JB 190 Raise

[Blue Dude]

I'm not starving right now.

Glad to hear that your personal career goals have been met so easily. Considering that I've been taking continuous pay cuts for 5 yrs, with no end in sight, I may just shoot a little higher than that.

 

[zonker]

If there are those here on board who don't like it, then, the door is open-- LEAVE, and then, maybe then, when enough pilots cross the threshold, we just might see some more in terms compensation and benefits...

Ya, you owe me.

Put me on your Christmas card list.

 

[Uniform Shop]

$48- 190 fo JetBlue yr 1

$29.97- 777 fo CAL yr 1 (Jan slots to newhires)

Not bad JetBlue. Not Bad.

2 year 777 = 73.07
3rd year 777 = 87.66
4th year 777 = 99.17
5 year 777 = 109.01
6th year 777 = 118.99
7th year 777 = 121.69
Ends up at 131.80 at year 12

Add 12.5% B fund to that. They didn't think the 777 would be going to newhires. It's still not great but I think it's a little better then you are making it out to be. First year pay sucks but it does get better.

 

[instructordude]

2 year 777 = 73.07
3rd year 777 = 87.66
4th year 777 = 99.17
5 year 777 = 109.01
6th year 777 = 118.99
7th year 777 = 121.69
Ends up at 131.80 at year 12

Add 12.5% B fund to that. They didn't think the 777 would be going to newhires. It's still not great but I think it's a little better then you are making it out to be. First year pay sucks but it does get better.

CAL at 29 per hour. That's liveable for a guy like me but I wonder how others make it work. Especially with no health care. Pretty low.

 

[Spectre]

Are you still required to clean cabins?

Yup, but the company is decreasing the Airbus from 156 seats to 150 so there will be 6 less seat back pockets for us to clean baby!

 

[oldxfr8dog]

You skirted the question..
How many pilots get more than 70 hours?

No, YOU skirted the question!
I just told you how many made the "Blended Rate". DB used that yardstick to tell us we are in the middle to top of the industry in pay.
In fact, that's only a third of us at most.
Jeez, what does it take to open your eyes?

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Why not?

That's like ignoring the FACTS...

Base rate is effective to 70 hours..
Even RESERVES are guaranteed more.

Fine. Reserves get 75 hours. My last line was worth 72 hours and impossible to improve on with open time.
Some guys in my base bid reserve because it PAID MORE!
OK, use 75 hours, not 83, to compare pay scales, then. It would be less deceptive.

 

[SonicPig]

A year one Captain flying 83 hours will make $80,544 (factoring in premium pay).

A year one F/O flying 83 will make $51,552.


That's ignoring the reserve factor..
To figure that... take the base rate at 70 hours and add 5 hours of premium (150%)

There no such thing as a One Year Captain anymore!!

 

[Spectre]

Glad to hear that your personal career goals have been met so easily. Considering that I've been taking continuous pay cuts for 5 yrs, with no end in sight, I may just shoot a little higher than that.

So you are an unhappy A320 Captain at JB. You think you could have upgraded and made more money at a legacy the same years you have been at JB? If you look at your pay the last 5 years vs the last 5 years at where you were before (a car salesman), you probably earned more.

Looking forward, there are certainly improvements that are necessary here at JB. Sure, 320 guys got the shaft vs 190 guys. The company really should not divide our pilot work group when it comes to compensation adjustments. It's like saying the 190 mechanics will get a raise and the 320 mechanics get nothing. I think if we make $200 million next year, we'll see that adjustment in profit sharing and raises. Until then, I'll try to be patient and thankful for what I have now.

 

[Uniform Shop]

CAL at 29 per hour. That's liveable for a guy like me but I wonder how others make it work. Especially with no health care. Pretty low.

First year pay does suck.. No getting around that. First year pay at the "legacy's" have always sucked. The no health care is a misconception though. CAL provides you with different health care options for the first 6 months but it's not a CAL plan. You still have coverage and the cost is almost the same.

If you are interested in making more money your "first" year (which I can't blame anyone for that) then go to AirTran, JetBlue, Spirit etc. Everyone's situation is different.

Good Luck!!!

 

[SonicPig]

You guys treat this airline as if its been around 70 years. We're still an infant trying to find a way to success. If it takes a few years to do it, why not support it-- I'm not starving right now. At least the company found a way to bring up the 190 F/O pay, even though we're not even in the black this year. What other airline in the red is handing out pay raises, ummm, NONE... It is much easier to ask for money back ala US Airways, Delta, Northwest, UAL. It is much harder to give money out and this company does try to "do the right thing". If there are those here on board who don't like it, then, the door is open-- LEAVE, and then, maybe then, when enough pilots cross the threshold, we just might see some more in terms compensation and benefits...

How long did it take you to make Bus Captain? Six months or a year?
Dude, you should realize about 2/3's of the group stopped drinking the cool-aid this morning. Things aren't going to remain the same because you want them to. Sorry Bro, I know this is tough on you.

Later,
The Pig

 

[AKAAB]

My Koolaid just turned green. That's what you get when you mix blue and yellow ( koolaid + p1ss).

 

[On Your Six]

My Koolaid just turned green. That's what you get when you mix blue and yellow ( koolaid + p1ss).

Now that's FUNNY! LOL!!!!!!!!!

 

[Formula1]

The rest of the pay rates

Somebody from JB please post the EMB-190 eates for the consecutive years past year one for both Captain/FO.

 

[Dizel8]

I think if we make $200 million next year, we'll see that adjustment in profit sharing and raises.

I am going to bet that you will not see a payraise, just listen to the last 10 minutes of our investor conference call where Neeleman talks about profit sharing.

The jetblue pilots just got handed a shart sandwich, the time for "giving it time" and "TFAYD" is over, now real negotiations must commence and you know what that means............

 

[mannyaplus11]

Here you go:
E190 CA

75.00
76.73
78.41
80.14
81.90
83.54
85.21
86.91
88.65
90.43
92.23
94.08

E190 FO

47.00
50.62
52.69
55.54
58.26
59.43
60.62
61.83
63.06
64.33
65.61
66.92

 

[Formula1]

Thanks Manyaplus11 for posting the new EMB-190 pay rates.

 

[regionaltard]

Wow, all without a Union. Now lets see if ALPA can follow their lead.

You call that "leading?" You guys just crack me up.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Wow, all without a Union. Now lets see if ALPA can follow their lead.

Or is JB offereing this meeger amount of money to make the fence sitter sit a while longer and not send in a Union card.

 

[bluejuice787]

You guys treat this airline as if its been around 70 years. We're still an infant trying to find a way to success. If it takes a few years to do it, why not support it-- I'm not starving right now. At least the company found a way to bring up the 190 F/O pay, even though we're not even in the black this year. What other airline in the red is handing out pay raises, ummm, NONE... It is much easier to ask for money back ala US Airways, Delta, Northwest, UAL. It is much harder to give money out and this company does try to "do the right thing". If there are those here on board who don't like it, then, the door is open-- LEAVE, and then, maybe then, when enough pilots cross the threshold, we just might see some more in terms compensation and benefits...

In otherwords what BLUE BAYOU is saying is that he has already got his. No need to worry most everyone is aware of this Jacka$$ from MCO.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Buddy Spike!

(outside the furball, state 10.2)

 

[Dano]

My guess is that Bob Neal (recall coordinator at United) will soon be getting a bunch of calls from UAL furloughees currently at JB.

Merry effing Christmas!

With bluelove,

David and Dave

He'll be getting a call from me tomorrow!!! (Senior 190 Ca)

 

[Truckdriver]

What did they do with the 401K match? The rumors were that it would go all the way up to 5%.

On a side note, I agree with those saying don't calculate premium pay for compensation. What other jobs give you a salary number based on potential overtime?? You also cannot use any amount over your min guarantee to state income on loan applications. You have to use past averages if you want to use the premium pay because banks consider that you will not actually earn it in the future. If a professioal money manager figures it is risky that you will earn it, so should you. Run your budget on min guarantee and if you get extra, save it. If they figure the blended rate is 83 hours, then they should pay a 1st year 320 FO 54.95 per hour (the blended rate for 83 hours based on 50.96) and not pay premium pay. Just pay us 54.95 per hour for all hours we fly.

 

[Spectre]

In otherwords what BLUE BAYOU is saying is that he has already got his. No need to worry most everyone is aware of this Jacka$$ from MCO.

Some of the guys here early on actually helped build this airline. I think this guy deserves having a great strike price for his stock option since I know he turned down a line number from American to take a job here at JetBlue. Careful with your choice of words as this company is still small enough that we also know who you are buddy.

They'll always be guys here at JB who like the company and will defend management. Maybe they were here when times were good and that is why a little bump in the road is no big deal. I've worked at NWA and will never go back there. That is probably also the feeling of many USAir furloughees. Believe me, the grass is not greener. We've seen the ugly side of legacies and furloughs and empty promises. No matter how you hate it, JB management seems to act straight forward and won't make empty promises that it can't keep. Sure, we'd all like a raise in pay and benefits. Who wouldn't? However, we all remember where pay plus 1% parity gets us.

A good question asked today during the road show was how many pilots have left the company this year and how many do you think will leave next year. I believe Dave Barger pretty much side-stepped the question. So one positive outcome of pilots leaving JB is it will give the instructors at the schoolhouse in MCO some job security as JB continues to defer aircraft orders.

 

[BlueBusDriver]

retracting my previous post. It's not worth it.....

 

[Bake]

Spectre, you are not worth it.

 

[AlbieF15]

As someone who has seen a lot of the Jetblue crew force along the way, my "best guess" at guys who have left this year is approx 100.

I expect that trend will only go up.

Any company that grows goes through growing pains. However, things I saw (as an outsider) that made Jetblue a unique place to have an airline career were:

A- A unique atmosphere of trust and teamwork...
B- Rapid upgrades

A combination of factors has softened "A". Blue Dude correctly pointed out he was making more 5 years ago than today...due to INFLATION. Not even adding a COLA for the A320 guys says "we are not about protecting your income for the long haul...". The two-tiered airplane fleet create a blue team/brown team...not good for unity or team spirit. Finally--even some of the most loyal of JB guys and gals feel like they are being "dictated to..." with the latest pay committee...not "discussing". None of this bodes well for either group.

The rapid upgrades are waning due to the law of large numbers and a slow down in deliveries. The math simply means what was a six figure job year 2 is now a six figure job....maybe....in year 4 or 5. You are going to attract a different group of pilots with that math, and a lot of guys who face delays in upgrades may accept recalls to their previous airline for a vareity of Q of life issues or just pure old disappointment and disillusionment.

The guys who hang...well...they MAY just be at Southwest airlines circa 1980. Or they may be at People Express circa 1981. Time will tell...

Good luck to all concerned--there a LOT of nice folks there...

 

[elag777]

He'll be getting a call from me tomorrow!!! (Senior 190 Ca)

So that would make you a semi senior 320 fo then, good luck at UAL though? short term gain long term loss? Who knows...

 

[cgmason1]

190 pay will be fixed Jan 1, I think LCC will be mad with their starting rates on the 190 then

Elag I don't think LCC is going to be very mad with the rates announced today. I was hoping you knew something no one else did and were right.
Doesn't appear to be the case.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[furloughed dude]

Boy have I heard this before!

I was hired at Jetblue in the spring of '03 after being furloughed. They didn't make you resign your seniority, so I decided to give it a shot. It wasn't a bad place to work, and there were some outstanding guys that worked there. There was a very large group of koolaid drinkers though. Things were good at first, the stock was going up like a mutha, and the stock options looked like they might be worth a lot. Guys that got hired a year or so earlier had already done very well on them. Upgrades were going at around 20-22 months or so.

Jetblue announced the -190 in '04 and good old Al Spain said time and time again that it wasn't an rj. Everyone thought a pay raise was imminent and thought the -190 rates were going to be close to the current 320 rates. Then, management sent us a DHL package which included our new agreement and -190 rates. Everyone was totally pissed and we had tons of those "pocket sessions" to address the pilots' concerns. Of course, nothing was changed and rates remained the same. I immediately sent out resumes even though I was very close to bidding captain, and luckily I got hired elsewhere.

It sounds like some things never change. There is only so much of that rah-rah crap you can listen to before you lose trust in management. I mentioned unions about two years ago. That place needs a union. Not to rape the company, but to have a real voice in your contract and work rules. Most of the top 400 or so believe that unions are the source of all of legacies problems, plus they are afraid that it will cost them in stock price. I found all of the committees (or whatever they call them) are eye wash and don't do a whole lot.

Good luck over there guys, it looks like you will need it...