Delta shocks wall street...

[Vne]

So the BK laws only pertain to the Airline industry? What are your views on personal BK? Do you think those people should be shot if they can't pay the bills? Let's return to the wild wild west while we are at it......Thanks Fartknocker....

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

It's a riot, isn't it? This industries employees only undertand the here and now, and could give a rat's arz about the health of the company. You think if reason had raised it's ugly head 10 years ago that DL would be in this position today. They'll all climb back on the floating log like a bunch of insects that think they are going to save themselves while they head for Niagara Falls.

Someday, somewhere an airline will emerge where their employees understand the long term consequences of instant gratification.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

imp:​

Lowecur... I agree with your premise. Though I chuckled at the insect metaphor and would probably have expressed the sentiment differently, it is apt. DAL, with $22 BILLION in debt, bankrupt, pensions and wages raped, labor agreement in tatters, workforce demoralized... why it's every pilot's current dream employer!

I cannot, with a straight face, encourage any youth to pursue aviation as a CAREER. Aviation, like medicine and so many other careers, has unfortunately seen its glory days come and go. I feel extremely fortunate to not have a dog running in this race, though the effects are still felt on our side, albeit to a much lesser extent.

BBB

 

[737 Pylt]

delta's awesome mamgement team was the real reference, but if you want an apology just hold you breath.

You should save yours, you'll need it later for your inflatable date!

Funny how they rally the employees to keep the current management in power. Me thinks USair is the way to go.

The only thing funny is you thinking, moron! Just what the world needs, another rj puke who thinks he/she knows it all. Stick with swinging the gear for your captain junior, your in way over your head!

737

 

[General Lee]

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

Wow, some pent up anger here. Wow. I never said I thought my airline would NEVER go into BK. And, I don't remember saying that about yours, since there would be a lot of job losses, but if you say so.... I am so glad you got your revenge. Now we both don't have a pension. Great. Feel better now you big baby??


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

The wild west need not return, but there should be some accountability here. If someone is too stupid or irresponsible or unable to run a business whether it be their own finances or they hang a shingle somewhere, they should not be in business. So it's okay to loose $22B?? Delta will not make that much money in the next 100 years. They are upside down in thier own operation and are a burden on society and their vendors. They ONLY lost millions again. LOL.

And so was every other bankrupt airline who preceded Delta. Had they not been allowed to abuse the process, Delta might not find itself in bankruptcy. Maybe CAL, USAir, AmWest, UAL, NWA and the list goes on should no longer be in business!

 

[General Lee]

I think AWA went BK twice, and USAir did too. And they both used ATSB loans, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

"Cost savings..." :laugh: I don't have a dog in this race and this is not meant as a criticism of any DAL employees... but I can't help but wonder how all the suppliers, vendors, manufacturers, contractors, investors, etc... feel knowing Delta will renege on about $15 BILLION in obligations (debt) owed to them.

It's an amazing world where you can rack up approximately $22 BILLION in debt and simply walk away from 2/3's of it through a bankruptcy filing. That's a heck of a lot of money that suppliers will not be paid for services rendered, parts supplied, aircraft repaired, catered, fueled, etc... All of these services were performed in good faith with an expectation of payment. So, I chuckle when I read about Delta's "cost savings" (in other words... "we're simply not going to pay that huge sum of money to all those legitimate companies that trusted us and supplied us with the essentials to keep our airline operating... for if we did we'd be out of business!")

Forgive me, but I just don't believe any company ought to be able to do that. Heck, the same can be said for the Delta employees and the loss of their pensions. That pension money was earned and it should have to be set aside and paid out. Here again, if Delta actually had to pay its obligations it would be out of business.

Tell me again why so many pilots are eager to work for Delta now that they've announced hiring?

BBB

BBB:
Hypothetical question for you......
Say you are trying to refinance your mortgage rate on your house, your current rate is 9.5%. You get a better deal from a different bank at say 5%, would you refinance it? Of course you would, thus saving yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of the (30 yr) loan. Are you cheating your current lender out of his money?
DL has billions of dollars in debt. All accured by past inept management (Leo Mullin), and has shed some of its double digit interest rates down to very fair interest rates, and thus, as you put it, walking away from alot of their debt. Is it fair? Probably not, is it right, probably not!
US Air did it, UAL did it 2 x's, so did AWA 2 x's, and CAL!
What about the airlines that took the ATSB loan from the gov't?
You make some valid points, I'm just playing devils advocate!

737

GL

If I had a dollar for every time a Delta pilot told me when my company was in BK that " you guys should do everybody a favor and go out of business" I wouldn't give a sh!t about the pension I lost....
Shoes on the other foot and now "every things right in the universe" hypocrite.

You're full of it. Why would DL pilots be at a local airport where you are flight instructing. Save your tough guy talk for the mall chicks, I'm sure they dig it!

737

 

[Remington]

And so was every other bankrupt airline who preceded Delta. Had they not been allowed to abuse the process, Delta might not find itself in bankruptcy. Maybe CAL, USAir, AmWest, UAL, NWA and the list goes on should no longer be in business!

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

 

[kc81900]

Let's see....and you are in an rj? Is that right?
Uh huh...

And you are in a A320 at rj pay rates??? Uh Huh ... don't throw stones until you fortify your own house

 

[Remington]

You should save yours, you'll need it later for your inflatable date!



The only thing funny is you thinking, moron! Just what the world needs, another rj puke who thinks he/she knows it all. Stick with swinging the gear for your captain junior, your in way over your head!

737

Old man river,

Be careful this winter, we dont want people like you slipping on the ice and breaking your hip. The "RJ pukes" will be invading your cockpit very, very soon. Comming to a cockpit near you, "RJ Puke Invasion." Try to befriend these folks, they might have some "oldies" on their Ipod for you to listen to.

 

[800Dog]

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

What? Two years of community college I presume.

 

[General Lee]

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

Great argument.......We didn't WANT to go BK, but the process is there, and some have used it TWICE. I wouldn't want anyone to go through this process, but the American Way allows people to falter, and then pick themselves back up. If you want cut throat, move to Africa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

So, without bankruptcy protection would people be in favor of 80,000 people losing their jobs? Is that preferrable?

Delta will emerge stronger from this process and 80,000 or so people will have their jobs (and local governments will have their tax revenues). If you want to blame people and hold people accountable, you should target Leo and his former management cronies - they should be held accountable for their incredibly illogical management decisions... How many billions of dollars did Leo waste on a stock buyback right before/after 9/11? $2-3 billion in cash? Who screwed up the fuel hedging situation? Are these people being sued for their stupidity???? What about their highly-paid McKinsey consultants and accounting firms? Who has sued them for malpractice???? Don't blame the pilots for these problems...

 

[ironspud]

You and Parker are the only ones who think USAir is the way to go. According to Oberstar, the Chairman of the Transportation committee, he doesn't know anyone in Congress who is in favor of this takeover. And, he said he would lean on the DOJ if needed. Regardless, the creditor committee will eventually vote in our favor. Sorry. About the loss, yeah it happened, and it was better than last year's. It says it all in the news story.

Bye Bye--General Lee

The "Oberstar arguement" is so old it smells. Find a new one.

 

[Remington]

So, without bankruptcy protection would people be in favor of 80,000 people losing their jobs? Is that preferrable?

Delta will emerge stronger from this process and 80,000 or so people will have their jobs (and local governments will have their tax revenues). If you want to blame people and hold people accountable, you should target Leo and his former management cronies - they should be held accountable for their incredibly illogical management decisions... How many billions of dollars did Leo waste on a stock buyback right before/after 9/11? $2-3 billion in cash? Who screwed up the fuel hedging situation? Are these people being sued for their stupidity???? What about their highly-paid McKinsey consultants and accounting firms? Who has sued them for malpractice???? Don't blame the pilots for these problems...

I never said the pilots are to blame. I think at an entirely overpriced pilot group contributed to more problems post 911. So an employer with 80000 employees should have pitty taken on them? I am sure most would get a new job. They would not be jobless forever. Unemployment runs out after 6 months. Minimal tax burden for us hardworking Americans. When folks get hired at DAL do they sign a contract which guarantees them employment for the rest of their lives? Didn't think so.
What happend to the vendors who yall screwed? Did they go out of business? Did those families declare bankruptcy. Or are their business too small to worry about. Should SWA and AA get a 2 Mississippi head-start on any decision making in the industry since they struggled thru their hardships and came out the back end. Just looking for apples and apples here. Delta, and all airlines, should not be immune to economic ups and downs. Someday all the airlines that are in business today will be history. When, is the only answer that nobody knows. I am not wishing ill-will on anyone, but I believe that the arrogance of the DAL, AAA, and UAL pilot group contributed to what happend after 911. We are all bluecollar workers who happen to move airplanes. It's not rocket surgery. We are all replaceable. There are tons of 25yr/old regional pilots with more hightech aviation experience than most of us and are just as capable as moving a 777 across the pond as a 59 year old.