Who would aspire to work for AA?

[Crossky]

I think the real shock for all of the Legacies will come in the quality of the applicant that they receive. The last time AA, UAL, NWA and DAL sent out invites, they were choosing from the best of the best. Not anymore.

This time when they start going through the piles of apps (@$100 each), they will come to the realization that all of the top tier folks have already been absorbed by FEX, UPS and SWA.

Now how many new hires would choose AA or DAL over CAL?

What defines who's the best of the best? You sound like a prejudiced military flyer but your avatar reads otherwise (no offense to mil pilots). I think a high quality applicant is rather guaranteed, a CA with at least 1000 Jet PIC (or is that not enough in your book?). Remember there are thousands of RJ and frac CA's just biding their time, not wanting a continental cross country commute when they could wait for their local legacy to hire again.

Myself, I'm from flyover country (central plains), so I'd go to AA to fly a silver S80 ('stupid 80') in a heartbeat.

 

[iaflyer]

I think what you are seeing is from the inside (or furloughed) is a reduction in pay, QOL and benefits from what it used to be at AA. Looking in from the outside, I can't see the reductions - I can only compare it to my current job. When I do that - AA looks like a better place.

I think guys from the regionals or other places might look at AA as a great place - especially if they live in one of the bases.

 

[100 c.i.]

Ahhh, but, when will AA's pension disappear?

That would only speed up retirements, thus meaning faster upgrades. As much as would hate to see it disappear, I'am currently preparing my "C" fund. You know the "I got MINE" mentality.

 

[HA25]

Ahhh, but, when will AA's pension disappear?

That depends on whether the rest of the ALPA and union carriers get one in their next contract..

 

[AA717driver]

That depends on whether the rest of the ALPA and union carriers get one in their next contract..

I think the only improvements to pensions at those carriers that have had their DB plans stripped is an increase in the amount contributed to the DC plan by the company.

Not bad if you're just starting out but for mid to high seniority guys, it won't help much.

DB plans are done. JMO.

Thanks to everyone posting. This is exactly what I was looking for when I started this. TC

 

[Vne]

The best "job' is the one you "have". If your "looking" then its the one that calls and offers first. If AA looks better to somebody thats 'their' problem. Not every one drew pictures of shiny AA jets back in 1983 and pined for "the day I get to be an AA pilot" .My guess is the best day at AMR is your first. Then its all down hill.
FEX-UPS- They are almost 9/11 proof......jmofwiw

 

[instructordude]

God, I'd love to work there.

 

[Big Slick]

Let's not forget one other piece of the puzzle. When I got hired by AA, about 30% of Air Force pilots were accepting the bonus and staying in the military. Right now, the bonus acceptance rate is at about 70-80%.

Although cargo and LCCs are hiring right now, it is just too uncertain to get out. With the bonus, AF pilots make over $100,000 a year as a major. So, there has to be something pretty good to lure them out of the military. Knowing that the industry is in chaos and that they might not get hired by anyone, most AF guys are going for the sure thing.

However, if all of the airlines - legacy, LCC and cargo - start hiring again the bonus take rate may drop down to previous levels. When this happens, the market will once again be flooded with military pilots who have tons of jet PIC.

Also, the bonus used to last until 20 years of military service. The new bonus, however, only lasts until 14 years of service. So, the guys who elected to take the 5 year bonus will be ready to get out again in about 2-3 years - right when everyone will be hiring. Also, these guys will be ridiculously qualified for the airlines after staying in an extra 5 years. They will have at least 3500 military jet hours with 2500 hours of jet PIC and 2000 hours of military instructor time.

To the civilians on here, these hours probably sound low. But don't forget, we are comparing apples to oranges. Most fighter/trainer pilots get hired with about 1500 total hours. Most tanker/transport/bomber guys get hired with about 2500 total hours. Obviously, the civilian numbers are higher. One reason is that most civilian guys get a lot of non-jet hours and a lot of non-PIC hours. All the airlines really care about is jet PIC. If you are flying an F-16, for example, you are logging jet PIC from day one.

IMHO, the military floodgates will be opening again soon and there will be a ton of super-qualified military guys getting hired.

 

[STL717]

What does the future hold?

AA's CASM is high compared to the LCCs.
LCC competition is increasing.
AA has $20 Billion in debt.
AA has lost a large percentage of the first class passengers of the '90s.
Aprey is so brilliant, the concessionary contracts of '03 were right out of his masters thesis.
AA's corporate culture is flawed.


Is there a recession coming in '07?
The next recession will be hard on AA.

 

[guest33]

So when will AA hire again?

 

[airdog757]

Big Stick.....You sound like the Typical AA capt. I as well as others turned down the almighty AA in the mid 80's. Remember how nobody wanted to work there? Now they all walk around like they're superman. and yes most are from the buddy club/military.

.................out

 

[CSY Mon]

I as well as others turned down the almighty AA in the mid 80's.

You did good: Applied to AA in the middle of explosive growth, then turned them down when offered a job?
Went to TWA instead and ended up flying for half the pay?

Good career planning and if something went wrong, always blame it on AA or APA.

 

[G4G5]

What defines who's the best of the best? You sound like a prejudiced military flyer but your avatar reads otherwise (no offense to mil pilots). I think a high quality applicant is rather guaranteed, a CA with at least 1000 Jet PIC (or is that not enough in your book?). Remember there are thousands of RJ and frac CA's just biding their time, not wanting a continental cross country commute when they could wait for their local legacy to hire again.

Myself, I'm from flyover country (central plains), so I'd go to AA to fly a silver S80 ('stupid 80') in a heartbeat.

You are missing the point. When I interviewed at AA just having tons of PIC jet time was not enough. Guys were showing up for interviews with masters or space shuttle time in their log books. Those types of guys will not be applying to AA any more, they are going to UPS, SWA or Fedex and not even wasting the $100+ dollar application fees.

 

[frog_flyer]

Let's not forget one other piece of the puzzle. When I got hired by AA, about 30% of Air Force pilots were accepting the bonus and staying in the military. Right now, the bonus acceptance rate is at about 70-80%.

?? VSP = paying guys to leave.

Is that 100k (125k?) over 5 years still around? I know the Navy still has something around there.

 

[airdog757]

CSY... You prove my piont so well !

...Hello McFly! AA started what later bacame known as the "B" Scale.
They were offering second hand pay, with "zero parity" ever!
AA was the "only" airline that was offering these crap wages at the time. They did not get the cream of the crop (which you seem to show this point). When I was hired at TWA, we then flew more flights to london ALONE than AA had to all Europe.
Yep,...... My crystal ball was broken...and it still is.
This business is a "CRAP SHOOT" and if you still can't see that then there probably is no hope in talking to you.
On another note....I remember riding the jumpseat with the old Eastern and PanAM guys, they always showed so much class.
If I were lucky enough to have Carl Ichan buyout Eastern or Pan AM (which both were rumors at one time or another), I would NEVER...I repeat NEVER, treat them the way APA treated the oldest surviving airline at the time, ie; TWA. and yes ALPA actually hurt our plight too since they were still trying to wine and dine APA. (read $$$$$)
This is the big picture....step back from your high horse and take a glance once in a while.

.....................OUT

 

[ironspud]

You did good: Applied to AA in the middle of explosive growth, then turned them down when offered a job?
Went to TWA instead and ended up flying for half the pay?

Good career planning and if something went wrong, always blame it on AA or APA.

and so the bashing starts...again.

 

[jeroom]

I shall take a bite on this one (just an FYI I am posting under my friends username so disregard the profile)

I would go to AA in a heartbeat.

About me, I am 24 years old, working for an all turboprop company and am looking to upgrade in two months or so to left seat of a Beech 1900. I REFUSE to work for a race to the bottom RJ company, and am enjoying my life and job. I like the company I work for, however, my ultimate goal is to work for a legacy.

I am hoping that those at RJ companies will get comfy in their left seat, with 18 days off, not having to commute, not wanting to go on reserve, and not wanting to take the pay cut, will leave opportunities for guys who are more flexiable, coming from other operations, the chance to gobble up these legacy jobs. I want my first jet that I fly to be an MD-88, 737, 757, etc., not a barbie jet

After flying around the Northeast in a Beech 1900, I feel as if I am 'paying my dues' to move on to greener pastures. Like I said, I really enjoy my job, however I COMPLETELY understand that airline industry is a $hitty one to be in, no matter how you cut it. Those that have been at the legacy carriers have constantly been kicked in the nuts numerous times and it sucks. If I have that mindset going into my next job, which I hope is a legacy job, such as AA, than I figure I will be all right. I'll make sure I save for my own retirement, start some other sides stuff that I hope can support me when/if I get furloughed, and marry a T.F.B. (Trust Fund Baby ).

In your dreams... I can tell you from a RJ driver point of view that as soon as I find a better opportunity , I will bail out from the ship. No matter how many days off I got or easy my line has become, or how long reserve will be in my new company!! and it's the same for a bunch of guys I know...
We are also "paying our dues" in the RJ world (most of us). what are you guys smoking in that 1900??

Man, must be good to be 24..isn't it?

 

[nimtz]

Growing up I wanted nothing more then to work for AA like my old man. Once I 'grew up' to the airline biz the reality I saw at AMR horrified me. Back in the day I gladly paid my 100 bucks once I met mins, but the last six years have made my perspective turn 180 degrees. Sometimes it bums me out because through the years I've come to know so many fine people in all levels of the operation. I hate to use the word cause it's so d@mn HR cliche, but the culture at American just seems to be in the dungeon.

 

[Big Slick]

Airdog 757,

I am not arrogant and I don't think I'm superman. Maybe when I started pilot training, but not now. Life has beaten me down too much. For example, being furloughed for 5+ years.

Earlier in this thread, there were numerous regional captains saying they would leave their current jobs to go to AA. I'm just bringing up the point that the competition for those positions is going to be tough.

Just because there are not many military guys getting out right now, that probably won't be the case in the near future. We are already predicting a pilot shortage soon in the Air Force.

So, let me rephrase my previous post. There will be tough competition for any positions opening at AA or any other airline in the near future. There will be a bunch of military guys eligible to get out and there will be a ton of civilian guys with lots of jet PIC. The civilians will be especially qualified after spending numerous years at the regionals.

Whether you are military or civilian, there will be a lot of HIGHLY qualified people available for these positions.

 

[airdog757]

Big Slick ...point taken. I agree.

...................out

 

[jtrain609]

In your dreams... I can tell you from a RJ driver point of view that as soon as I find a better opportunity , I will bail out from the ship. No matter how many days off I got or easy my line has become, or how long reserve will be in my new company!! and it's the same for a bunch of guys I know...
We are also "paying our dues" in the RJ world (most of us). what are you guys smoking in that 1900??

Man, must be good to be 24..isn't it?

Ok, I have friends at different regionals that are happy with their jobs, and have told me that they will not leave for ANY major or other opportunity there is out there.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, that is all.

About paying dues. Do the RJ FOs have to stand at the bottom of the steps in the -30 degree F windchill in PQI, freezing your balls off, getting blown with more snow as the Captain sits inside keeping number 2 spinning? Do the RJ guys have to worry about cleaning the cabins after EVERY flight, wondering if someone left you a little present in the form of a turd in a barfbag? Yes we ALL pay our dues, I just laugh my a$$ getting told by a RJ guy on paying my dues, especially during the summer when I am standing outside, boarding the PAX, in LGA when it is 120 degrees on the ramp looking at the RJ guys nice and cool inside their neat lil'jets with their APU blasting more warm air on my face.

 

[Motive Flow]

About paying dues. Do the RJ FOs have to stand at the bottom of the steps in the -30 degree F windchill in PQI, freezing your balls off, getting blown with more snow as the Captain sits inside keeping number 2 spinning? Do the RJ guys have to worry about cleaning the cabins after EVERY flight, wondering if someone left you a little present in the form of a turd in a barfbag? Yes we ALL pay our dues, I just laugh my a$$ getting told by a RJ guy on paying my dues, especially during the summer when I am standing outside, boarding the PAX, in LGA when it is 120 degrees on the ramp looking at the RJ guys nice and cool inside their neat lil'jets with their APU blasting more warm air on my face.[/quote]

We're all very impressed!

 

[BOHICAgain]

AA has always been number 1 on my list.

Ill hold out till some other legacy or national or cargo or anything other than a regional calls

 

[pipe]

AA has always been number 1 on my list.

Ill hold out till some other legacy or national or cargo or anything other than a regional calls

So, just to clarify, AA is number one with the exception of everything else. I couldn't have said it better myself.

PIPE