Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[GooseHZ]

yep...

keep on "I'll let them keep working on it without the formality of a union." I thouhgt the same thing here at FLOPS. No more! You just wait until they drop the hammer on you guys.....i hope you send in your cards. The union didnt fix everything....How do you think a contract will make the pilot v dispatch more happy happy joy joy??? it wont but we all will know the rules....the same rules not some that a CA or PM make up on the spot like they do here and at FLEX. Send in your cards.......

Fly safe!

 

[WabiSabi]

This is from section 152 of the RLA:

Fourth.
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter. No carrier, its officers, or agents shall deny or in any way question the right of its employees to join, organize, or assist in organizing the labor organization of their choice, and it shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the organization of its employees, or to use the funds of the carrier in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organizabion, labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining, or in performing any work therefor, or to influence or coerce employees in an effort to induce them to join or remain or not to join or remain members of any labor organization...


And the NMB has ruled that this prohibition with regard to interference, financially or otherwise begins when company management could reasonably have been expected to know that a union drive was underway. I think Gerry pointed that out.



Fact is FLOPS management knew about the Union drive at least 2 years prior to the vote. For them to come out two months prior to the vote and talk about, let alone offer a raise represented interference, and they knew it. But they wanted to have something to blame on the union. So there is no speculation about this issue THEY NEVER COULD LEGALLY IMPLAMENT A PAY RAISE AND THEY KNEW IT. It's actually quite brilliant - I'd expect nothing less from F&H - and some of our guys fell for it, as apparently you have.



Look man I understand that in your world unions are bad and I would concede that they are also unnecessary, what with only 8 airplanes and all. But why would you suffer pilots who work for a fractional, under a vastly different set of circumstances, that you really can't understand unless you've been there, their due recourse? You seem to enjoy rubbing our noses in your big pay check and wonderful working conditions. I have to wonder why?



Don't tell me it's because you are just trying to save Flex from what has happened at FLOPS, because you clearly don't understand what it's like to work for a big fractional provider, and without that first hand experience you are in no position to advise anyone at a fractional.



The Flex guys will vote in the 1108, it's only a matter of time and then they will come the realize the benefits of haveing a union behind them when they go to work. And yea it will probably get a little ugly at first, but one day they will have a contract and they will sleep easy with the knowledge they fought for something of value and won. Rather than running away to some small flight department where they are nothing more than some CEO's well paid limo driver and yes boy.


Say it with me now "Ohh yess sirr masser".

Very well said. The armchair comments from the peanut gallery are amusing.

And GEX, if you believed in FOPA or Faux Paux, then I have a mountain home in S. Florida that I would like to sell to you. You are obviously ignorant to what is really going on @ FLOPS. Take your misplaced arrogance elsewhere.

 

[dime line]

Just talked to a couple of FLEX guys, and there "waiting to see what happens at FLOPS". That is the problem for the FLEX movement. Absolutly insane

 

[pers-headwall]

It ain't gonna happen ,so stop wasting your time and get me off your mailimg list.

Signed, Neither Management Nor The School House.

 

[netjetwife]

It does seem illogical to me, too. The reason for standing together, though, makes perfect sense. When one is trying to get a message across, the louder the better. Flt Ops and Flex pilots could back up one another if both groups demand professional wages at the same time. The only thing I can see that will happen if Flex pilots wait is that they will be even further behind in acquiring the contract they deserve....

Why would they not want the chance to negotiate their pay?

Who wouldn't want fair work rules and benefits guaranteed in writing?

 

[broken spoke]

Help me to understand something!!

Netjetwife, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT CRAMMING A UNION DOWN SOMEONE ELSES THROAT!!?? I'm happy for your husband and the fellow aviators at NJ, but you, you seem hell-bent on causing problems for pilots YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW AT COMPANIES YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, PLEASE!! Good God, lady. I can't figure you out. I'm wondering: Why do you keep slamming Flexjet? Do you actually know any one here? Better yet, have you ever ran a fractional outfit? Do you manage a company with Millions flowing through every month? Do you work at all? I ask because you always act as if you know that a union is exactly what Flex needs. Or any frac for that matter. Your answer for every situation seems to be a union. I have read several of your posts over the past year or so. You act like every frac should be just like Netjets. Why? I think we all work in this industry just fine together. There is a niche for all. I have friends on both sides of the fence and personally, I like it here. If it was that superior over there, I'd go. But I didn't. I fly here on the line for Flexjet. Happy am I. For all those that spend their days moaning and groaning, you really should move on. Cause I think staying here and griping constantly about it makes one appear unstable. It's down-right unhealthy. Just do me a favor and stop being so judgemental. How boring it would be if we were all alike. Some people are happy driving a truck. Some mowing yards. But us'ns have the privilege of flying for a living. I'm just not in the favor of driving my company to its' knees for the sake of a few dollars. I believe in those that are in the position of authority here. Some don't, I do. So far, I've been a pretty good judge of character.

 

[netjetwife]

BS, you must have missed my posts also offering support to pilots' advisory councils, and expressing hope that they could help the pilots achieve their goals. I care because I strongly believe that professional pilots should be compensated as such and that they and their families deserve the lifestyle other professionals take for granted, but that is missing for too many frac pilots, and regional pilots, as well.

Causing problems for pilots? By what objective definition? Those that PM me would disagree with that incorrect assessment. Quite a few would say that I go out of my way to be helpful.

I am sure that there are differences between the fracs and that the pilots are happy where they work doesn't surprise me. I have posted as such, and that I can understand why some prefer to work at a smaller company. You have misinterpreted my references to NJ. The pilots of NJ are mentioned frequently in my posts with the intention of encouraging those pilots who are either currently at the bargaining table or would like to be. I don't think they are superior. To the contrary, I often say that the frac pilots share much common ground and face many of the same problems. I recognize that the NJ pilots still have improvements of their own to make, especially where the FOs are concerned.

My opinion that frac pilots could work together more refers to the lack of support that can often be read on this board for those who are trying to improve their situation. I don't think it's fair that they are told to "move on" just because they voice legitimate complaints over pay and/or working conditions. I don't see asking for a vote as "unhealthy." Many would view their efforts as a smart, democratic process to enact change.

I congratulate pilots who get a job and/or interview at NJA because it was what they wanted. I don't suggest pilots leave their present frac company to go to NJ. I do support pilots' efforts to make the job they have one they can afford to keep.

Yes, I know a few pilots at Flex. I apologize if you felt that I was slamming your company. I thought (and others have agreed) that I was offering support to the pilots there who would like the chance to vote for representation. I discuss issues; personal attacks are not my style.

To all those who choose to make personal attacks: Your griping constantly makes one appear unstable.... Just do me a favor and stop being so judgmental. How boring it would be if we were all alike. Seriously, if you dislike my posts please feel free to put me on your ignore list. BS, you seem opposed to any pilot-oriented change at Flex so my support for your fellow pilots who would like the right to vote will, unfortunately, continue to annoy you. Luckily, the ignore function solves that problem. The message board is big enough for both of us and I support your right not to have to see my posts. Thanks in advance for respecting my right to post on issues that affect my husband's career and our lifestyle as a frac family.

Sincerely,
Netjetwife

 

[Cautious Belly]

Last reply in this thread:

Today 02:44
by netjetwife

You're up at 0300 posting on a message board to cajole employees of a company with which you have no relationship at all? How pathetic and truly sad. Really, get a life, sister. Bake some cookies, get a job, read a book, do some volunteer work, anything!

More than one actual Flexjet employee, with a real stake in the issue, has asked you to back off. Don't you think that their request trumps your bizarre and pathological obsession with the matter? What right, no matter how correct you think you are, do you think you have to try to sway what happens at a company in which you have no legitimate interest or stake?

Flexjetters are big boys and girls, we don't need your help. Kindly keep your opinions to yourself, we'd appreciate it.

 

[broken spoke]

Hey, I don't mind you stating your thoughts and compassions about your husbands work, but it appears, more than obvious to me, that you think that a union is the answer for everything. Not always. I've seen, on several occasions in this industry, where the union caused more problems than good. You seem like an intelligent person, you should know this. What is good for one is not always good for another. Not all business plans are alike. Just ask that dork Arpey running AA. I bet he wishes he could operate half as good as Southwest. Two entirely different business plans. My point is that you should respect that. But instead, again, I sense an urgency it seems for us to go union. I just don't understand why you cannot accept that. That's all. God bless.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Opinions Vary....

No matter what the topic. I think the big issue, and CB pointed it out perfectly, is that NJW does not work for flex. Anyone who knows me knows that I want a union like I want a hole in the head. And yes, I do know how a union works. My father was a shop steward, so I know what a union can do. I have even shown NJW's posts to my wife, who is also not in aviation. Her response was that if she was for a union, which like me she is not, she would be against it due to your over the top, life can not go on, without a union.

While there are obviously those here at Flex that want a union, and that is their choice, please step away from the Flex side. You come across like a shiver waiting on a spine to walk by. IMO, you are doing more damage then good.

In an earlier post, I believe by Cosmo (not too sure though), the poster pointed out the fact that the Pro guys have a list of the anti guys. So, if you get your union, are you going for ethnic cleansing of the anti union guys? Great gestapo tactics there.

The bottom line is that I don't believe you go to a company with full knowledge of pay, bases, non union, etc and try and change them. Go to NJA or Flight Options if you want your union and leave the rest of us be who are happy.

CB, see you on the road. BS, thank you very much for getting me hired into Flex.

CL300pilot

 

[walshsfly]

I don't believe that NJW is a wife at all. I think its actually a union rep. someone from IBT maybe. Is this how unions work? hiding from the truth, and telling lies? Who in their right mind would want to be a part of an organization (that you have to pay) that won't come out from hiding, and tell us who they are.
In my opinion if you want to be heard as a real union supporter and give us a reason to listen to you then tell us who you are.
This doesn't mean that I will somehow be persuaded to join the dark side, but it will give you more credibility.

Walsh

 

[Cautious Belly]

Attn: Netjetwife.

There they are, four actual Flexjet employees who don't want to hear your opinions, NJW.

I truly hope that this will help you realize how irrelevant your opinions are to anyone who works at Flexjet, and spur you on to use your obviously abundant energy in some productive manner.

Just in case I haven't been clear enough:

• You don't work here.
• Your husband doesn't work here.
• Your children don't work here.
• You have absolutely no vested interest in what happens at Flexjet.
• You are entitled to your opinion, but your bizarre compulsion to repeatedly express your opinion in this forum is automatically outweighed by the fact that WE ACTUALLY WORK HERE AND YOU DON'T. Your opinions are not valid. Your "why don't you want to bargain" admonitions are not relevant, because you are a uninvolved third party.
• Actual Flexjet employees realize that you have no stake in what happens at Flexjet, and therefore do not value your opinion.
• By continuing to voice your demonstrably irrelevant opinion about Flexjet, you are meddling in the affairs of Flexjet, and in the lives of people you do not even know. Those people have asked you to stop. We all obviously feel that you are intrusive, irrelevant, unwelcome, and extremely obnoxious.
• The wishes of any one (1) of the ~400 actual Flexjet Pilot outweighs whatever quixotic mission of labor-organizing mercy you think you are on. You are an unwelcome outsider. Kindly mind your own business. We don't intrude on you, your family, or your husband's employer. We expect, and ought to be granted the same courtesy.
  
• It's a free country, you haven't violated the terms of use of this website, but again, you are meddling in the lives of people you don't even know, for no valid reason. That calls into question your credibility, your consideration for other people and quite simply, your state of mental health. If posting on Flightinfo.com has become an unhealthy obsession for you, then I urge you to take advantage of the fine mental health benefits that your husband's employer provides.
• In summation: You have no dog in this fight, you are meddling in other people's affairs, and they have asked you nicely to stop.

Ok, ball's in your court.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I don't believe that NJW is a wife at all. I think its actually a union rep. someone from IBT maybe.

Walsh

You are wrong on all three counts.

 

[Cautious Belly]

Who cares who she is? She doesn't work for Flexjet, nor does she have any stake at Flexjet.

Netjetwife:

I know you've read my previous post and are getting ready to reply with what you think Flexjet pilots ought to do, and why wouldn't they want representation, and I'm just trying to help and why wouldn't they want this or that contract compensation protection blah blah blah. Before you type that, let me reiterate:

Nothing you say about Flexjet, or Flexjet employees is valid, relevant, or welcome. By incessantly posting about something you have no stake in, you are meddling in the interests of people who DO have a stake in the company. You are meddling in my interests. You are meddling in my family's interests. Your opinions here don't matter, we are capable of making up our own minds, and we don't want to hear from you again.

 

[choppengruven]

It's called the first amendment. Everyone has the right to an opinion and the right to voice it. Speaking of offensive, has a moderator seen your Avatar yet? I'm sure this family you speak of is very proud of your publicly degrading females in all areas including nudity on a public board. You are a true hippocrit. You wish to express your veiws of nude women in a public place all the while trying to suppress someone elses personal views. Please dont come back telling me how your avatar is some kind of special symbol I dont care.

Who cares who she is? She doesn't work for Flexjet, nor does she have any stake at Flexjet.

 

[xpdriver]

Is this the longest post ever?

 

[Freedom]

He is indeed a Hippocrit

And I suppose his come back for his tasteless Avatar in a Professional Pilot setting will be "That its a Work of Art."

We have a few Female Pilots over at Flight Options. Several of them are darn good Aviators. How about showing a little respect for some of my coworkers, before you start singing out your blow hole about others sticking their noses in your business.

Walk the walk.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[Cautious Belly]

It's called the first amendment. Everyone has the right to an opinion and the right to voice it.

"Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

You're claiming my post on a privately-owned website is somehow unconstitutional? Better call the ACLU.

Speaking of offensive, has a moderator seen your Avatar yet? I'm sure this family you speak of is very proud of your publicly degrading females in all areas including nudity on a public board.

An Amazonian warrior is degrading? Au contraire. It's a classical Greek embodiment of feminine power. Hardly as salacious as you claim.

You are a true hippocrit. You wish to express your veiws of nude women in a public place all the while trying to suppress someone elses personal views. Please dont come back telling me how your avatar is some kind of special symbol I dont care.

Ok, I know you don't even really believe what you're saying, and you're trying to make some kind of point. It really falls flat. Try again.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks CG! A few quick points before I get back to my family. Absolutely, I'm a wife and those who are regulars know that. Some I have met in person. Aviation is an industry where an event in one company can easily affect another--that does give me a vested interest. I've made numerous posts in support of pilots' advisory councils---PAC at Avantair and CAB at Flex. I've expressed encouragement for whatever works, while saying that the Union seems to have the best results for a written contract. I do recognize that some don't agree with my posts and I invite them to use the ignore function. It strikes me as odd that you want to silence me instead of exercising your right to ignore me.

 

[netjetwife]

Sorry my family is waiting. It will have to be addressed later. I had tried to say something out of respect that you appeared to be waiting for an answer.