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My sixth year view of AirTran

  • Thread starter Thread starter BR715
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Why do you say that? Airtran, Frontier, Southwest and Spirit were around in the 90's when the legacies were steamrolling, so they are making money again, thats great!

With the exception of Southwest, the other airlines that you mention were not around very long. If you look at the mid-90's, each of those airlines were very young and each was flying a fleet of older airplanes. AirTran and Spirit were flying older DC-9's, and Frontier had several 737-200's. Those fleets had to be updated, and that meant taking on a lot of debt to be able to do that.

The LCC's of the nineties operated smaller, older fleets over a much smaller route network. Fast-forward 10 years, and these same companies have a lot of debt because of expansion and employees remaining longer. Because of employee longevity they are demanding more pay and benefits. The fleets are more fuel efficient, but the capital required to acquire those fleets comes borrowing a lot of money.
 
Lear70 what a refreshing dose of reality. Making $100K per year doing something you like puts you in the upper 5% of income in the US. There are many many people out there who would love to be in that position. You fly airplanes because you like to. BTW how is a marginally profitable company supposed to make big changes?

Hey YIP,

Not every flying position pays $100K/yr. Somehow you seem to believe that's the case with every pilot out there.

At $100K/yr, that puts you approximately in the 40% tax bracket. Let's be conservative and say that 37% of that income is taxed between federal and state. The net income would be $63K/yr. Still in the upper 5%, but not exactly a pot of gold either.

Good money? It would probably be hard to argue that it isn't. But is a job with a 24-hour on-call with 20-minute response times worth it? Nope. Most people would opt to do something a little better with less pay.
 
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You contradict yourself. Sounds like you shouldn't have quit your job flying the mail.
Really? Sounds like you need a lesson in deductive reasoning.

The contract that is sent to the pilots for ratification is a DIRECT result of what the NC is able to get out of the company.

That's correct, and the NC and BOD have been directed by the Wilson Polling numbers not to bring a concessionary contract. Therefore, until the NC is able to get a decent contract out of the company, they are compelled not to bring it to vote.

Make sense yet, or would you like a little more education regarding the RLA and collective bargaining?

Incidentally, hauling the mail is something I wouldn't have given up except to go to the majors. If you knew anything about it, you'd know that every carrier running USPS Priority Mail was given a pink slip after FedEx was given the contract several years before it was due to be bid again.

But then again, given your knowledge of the industry, I'm not surprised you don't know that.

Reality?

The sad reality is that we've systematically had our contract dismantled over the last 5 years. Management has been using our contract as toilet paper. And in your opinion, because I make over 100K, this is acceptable?

Personally I don't like being taken advantage of regardless of how much I make. Please do us a favor and never apply to AirTran, we have enough limp wristed, company sympathizers already.
That, also, is 100% true.

It doesn't mean, however, that we're going to have a "concessionary contract rammed down our throat", it just means the company is playing hardball. Coming out of the Redtail system I'm pretty used to these kinds of games. :puke:

Many of those, in and of themselves, are illegal work actions. Especially not calling for a gate, cleaning, catering, etc. Those ARE part of your job.

Show me where it says that I must do any of that in the FOM.
It's not in the FOM, it's simply something that is part of this job and the professional in me refuses to do anything less. I'll do my job 100%, but I'll also go 100% by the book, as the FAA expects me to do, and hope and expect the Captains I'm flying with to do the same.

Alaska had their contract shoved down their throats because they chose to go to binding arbitration, it was thier choice to do that.. BTW.. I believe they also got those $204 per hr pay raises because of binding aribitration... If we don't choose to go to binding arbitration, then guess what, the company can't shove chit down our throats that we don't vote on.
Exactly.

Besides, AAI could lose several million for 4Q and still make more than they did last year. AAI isn't gonna go anywhere in the near future.. Will the AirTran name be around forever? Maybe not, but, I would't expect the same fate as Easter, and Braniff.
Pretty much agree with this, too.

We will get a contract someday. But probably not anytime soon, especially with what is going on at DAL and USAir.. AAI management is just stalling, and really, what do you expect them to do, they are in the business to keep the airline making money. And thats what they are doing.
They actually have a FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY to the stockholders to do EXACTLY what they're doing... minimizing expenses for as long as they can. Every month they don't sign a contract giving us even basic COLA increases is another month at the old rates. Makes them a LOT of money, what incentive do they have to give us a new contract that costs them more?
 
Your family is in the minority.

Corporate Attorneys are making pretty good change, but it takes an inside contact to get one of these jobs (just like a major). VERY few do it on merit alone and if they do, they're one of the really talented attorneys who also makes a killing in the private sector doing high-power criminal defense.

The majority of attorneys doing bankruptcy practice, family law practice (divorce, wills, POA's), and state prosecutors make right around $100,000 a year and work from 7 in the morning until 6 or so at night.

Wow you should do a little research, bankruptcy and divorce lawyers make a killing.

Your close with the prosecutors in Florida they start around 35,000. But Its equivalent to getting hired at a regional with no experience,you stay a few years and get some expierence then move on to something better.
 
Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.
 
Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.
Yeah, have to say we spent a lot of money on divorce attorneys after my wife and I got married embroiled in crap with her ex...

Not to mention what happened with you and yours... yuck.

I'm also trying to sleep off a full-blown flu bug... At least I'll (hopefully) be ok for Thanksgiving.

Wow you should do a little research, bankruptcy and divorce lawyers make a killing.
There's about half a dozen GOOD bankruptcy attorneys here in town that make a LOT of money, the rest of them do so-so (this directly from a cousin who's a bankruptcy attorney here).

Same with the divorce lawyers, there's maybe a dozen good names, everyone else is kinda "ehhh" and they bust their butts trying to make six figures a year. This I know from having shopped over 30 attorneys before settling on a good one for my wife's problems with her ex and the custody crap that goes along with having a psycho idiot still around.
 
If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.
 
Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.


'tis true. Keep it comin', I want a new car.





But if you hire a $300/hr attorney, you have some serious assets to protect and you'll most likely save money in the end.
 
If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.
If you say so... The reality my family sees is drastically different than what you're painting.

Once you pay out malpractice insurance, office staff, expenses, what you clear is less than half of that $250k you're claiming unless you're in the top 2%.

The majority of attorneys and doctors make a great living, but nothing like the numbers you're throwing out there.
 
If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.

family practice doctors generally make 100-130k out of residency. they then top out around 160-180. the problem, as has been noted here, is that they usually owe 150-200k in student loans.

I knew someone that went to med school, became a family practice doctor, and came out of residency owing 180k before she decided she didn't really like practicing medicine after all. so here she is in debt up to her eyeballs, having to work 20 years just to pay off the student loan debt, before she can even think about doing something else with her life. not to mention, she pretty much gave up her 20s, finishing her residency at 29. if you do go to medical school, make sure that's really what you want to do, because even if you want to get out, you probably won't be able to.

granted, those salaries are for primary care physicians. the capacity to make more is much higher as a specialist.

not to mention, things are going in the wrong direction. as of January 1st, medicare reimbursement is going down 5% across the board. as a result, many specialties are seeing paycuts of up to 11%.

I'd agree with Goggles....with 20/20 hindsight, and MBA would have been the best way to go.
 
Yes it does, thanks...

Stopped yakking and such late last night, still pretty weak today...

As far as the MBA goes, just don't want to work that side of the house, too much respect for the job the people on the line do every day...
 
If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.
Frog,
My wife is an Atty, and makes about half that amount as an ADA down here in TX. Unless your personally related to an Atty, you have no idea what you're talking about. My wife doesn't suck at life because she doesn't make what you think that a Lawyer should make.

100K a year for an Atty is considered extremely good money and definitely not the norm at least in TX, and we live in Houston. I can't imagine what a Lawyer makes out in Odessa, San Angelo, or Lubbock.
 
and how many days off do attorneys and doctors get for their trouble?

you guys focus too much on the compensation end. look at the total quality of life and that's why i'm not beating down the door to med or law school.

what makes a good pilot contract? it's more than compensation...
 
But if you hire a $300/hr attorney, you have some serious assets to protect and you'll most likely save money in the end.

Two words: PRE NUP

Anyone who gets married without one these days is taking an unwarranted risk, even if you think you don't have that much to protect. Even if you don't have much in the way of assets, it will save you MUCH hassle down the road.

I've seen what seemed to be the nicest, sweetest women turn into the devil incarnate literally overnight due to what they think they are "owed". The girlfriend/mother effect can raise this several orders of mangnitude.

If you present it to her, and she gets all huffy, you don't need her claws in your sh!t. Look elsewhere, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

Nu
 
This is depressing. I would take my MBA and play some other game but there is nothing like flying. I guess that is why the lines are so long to get a job. Now, why isn't my phone ringing!?!
 
I've got several friends who practice law as well as my father and grandfather. Those friends who graduated from ivy league schools started in the low six figure range their first year. My father and grandfather practiced together and have had good years and lean years where they made less than 100K combined. My roomate in Austin just recently graduated from the McCombs MBA school and was offered a job in Mexico with a large company starting at over 85K his first year. I'm on my third airline and 8 years out of college and just started over again making 30K last year. I'll break 80K in '07 if I fly my current schedule on my equipment with the DH and INT'l per diem. It will probably be my 10th year in the industry before I break the six figure mark flying widebodies at CAL on 3rd year pay from the right seat. I try not to look back and wine about how long it has taken but rather enjoy the moment. I'm very cautious about the future but think that as the airlines continue to climb out of their holes that our labor contracts will once again rise with the tide.

IAHERJ
 
My 9 year view of AirTran:

The apathy around here is embarrassing. We could have had a contract a year ago if we had even the slightest bit of testicular fortitude.

We are about to have a concessionary contract rammed down our throat and no one is stepping up to the plate. Until we hit them in the wallet, expect nothing to change.

Taxi as if the FAA was observing, write up each and every maintenance discrepancy, alert, cabin discrepancy, do not reset CB's, do not test run engines (even if directed by Mx), conduct meticulous pre-flight inspections, do not call for a gate, cleaning, catering. In other words DO YOUR JOB AND NOTHING MORE!!

We have our sights set way too low. I've said it before, I can safely cast my NO vote today.

With an attitude like this, you might be the cause, not the cure. Just one man's opinion...
 

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