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Who would aspire to work for AA?

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AA717driver

AA717driver

A simpler time...
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Posts
4,908
Not flame bait and if any current AA/TWA starts one I'll delete the thread. (I want to hear from disinterested parties.)

Here's the scenario: The other legacies are hiring. You know from airlinepilotcentral.com what the pay is and roughly what the QOL is from here. AA opens up hiring after recalling everyone and whoever bypasses for 3 years has done so.

Where does AA fit on the list?

My reason for asking this is the fact that Eagle can barely field a class and AA's working conditions (staffing, reserve, upgrade potential, disharmony with the AA v. TWA lingering, etc.) not being the best in the world don't place it too far ahead of Eagle.

Thanks in advance. TC
 
Eagle can't find people only because they have long upgrades and seemingly infinite reserve times, at majors especially legacies that's not much of a problem because you're expecting a long upgrade and pay at AA for FOs is decent, at least better than a regional CA.

The problem for AA and other legacies is the question of who is going to be dumb enough to fly for them after what has happened the last few years. All you need is another 9/11.
 
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I'd rather piss on an electric fence than work for AMR again. I was involved in the epic Crandall whipsaw wars at Eagle back in the mid 90's and can't really see any difference in the management style being used today.
 
mynameisjim said:
All the airlines suck these days, what makes yours so much worse?
Click to expand...

Just looking for the perception from those outside of AA (and a little cheap entertainment ;) ). TC
 
It's supply and demand. Someone will want it. With their current attrition rates, it would be ideal for someone around 25 years old, my guess is that's all you will see with the future new hires.

I think the real shock for all of the Legacies will come in the quality of the applicant that they receive. The last time AA, UAL, NWA and DAL sent out invites, they were choosing from the best of the best. Not anymore.

This time when they start going through the piles of apps (@$100 each), they will come to the realization that all of the top tier folks have already been absorbed by FEX, UPS and SWA. They will also realize that this time around, no one will be leaving any of those to come to a legacy. Five years ago who would have left DAL or AA for CAL? Now how many new hires would choose AA or DAL over CAL? This is something that the egos of the legacy hiring departments have not had to deal with. I can't wait until they start fielding the, "sorry I can't make my new hire initial slot, Airtran has offered me a slot and I live in ATL". Five years ago that phone call never happened.

This will no doubt lead to more costs in the recruiting department(look for that $100 app to go hirer), more washouts in the sims, longer IOE times, more no shows, more new hires leaving as soon as UPS or luv calls, yada yada. You can try and tell them this ahead of time but they like typical airline mgt they will need to discover this on their own.
 
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I've got an interview with a respectable heavy international operator next week.. if hired, I'll have officially given up on AMR.
 
Ok, I'll bite I guess....

AA is on my list, mainly because of the ORD base. I live in MKE, don't want to move, and would prefer to not commute for the rest of my career when I move up and out of the regionals. This pretty much leaves AA, UAL and SWA. It will be a while before I'm competative for any of those guys, so I haven't reseached them too hard yet. The biggest thing I'm looking for is being able to be domiciled near home.
 
I shall take a bite on this one (just an FYI I am posting under my friends username so disregard the profile)

I would go to AA in a heartbeat.

About me, I am 24 years old, working for an all turboprop company and am looking to upgrade in two months or so to left seat of a Beech 1900. I REFUSE to work for a race to the bottom RJ company, and am enjoying my life and job. I like the company I work for, however, my ultimate goal is to work for a legacy.

I am hoping that those at RJ companies will get comfy in their left seat, with 18 days off, not having to commute, not wanting to go on reserve, and not wanting to take the pay cut, will leave opportunities for guys who are more flexiable, coming from other operations, the chance to gobble up these legacy jobs. I want my first jet that I fly to be an MD-88, 737, 757, etc., not a barbie jet :)

After flying around the Northeast in a Beech 1900, I feel as if I am 'paying my dues' to move on to greener pastures. Like I said, I really enjoy my job, however I COMPLETELY understand that airline industry is a $hitty one to be in, no matter how you cut it. Those that have been at the legacy carriers have constantly been kicked in the nuts numerous times and it sucks. If I have that mindset going into my next job, which I hope is a legacy job, such as AA, than I figure I will be all right. I'll make sure I save for my own retirement, start some other sides stuff that I hope can support me when/if I get furloughed, and marry a T.F.B. (Trust Fund Baby :) ).
 
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I'll be applying, AA would be my first choice, mainly because I want MIA base.

It's all a cycle. Everybody wants to go to CAL now, it'll be different in 5 years. MAybe AA will be the place to be again.
 
V70T5 said:
I've got an interview with a respectable heavy international operator next week.. if hired, I'll have officially given up on AMR.
Click to expand...
Let me know how it goes! Good luck!!!
 
Sadly, no matter how far the pay and work rules have fallen, there will be no shortage of applicants to any legacy. In an age when Virgin America will have a line out the door of eager applicants, do you really think an AA or UAL won't be able to find a few hundred starry eyed SJS afflicted 20 somethings a year? Yeah, I forgot, the impending pilot shortage, right? I won't be long until we see new "United scantron question" threads again.
 
CF34-3B1 said:
Sadly, no matter how far the pay and work rules have fallen, there will be no shortage of applicants to any legacy. In an age when Virgin America will have a line out the door of eager applicants, do you really think an AA or UAL won't be able to find a few hundred starry eyed SJS afflicted 20 somethings a year? Yeah, I forgot, the impending pilot shortage, right? I won't be long until we see new "United scantron question" threads again.
Click to expand...


I agree with you however, there is one wild card. The starry eyed SJS guys will look at regionals to stay in the long run. I really don't know if a seven year RJ Captain will want to make a move to ANY major and start from the bottom again or go to a place such as Virgin America. They MIGHT be more selective in where they decide to go.
 
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AA717driver said:
(I want to hear from disinterested parties.)

Here's the scenario: The other legacies are hiring. You know from airlinepilotcentral.com what the pay is and roughly what the QOL is from here. AA opens up hiring after recalling everyone and whoever bypasses for 3 years has done so.

Where does AA fit on the list?

Thanks in advance. TC
Click to expand...


I'm a fairly disinterested party. Never at AMR and will never be there (too old).


The reserve thing my friend puts up with there kills me. 3.75 hrs a day guarantee for 73 hrs a month. Good thing he can drop 4 days with pay for the military reserves every month if he picks the right days ahead of time.

The lack of pay protection on many (most?) pairings is nasty. Lose a trip and you lose a lot of pay that month. 64 hrs guarantee? That is awful.

He stays for the pension and the hope hiring will really kick in when the airplane situation improves. Retirements are huge at AA.

I hear UAL is worse. I hear Delta is much better, but the pay is better at AA. AA is also a lot more stable---Right now.

Choose your poison.
 
The supply and demand curve is shifted way in favor of mainline management. However, certain fences will have to be put up against leaving regional pilots in a major hiring boom. I wouldn't be surprised if the ERAU captain program people went straight to the mainline.
 
jtrain609 said:
I agree with you however, there is one wild card. The starry eyed SJS guys will look at regionals to stay in the long run. I really don't know if a seven year RJ Captain will want to make a move to ANY major and start from the bottom again or go to a place such as Virgin America. They MIGHT be more selective in where they decide to go.
Click to expand...

I gladly left a regional after 8 years and don't regret it for a second. Took a small paycut first year overall but that's factoring in training pay. Once I was out on line my monthly income was on average equal to or greater than what I was making my last year as a CRJ Captain. After 12 months I was making much more than before I left. I know LOTS of people from my old regional with 5 to 10+ years seniority trying to get to a major.
 
CF34-3B1 said:
I gladly left a regional after 8 years and don't regret it for a second. Took a small paycut first year overall but that's factoring in training pay. Once I was out on line my monthly income was on average equal to or greater than what I was making my last year as a CRJ Captain. After 12 months I was making much more than before I left. I know LOTS of people from my old regional with 5 to 10+ years seniority trying to get to a major.
Click to expand...


Very, very, very, very true. A LOT of people want out.

It just had me thinking of a talk I was having with a E-170 Captain at Republic. He started out flying the JBall at CHQ and moved his way up. He has great seniority and has through the course of our conversation has said the ONLY place he would leave to go to would be Southwest. He said he could care less if the majors started hiring he just wanted to go to Southwest.

Obviously, things change, just wondering how true that would be if the majors opened up.

I do agree with you, when the majors start hiring again for every one pilot slot they will probably have 7,000 applicants for that single slot!
 
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In my "TWA" opinion. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding) I think they will have a lot of qualified applications and once again people will be knocking down the door to try and get on there. The airline industry is cyclical and AA is rebounding pretty well and (as much as I hate to admit it :) ) very well managed.

They have almost 6 billion dollars in the bank and the only "passenger" airline with a full pension still intact. I can almost guarantee the pay will be going up as well. If you started this career to be an airline pilot you would be nuts to turn down a job at AA because of how they look in 2006.
 
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mynameisjim said:
All the airlines suck these days, what makes yours so much worse?
Click to expand...

I agree..that's right, all the airlines suck right now.

It's all relative. Of course all the regional guys are crying, but believe it or not, I've even heard FedEx guys bitching about stuff. Go figure.

I'd definately go to AA. The fact that lots of pilots are quitting AA right now is fine with me; I hope they find greener pastures elsewhere and they get what they're looking for. But why should I stay at my sucky airline where the top captain only makes $80,000 per year, when I can spend my career at AA and after I upgrade at least retire making a six figure income. Even if I dont upgrade in even 15 years or so, a 15 year AA f/o still makes more than a senior captain makes at my airline. Regarding how mgmt treats you, AMR mgmt is no worse than most of these cheap a$$ regionals or even my specific airline. Remember, JMHO.
 
Flechas said:
Everybody wants to go to CAL now, it'll be different in 5 years. MAybe AA will be the place to be again.
Click to expand...

I hate to break it ya, but everyone wanting to go to CAL couldn't be further from the truth. I know plenty of folks that are aggresively pursuing FDX, UPS, SWA, and JBL. And as posted already, I think Delta will start hiring soon (heard that as well from Delta guys in my unit). I thoroughly am enjoying CAL so far and its long range vision is extremely bright, but there are plenty of professional pilots with FDX on their agenda as number 1.

AA's got a very long way to go. Still about 2000 on furlough if I've heard correctly. Don't count your chickens too quickly just yet.
 
CF34-3B1 said:
Sadly, no matter how far the pay and work rules have fallen, there will be no shortage of applicants to any legacy. In an age when Virgin America will have a line out the door of eager applicants, do you really think an AA or UAL won't be able to find a few hundred starry eyed SJS afflicted 20 somethings a year? Yeah, I forgot, the impending pilot shortage, right? I won't be long until we see new "United scantron question" threads again.
Click to expand...

In other words, the youtube videos will stay the same except the equipment is going to be mainline and not regional.
 
Midnight Flyer said:
I agree..that's right, all the airlines suck right now.

It's all relative. Of course all the regional guys are crying, but believe it or not, I've even heard FedEx guys bitching about stuff. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Not me, I love my job. You'll always have a few glass is half empty folks, but most of us realize our glass is way past half full.
 

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