Delta shocks wall street...

[800Dog]

Too Funny!

C2k, take a look at it. Downward pressure on wages and no retirement from the likes of you certainly have not helped! EMB-190, don't get me started. Go Blue!!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

I agree with you BBB. It is truly amazing how this continues in the airline industry. I think it all comes down to responsibility. A business should have to pay for services rendered, and not be able to get out of that responsibility.

So the BK laws only pertain to the Airline industry? What are your views on personal BK? Do you think those people should be shot if they can't pay the bills? Let's return to the wild wild west while we are at it......Thanks Fartknocker....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

C2k, take a look at it. Downward pressure on wages and no retirement from the likes of you certainly have not helped! EMB-190, don't get me started. Go Blue!!!!!!

Maybe they will get the transcon turns someday that they have always wanted too!! That will be great for everybody!!! Yeah!! Go BLUE!!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Take it a step further. If the bankruptcy laws were not as they are, maybe Delta would have never been in this position. How many bankrupt airlines has Delta had to compete with since deregulation? What about airlines who took ATSB loans? Delta is just playing the game that so many have before them. Not saying its right but, it is what it is.

I was going to take it a step further but I slipped off my soap box.

You make great points.

BBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I think it all comes down to responsibility. A business should have to pay for services rendered, and not be able to get out of that responsibility.

I agree. If the above were so, then all the Delta employees (and other airlines/industries as well) would have intact and fully funded pensions instead of the current scraps which will no doubt end up being funded by Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer when the inevitable PBGC BANKRUPTCY occurs. Ironic, isn't it. The obligation buck just keeps getting passed (like our national debt) until someone is finally forced to pay it. That SOMEONE is always the lowly taxpayer because he is most vulnerable and least represented by the power brokers. I feel sorry for the poor and middle class of this country that are continually being squeezed. The bankruptcy laws really need to be further overhauled (I recognize the recent change.)

BBB

 

[warbirdfinder]

Publishers wrote:

Too, nobody sees that $22 billion. It came out of someone somewhere, someone else's Christmas bonus, someone else laid off, someone else not going on vacation, someone else stressing out they cannot meet payroll this week, someone else,,,,,, you get the idea.

No truer words are spoken. The company who files for bankruptcy is so proud of its so called cost savings by no paying money owed suppliers, hotels, freight forwarders, parts suppliers, uniform companies, rental cars, caterers, limo companies, the list goes on and on. Many are small business that now cannot make payroll; that have to refinance; that will layoff or will not expand or worse yet, go out of business.
Management then lets out press releases on the fantastic job they have done in their "cost cutting". What they have done amounts to robbery, theft pure and simple. Management essentially states; we got what we wanted from you, but we are not going to pay for those goods and services.
And the pensions that are not paid. Promises made over a lifetime to those who worked so hard for the company are now broken without the slightest bit of guilt or moral conscience.
The people who do these things are nothing but bottom feeding scum, who themselves will come out of bankruptcy with millions lining their pockets.

 

[fartknocker]

So the BK laws only pertain to the Airline industry? What are your views on personal BK? Do you think those people should be shot if they can't pay the bills? Let's return to the wild wild west while we are at it......Thanks Fartknocker....


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think that bankruptcy is used too often to get people out of trouble who wouldn't be there in the first place if they had a little responsibility. Businesses and individuals alike use the laws too often in my opinion. I have a problem with people who will buy things on credit and not even worry about paying for it because "they can always file for bankruptcy protection".

In my opinion, that is irresponsible.

 

[800Dog]

I agree. If the above were so, then all the Delta employees (and other airlines/industries as well) would have intact and fully funded pensions instead of the current scraps which will no doubt end up being funded by Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer when the inevitable PBGC BANKRUPTCY occurs. Ironic, isn't it. The obligation buck just keeps getting passed (like our national debt) until someone is finally forced to pay it. That SOMEONE is always the lowly taxpayer because he is most vulnerable and least represented by the power brokers. I feel sorry for the poor and middle class of this country that are continually being squeezed. The bankruptcy laws really need to be further overhauled (I recognize the recent change.)

BBB

Actually, you might be wrong. If Delta or the other bankrupt carriers that preceded Delta had to pay those obligations, some would have liquidated and there would be no pensions and tens of thousands out of work which means many collecting unemployment at the taxpayers expense. Food for thought.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Actually, you might be wrong. If Delta or the other bankrupt carriers that preceded Delta had to pay those obligations, some would have liquidated and there would be no pensions and tens of thousands out of work which means many collecting unemployment at the taxpayers expense. Food for thought.

I don't agree with mandatory unemployment "insurance" either. I believe (GASP! ) in personal responsibility. Part of being responsible is saving money and purchasing appropriate insurance (loss of license, unemployment, etc... whatever each individual deems appropriate to his personal life/financial situation.) If you find yourself unemployed, I'm still scratching my head how it's now MY responsibility to PAY YOU (via unemployment). :smash:

BBB <--- scratching his head at a lot of things in this world...

 

[Remington]

So the BK laws only pertain to the Airline industry? What are your views on personal BK? Do you think those people should be shot if they can't pay the bills? Let's return to the wild wild west while we are at it......Thanks Fartknocker....


Bye Bye--General Lee

The wild west need not return, but there should be some accountability here. If someone is too stupid or irresponsible or unable to run a business whether it be their own finances or they hang a shingle somewhere, they should not be in business. So it's okay to loose $22B?? Delta will not make that much money in the next 100 years. They are upside down in thier own operation and are a burden on society and their vendors. They ONLY lost millions again. LOL.

 

[Vne]

So the BK laws only pertain to the Airline industry? What are your views on personal BK? Do you think those people should be shot if they can't pay the bills? Let's return to the wild wild west while we are at it......Thanks Fartknocker....

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

It's a riot, isn't it? This industries employees only undertand the here and now, and could give a rat's arz about the health of the company. You think if reason had raised it's ugly head 10 years ago that DL would be in this position today. They'll all climb back on the floating log like a bunch of insects that think they are going to save themselves while they head for Niagara Falls.

Someday, somewhere an airline will emerge where their employees understand the long term consequences of instant gratification.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

imp:​

Lowecur... I agree with your premise. Though I chuckled at the insect metaphor and would probably have expressed the sentiment differently, it is apt. DAL, with $22 BILLION in debt, bankrupt, pensions and wages raped, labor agreement in tatters, workforce demoralized... why it's every pilot's current dream employer!

I cannot, with a straight face, encourage any youth to pursue aviation as a CAREER. Aviation, like medicine and so many other careers, has unfortunately seen its glory days come and go. I feel extremely fortunate to not have a dog running in this race, though the effects are still felt on our side, albeit to a much lesser extent.

BBB

 

[737 Pylt]

delta's awesome mamgement team was the real reference, but if you want an apology just hold you breath.

You should save yours, you'll need it later for your inflatable date!

Funny how they rally the employees to keep the current management in power. Me thinks USair is the way to go.

The only thing funny is you thinking, moron! Just what the world needs, another rj puke who thinks he/she knows it all. Stick with swinging the gear for your captain junior, your in way over your head!

737

 

[General Lee]

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

Wow, some pent up anger here. Wow. I never said I thought my airline would NEVER go into BK. And, I don't remember saying that about yours, since there would be a lot of job losses, but if you say so.... I am so glad you got your revenge. Now we both don't have a pension. Great. Feel better now you big baby??


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

The wild west need not return, but there should be some accountability here. If someone is too stupid or irresponsible or unable to run a business whether it be their own finances or they hang a shingle somewhere, they should not be in business. So it's okay to loose $22B?? Delta will not make that much money in the next 100 years. They are upside down in thier own operation and are a burden on society and their vendors. They ONLY lost millions again. LOL.

And so was every other bankrupt airline who preceded Delta. Had they not been allowed to abuse the process, Delta might not find itself in bankruptcy. Maybe CAL, USAir, AmWest, UAL, NWA and the list goes on should no longer be in business!

 

[General Lee]

I think AWA went BK twice, and USAir did too. And they both used ATSB loans, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

"Cost savings..." :laugh: I don't have a dog in this race and this is not meant as a criticism of any DAL employees... but I can't help but wonder how all the suppliers, vendors, manufacturers, contractors, investors, etc... feel knowing Delta will renege on about $15 BILLION in obligations (debt) owed to them.

It's an amazing world where you can rack up approximately $22 BILLION in debt and simply walk away from 2/3's of it through a bankruptcy filing. That's a heck of a lot of money that suppliers will not be paid for services rendered, parts supplied, aircraft repaired, catered, fueled, etc... All of these services were performed in good faith with an expectation of payment. So, I chuckle when I read about Delta's "cost savings" (in other words... "we're simply not going to pay that huge sum of money to all those legitimate companies that trusted us and supplied us with the essentials to keep our airline operating... for if we did we'd be out of business!")

Forgive me, but I just don't believe any company ought to be able to do that. Heck, the same can be said for the Delta employees and the loss of their pensions. That pension money was earned and it should have to be set aside and paid out. Here again, if Delta actually had to pay its obligations it would be out of business.

Tell me again why so many pilots are eager to work for Delta now that they've announced hiring?

BBB

BBB:
Hypothetical question for you......
Say you are trying to refinance your mortgage rate on your house, your current rate is 9.5%. You get a better deal from a different bank at say 5%, would you refinance it? Of course you would, thus saving yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of the (30 yr) loan. Are you cheating your current lender out of his money?
DL has billions of dollars in debt. All accured by past inept management (Leo Mullin), and has shed some of its double digit interest rates down to very fair interest rates, and thus, as you put it, walking away from alot of their debt. Is it fair? Probably not, is it right, probably not!
US Air did it, UAL did it 2 x's, so did AWA 2 x's, and CAL!
What about the airlines that took the ATSB loan from the gov't?
You make some valid points, I'm just playing devils advocate!

737

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

You're full of it. Why would DL pilots be at a local airport where you are flight instructing. Save your tough guy talk for the mall chicks, I'm sure they dig it!

737

 

[Remington]

And so was every other bankrupt airline who preceded Delta. Had they not been allowed to abuse the process, Delta might not find itself in bankruptcy. Maybe CAL, USAir, AmWest, UAL, NWA and the list goes on should no longer be in business!

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

 

[kc81900]

Let's see....and you are in an rj? Is that right?
Uh huh...

And you are in a A320 at rj pay rates??? Uh Huh ... don't throw stones until you fortify your own house

 

[Remington]

You should save yours, you'll need it later for your inflatable date!



The only thing funny is you thinking, moron! Just what the world needs, another rj puke who thinks he/she knows it all. Stick with swinging the gear for your captain junior, your in way over your head!

737

Old man river,

Be careful this winter, we dont want people like you slipping on the ice and breaking your hip. The "RJ pukes" will be invading your cockpit very, very soon. Comming to a cockpit near you, "RJ Puke Invasion." Try to befriend these folks, they might have some "oldies" on their Ipod for you to listen to.