Uncle Jerry's Visit to The ASA Crew Rm

[Pogue Mahone]

first statement: I soeriously doubt JA made a statement like that in his private office, much less in a public place.

second statement: Sounds eerily similar to ALPA.

He said the same thing in the SLC crew louge earlier in the year. It is BLs mantra so it must be reinforced.

It is nothing more than an attempt to deflect some of the anger for the slow pace of negotiations onto a third party who is no longer part of the process (except in the background).

 

[ohplease!]

Was he telling the truth, maybe. Is the MEC telling us the whole truth, also maybe. The spin from both sides is so great that the whole truth is somewhere down the middle. I want a contract that is both fair and sustainable. One that will keep me AND the company viable/competative for the long haul. What I don't want is a token contract (Comair) that was not sustainable and will have large modifications done to it. Dump retirement and come off some of these other insane demands and get it done.

By the way, I believe that I and the pilot group have been very patient through this four+ year tragedy. That is why I want a contract NOW.

I believe the answer is to vote in different reps who will be reasonable in the demands made to ASA. Its now up to us to effect some change.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I believe the answer is to vote in different reps who will be reasonable in the demands made to ASA. Its now up to us to effect some change.

....and you think that John, Lynn, and Barry are those reps, huh?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I believe the answer is to vote in different reps who will be reasonable in the demands made to ASA. Its now up to us to effect some change.

Agreed...ALPA national has been revamped and now its time for change at the local level to finish this up.

 

[49W]

I believe the answer is to vote in different reps who will be reasonable in the demands made to ASA. Its now up to us to effect some change.

You are one of those running, are you not?

 

[ohplease!]

You are one of those running, are you not?

No I am not..

 

[ohplease!]

....and you think that John, Lynn, and Barry are those reps, huh?

They are the alternatives I have to choose from. Are you on the ballot?

 

[IFLYASA]

Who wants to bet if the mediator would just release us, we would have a contract in 30 day??? Delta/Jerry/Bryan will not let it go as far as a strike. Way to detrimental. I have a feeling he won't release us. Management won't meet us in the middle either. I'm beyond this company right now. It's like a broken record.

 

[ASARJMan]

They are the alternatives I have to choose from. Are you on the ballot?

Not that you'll change your mind about your vote, but Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley are also running for Capt's reps for the two LEC Council positions, by far better choices than the LJ Coalition.

VOTED IN FAVOR!
Vote for Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley for LEC Capt's Reps
A vote for the LJ Coalition is selling out to management-who endorses LJ & Company

 

[ohplease!]

Who wants to bet if the mediator would just release us, we would have a contract in 30 day??? Delta/Jerry/Bryan will not let it go as far as a strike. Way to detrimental. I have a feeling he won't release us. Management won't meet us in the middle either. I'm beyond this company right now. It's like a broken record.

less than 30 days....and it isn't just the company feeding you shovels full of cow pie.

 

[ohplease!]

Not that you'll change your mind about your vote, but Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley are also running for Capt's reps for the two LEC Council positions, by far better choices than the LJ Coalition.

VOTED IN FAVOR!
Vote for Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley for LEC Capt's Reps
A vote for the LJ Coalition is selling out to management-who endorses LJ & Company

My opinion of them (as far as alpa is concerned) is they are simply more of the same. I will vote for change and take my chances. If Nick and Danny win, I will support them in their posts and accept what they are able to deliver, if they are able to deliver.

 

[socony_air]

Agreed...ALPA national has been revamped and now its time for change at the local level to finish this up.

Hey atlcrjdriver - you need to do some serious discovery on those you think are going to affect change. LJ has an extensive history here. She IS NOT new blood. She may seem nice enough on the surface - but there is more to representing your interests than just that. I know you haven't been at ASA long enough to know this - so you need to ask around the lounge for opinions from pilots whom you respect & who have been here long enough to know her record. I will tell you outright - you will not like what you hear.

When you couple the info you gather along with the the company she keeps (ie John Breiling & the RJDC) & the fact that she is endorsed by Scott Hall & Brian Wilson (perinnial pilot & union basher) - you will begin to see that she is in this for the power & self-interest of the position. The rest on her ticket do not have the experience to engage the company at this critical hour & WILL be forced to rely on her for guidance. The mistake here is that she is in this for her own (and John's) interests.... not what is best for the majority of the pilot group.

I agree with some of what you are after. I agree (opinion only) we should drop the retirement issue in leiu of better 401k matching. I agree we should come down rates & perhaps fold in PBS if it can be made to comply with the newly TA's scheduling section. However - L. Jackson will sell you down the river in a quick minute. She will not honor her campaign promises & you should look to her history of past performance. There you will find examples of her self-serving style of "leadership". (ie - pft repayments, C. Pilot/management ambitions, & when the going gets rough...."I quit").

All you new guys.... wise up & ask around - this is not a change for the better.

 

[Bizjet]

first statement: I soeriously doubt JA made a statement like that in his private office, much less in a public place.

second statement: Sounds eerily similar to ALPA.

Well you are wrong. There were two tape recorders being used to record his statements. There were also about 15 pilots who listened to him make the statement. He is not a timid little worm like you.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Socony Air:

Don't get support for the RJDC confused with "union basher." I am a supporter of the RJDC and a union supporter. ALPA is our best hope for restoring this profession and ALPA is strongest when it represents all of its membership equally. The winds of ALPA political talk have been blowing towards a more inclusive union since the BOD meeting. But "Brand Scope" was also an ALPA talking point for a while that could not find traction with the select few major MEC members who functionally command the entire union.

At its core, the RJDC is a grass roots labor union effort. Over the years ALPA has become exclusionary and as a result lost its power. The RJDC wants an inclusive union - where all members have access to ALPA's tool box and where all members have the rights to negotiate their wages and working conditions with their employers. This would and will increase ALPA's power.

At ASA we are in the tough position of trying to hold the line while having had our scope blockade torpedo'd by ALPA National at the direction of the Delta MEC. ALPA and our local representatives are on the right side of this battle, but do not have much to fight with. Each airplane that SkyWest takes delivery of diminishes our power and we are apparently powerless to stop the transfer because ALPA failed to negotiate and at times actively blocked our attempts at securing scope.

The SkyWest pilots and the ASA pilots would benefit by bringing ALPA on to the SkyWest property. We can hold the line on this profession together. But separate we will both suffer the career instability and uncertainty caused by management whipsaw.

So I'm an ALPA supporter and have even enquired about going to SkyWest crew bases to promote ALPA. At the same time, I realize that ALPA must be reformed of it will continue its slide into irrelevance. Particularly at ASA, we are on the front lines of the battle and the unfortunate truth is that troops on the front line often get killed.

~~~^~~~

P.S. (general comments, not just to Socony) For this reason I think the ASA pilot reps should move forward on management's proposal with improvements in section 1 (scope). If SkyWest will not accept an improved section 1, then we should hold the line until ASA is gone, since that is a very possible outcome without section 1 anyway.

I would have liked to respectfully ask Jerry Atkin his thoughts on such a settlement. Not that I like Jerry Atkin, but I recognize that he has more power than any other individual in the Regional Airline business and, he isn't some Harvard Grad, or lucky middle level manager brown noser. He brought his airline empire up from nearly nothing and has the ego to go with his accomplishments. We don't get anywhere insulting and disrespecting people like Atkin. At best he thinks the insults are stupid and at worst he takes a personal interest in seeing you (or the group you represent) get destroyed. In the business world it is always the best policy to be as nice as you can and as firm as you have to be.

 

[CFIT]

With Fins, we're starting to see some logic show through the repetitive retoric. The dilemma is how much are you willing to pay for scope? Because it will certainly be very expensive and Jerry knows how important it is to him. Are you and your cohorts willing to take a substantial cut? Probably not. What about for retro or a signing bonus, eliminating PBS (although I don't blame you on PBS), how much are you willing to pay?

And of course when I say pay I mean how far back can you go on your scale? None of these things will be cheap.

 

[~~~^~~~]

CFIT:

I can only speak for me, but:

(1) Management's table offer is basically current book (ignoring rediculous 1/4 of 1% pay rate increases), plus the improved section 13. [As a SLOA - Performance Plus is offered in exchange for Pref. Bidding (which I do not want, but if we secure 4% in Perf. Plus and some growth, I consider it a wash) You can still bid your off days around your vacation and more pilots would be off reserve under a Pref. Bid. IMHO the CNC taking the right course that we will consider Pref. Bid, but need to do it thoughtfully and not rush into anything]
(2) Management has said they need the current offer to provide them with "security" that going forward ASA will have a competitive cost structure which allows them to maintain flying, grow and bid.
(3) Scope offers employees the same security management says that they want to secure with the current pay structure.

As I understand it, the logic behind the Fabulous 4's run is very similar to what I'm thinking. That the contract is 80% done (thanks to the heavy lifting by ALPA and our CNC) and that scope should be obtained by providing management the security they want, while providing employees with the security they want. If we secure growth, a fleet guarantee, then that growth will more than make up for the nearly nothing in pay rates through the stope pipe effect (FO's upgrade and get 40% raises, Captains go to the 700/900 and get 15%, reserves hold lines, and so on....)

Ultimately, our Representatives will do their best to represent the will of the pilot group, as indicated by Wilson Polling and the pilots who voice their opinions. It is my hope that ALPA National will support that process without using our pilot group to set a precedent. Whether it be Jackson and Lee, or Utley and Tomlinson, our representatives should represent the pilots. I think the 90 day deadline is not a good idea, in that the resposibilities of a status Rep go far beyond this contract into every other part of an airline pilot's interaction with ALPA and the Company. Just as a deadline for withdrawal for IRAQ is not a good strategy, a deadline for a vote of confidence on your Status Rep is rash.

One tough nut to crack is the training department. We have some of the best IP's around and I think we should keep our IP's and Standards guys in place. Current book is higher than industry average, but we do get what we pay for. Perhaps there is some room to outsource more while keeping our guys in place at the top of the IP food chain. After all, the current stagnation and fleet re-allocation is very inefficient. SkyWest admitted in the conference call that the 900 & 700 re-allocation was increasing SkyWest's costs. Growth would do a lot to cure the cost problem. Also, the current IP rates were a reaction of a desperate ASA management to keep IP's lat time hiring got hot. All indications are that hiring will get hot again, maybe in 2007, and if that is the case, ASA might once again need to retain IP's by paying them a good wage for their work.

So that is "my" position. Even better, we should use our scope (and SkyWest's lack of scope) to secure flying, at least the airplanes that were ASA's, including firm orders, when we were bought. More than retro pay, I want the airplanes, upgrades and quality of life back. If SkyWest wants to play too, then they need to join the union.

My fear is that ALPA might just fight their way into a better contract, but not secure scope, resulting in a ever shinking airline with fewer Capt. slots and lower QOL. We can not count on our friends at SkyWest to build on the foundation we make. In fact, many seem happy to take what they can from us while blaming us for not doing more to prevent their taking.

 

[Tomct]

Yes I am . I am simply pointing out that in my opinion there are much better ways to get things done than picketing. does it really accomplish anything? do you think anyone even remembers the events of the day? Has skywest suffered at all as a result of the picketing? Does anyone even remember the full page ad taken out in the paper? I am just saying ALPA should not waste their times on such activities. That is all. There is no need to take a paycut when your making money but there is also no need to try and break the bank either. Meet in the middle and I guarantee you all your dreams will come true.

Apparently you are NOT paying attention. Mgmnt wants us to take a 1% pay raise for 8 years of work! Yeah...did you hear that timmy? Screw THAT!!! The company won't even come back to the table and negotiate in good faith either. So, is this ALPA's fault? NO! It is our SH!TTY company and our worthless mgers. They are dragging their feet and hoping that they can bang as much cash out of us before they have to give in! My opinion, forget retirement! Increase 401 and give a good bump on pay, all of skywst incentives...open time time and a half and of course....100% retro pay! Without that, they can PISS OFF!! I don't care if they give all of our airplanes to skywst!

 

[socony_air]

Fins - not sure what you read, but I didn't confuse anything. I labeled Brian Wilson a "pilot/union basher" & said that L. Jackson keeps company with J. Breiling (RJDC litigant/supporter/whatever). Unless you are B. Wilson, I'm not here to drag out the whole RJDC laundry debate.

I know what the RJDC is. I don't need it spun for me yet again. I've heard it a million times before & I simply disagree with it as a being the best means for acheiving change within the National union. If you look at the recent national election & the ouster of D. Worth. I'd say the majority is speaking for reform & that democracy within the union is working at its own pace. I don't think suing for huge $$$, that will take money from coffers we have all worked hard to fill in the hopes of advancing our profession & placing said $$$ into the hands of J. Breiling or some other named litigant will do anything to change the tenor at ALPA national for the better.

I'm of the opinion that the RJDC's goal of allowing unlimited seats at carriers like ASA takes away jobs from the companies that the Majority of us want. I contend if you are young, educated & have ambitions of moving on to a Major one day, the RJDC is probably not the cause for you.

My comments were to inform a junior pilot (and any others that will listen) "Buyer Beware" when voting for L. Jackson to initiate change at ASA. Many may intend to vote for change - but in this case it would be a misguided vote for many reasons. Most of those reasons have little to nothing to do with the RJDC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Socony - You don't know what the RJDC is. The RJDC's goals have nothing to do with the "unlimited seats at carriers like ASA." In fact, the RJDC's founders fought for "all Delta flying performed by Delta pilots" leading up to the 2000 BOD.

Much damage has been caused to our profession while ALPA awaits reform at its own pace.

Regardless of whether you fly at Gulfstream, or are a 777 Captain, you benefit from a strong national union which represents all pilots for the purposes of bargaining collectively. An individual pilot's education, or career goals, should not determine whether ALPA benefits them, or not.

 

[VeeOne]

~~~^~~~,

Sounds like you've got a clear picture of how things should pan out, and I'm inclined to agree with you. Your post is one of the best pieces I've seen on here yet. You running for MEC by chance???