demagogue JC for "holding the furloughees hostage," a totally inappropriate characterization. On the other, you praise him for trying to work within the system to fix problems.​

I think I've been pretty clear on that. Overall, JC does an excellent job and is a great trade-unionist. However, in this one instance, I feel that JC made a big mistake and shouldn't have held the furloughs of fellow ALPA members as hostages. I can't condemn a man for one bad move when the vast majority of the work he does is of great benefit to the Association and the profession.​

The DMEC could have given something up out of there own contract to offset the training costs Comair would incur but they didn't. Were they holding their own furloughees hostage?

No one had to "give up" anything. The only thing that DALPA wanted was for the CMR MEC to request a waiver from management. No request was ever made of the CMR pilots to "give up" anything in their agreement to make it happen.​

By the way, how's that Brand Scope working out for ya over there at Northwest?

I'm doing just fine, thanks.

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm having a real hard time trying to understand what your position is. On the one hand, you demagogue JC for "holding the furloughees hostage," a totally inappropriate characterization. On the other, you praise him for trying to work within the system to fix problems.​

Not surprising, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it!​

The DMEC could have given something up out of there own contract to offset the training costs Comair would incur but they didn't. Were they holding their own furloughees hostage?

Yes!
So, by NO cost to the cmr MEC or CMR management to put furloughees at the BOTTOM of your seniority list, you wanted to relax scope so you could "get yours." How rjdc'ish of you!​

So if the Comair pilots were willing to give something up out of their own contract to buy a change in company policy that allowed Delta furloughees to work here without resigning their number, wouldn't it follow that they'd expect something in return from the Delta MEC? Something like Brand Scope which was trumpeted by the Executive Board as the fix for the race to the bottom?

You're reaching, but the spin machine is working in full effect as usual! Nice try junior!​

Here's what Jason Ambrosi, a Status Representative on the Delta MEC, said under oath about internal union bargaining:

Even better, here's what the cmr MEC said under oath​

1. ALPA has not discriminated against the the CMR pilots.
2. DAL scope is not a threat to the interests and collective bargaining power of ASA and CMR.
3. There is no irreconcilable conflict of interest due to ALPA dual obligation to both the Delta pilots and the CMR pilots.
4. MEC's bargain for their own pilots and set their own bargaining strategies.
5. Delta ALPA has the right to bargain for themselves within the guidelines of the ALPA administrative policy manual.
6. It would be just as inappropriate for a CMR pilot to enter univited in Delta pilot negotiations as it would be for a Delta pilot to enter uninvited in CMR pilot negotiations.
7. The PID was improper and uncalled for and if the CMR MEC knew then what they know now they would not have filed it.
8. The PID was written by some guy named Dan, not the CMR MEC Chairman.

By the way, how's that Brand Scope working out for ya over there at Northwest?

Apparently MUCH better than your petty little lawsuit!
Hey, did you get your check for $100,000,000 yet??

737

 

[N2264J]

No one had to "give up" anything. The only thing that DALPA wanted was for the CMR MEC to request a waiver from management. No request was ever made of the CMR pilots to "give up" anything in their agreement to make it happen.

It's naive to suggest that this was all about blowing smoke up somebody's skirt.

Look, to make this happen on any kind of scale of more than a few, some pilot group would have to pay something to offset the training costs of putting pilots, who had no intention of staying here, through a syllabus and training their replacements when they leave. It's a known double training hit for the company. That's why managments like Comair and Alaska have that policy in the first place.

As a status rep, you must understand that.

 

[spinproof]

It's naive to suggest that this was all about blowing smoke up somebody's skirt.......

As a status rep, you must understand that.

Only if and when it suits his position in an argument.

 

[N2264J]

Not surprising, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it...You're reaching, but the spin machine is working in full effect as usual! Nice try junior!

Did Delta make you resign your last seniority number during indoc?

We all know I'm an ignorant dick already so a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

 

[PCL_128]

It's naive to suggest that this was all about blowing smoke up somebody's skirt.

Look, to make this happen on any kind of scale of more than a few, some pilot group would have to pay something to offset the training costs of putting pilots, who had no intention of staying here, through a syllabus and training their replacements when they leave. It's a known double training hit for the company. That's why managments like Comair and Alaska have that policy in the first place.

As a status rep, you must understand that.

You can call it "naive" all you want, but the facts are the facts. Captain Buergey asked for nothing more than for the CMR MEC to have a talk with management and request preferential hiring of DAL pilots without having to resign their DAL numbers. He requested no bargaining, no concessions, nothing else. Just a simple request of Comair management.

Why do we have to keep debating this? The facts are known on this case, and they have been for quite some time. Just admit that it was a stupid thing to do, and your fellow ALPA pilots deserved better.

 

[737 Pylt]

Did Delta make you resign your last seniority number during indoc?

NOPE!

We all know I'm an ignorant dick already so a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

I'm glad we can both agree on that!

737

Why do we have to keep debating this? The facts are known on this case, and they have been for quite some time. Just admit that it was a stupid thing to do, and your fellow ALPA pilots deserved better.

Because they don't know any better, and they are too stupid to see otherwise! They are the same group who is led to believe that Dan Ford is going to make them all $$millionaires and 777 captains......All the while, he and his lawyer are profiting all the way to the bank!

737

 

[Dirt Doctor]

See ya

I have decided the best course of action is to get out. But I will do my best to create havock before I leave. I hope Delta get's what it deserves.

"Good Goes Down!!!!!"

 

[N2264J]

NOPE!

It must be a relatively new policy. Apparently, they made Jason Ambrosi resign his number.

Q When you were hired by Delta, did you retain your ASA seniority number?
A I did not.
Q You had to resign from ASA?
A Yes, I resigned, correct.

So when pilots are hired there this year, can they expect the DMEC to champion changing Delta's policy so they can keep their previous number?​

They might have a bad day in training and need that number to fall back on.​

 

[cfd130]

I have decided the best course of action is to get out. But I will do my best to create havock before I leave. I hope Delta get's what it deserves.

"Good Goes Down!!!!!"

How nice of you to think about all your fellow employees who are staying-Maybe you could just leave and take your attitude with you to your next place that is so priviledged to hire you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[737 Pylt]

It must be a relatively new policy. Apparently, they made Jason Ambrosi resign his number.

Q When you were hired by Delta, did you retain your ASA seniority number?
A I did not.
Q You had to resign from ASA?
A Yes, I resigned, correct.

I don't know Jason, and can't speak for him. Have you referred him to Haber, maybe he can help, after all, he's done so well for your cause:laugh: !

So when pilots are hired there this year, can they expect the DMEC to champion changing Delta's policy so they can keep their previous number?

I have no idea what the new hire policy will be, because its been 5 1/2 years since a "new hire" has been on the property. But you already knew that didn't you? Or are you truly that stupid?​

They might have a bad day in training and need that number to fall back on.

Sounds like you've been down that road before. If I were you, being a cmr pilot, I wouldn't even bother to try!

737