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Netjets or Flexjets?

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Wow this is as good as watching the old fights between the Majors and the Regional guys LOL. As I said before you cant go wrong going to NJA, Flex or CS.

Bailey
 
I know of a few pilots who left flex for netjets. Last I heard they were very happy with their choice. The only compalint is that they miss the Lear. ( both are U boat captains now ) Im not sure if ther are any pilots who left nja for flex though. I was offered employement at both and chose netjets. Im sure glad I did. But thats just me. Im sure flex is a fine company to work for.
 
Hi!

I know a guy at FlexJet out of DFW. He likes it a lot.

I would love to have a 7/7 (or even a 14/14) schedule. 7 days on would be a lot less than many of my duty segment lengths (I'm currently on a 9 day now). I have even had a number of duty segments over 14. I think about 25 days in a row was my longest (no, actually 45 was my longest, but that was military, so I guess it doesn't count here).

The biggest advantage would be getting 1/2 your days off-wow!

cliff
YIP

I know of guys going to NWA because the quality of life is a LOT better than their current job.
 
Can any netjets guys clarify the schedules for me?? I keep reading that a "portion" of pilots get 7/7, the others get 12 days off. I assume 7/7 is the more senior choice. Is that right? Does it take long to get a 7/7 schedule?
Thanks!
Ohh yeah, one more question. Are you hired for a specific base or do you bid for it? Which bases are junior/senior?
 
Melfly said:
Can any netjets guys clarify the schedules for me?? I keep reading that a "portion" of pilots get 7/7, the others get 12 days off. I assume 7/7 is the more senior choice. Is that right? Does it take long to get a 7/7 schedule?
Thanks!
Ohh yeah, one more question. Are you hired for a specific base or do you bid for it? Which bases are junior/senior?
Click to expand...

There is 7/7 and there is "reserve". In the airline world, reserve is for the junior guys. In the NJ world, since reserve is less days off ( more days available), they pay the reserves more. If you want 7/7 schedule, dont worry, should be available....I got it out of indoc, and I didnt even bid.

When hired, you are offered the job and assigned (or choose) a airplane type. I think now, if you get hired into CMH, you can bid DAL (or whatever domiciles).

Does this help?
 
skiandsurf said:
There is 7/7 and there is "reserve". In the airline world, reserve is for the junior guys. In the NJ world, since reserve is less days off ( more days available), they pay the reserves more. If you want 7/7 schedule, dont worry, should be available....I got it out of indoc, and I didnt even bid.

When hired, you are offered the job and assigned (or choose) a airplane type. I think now, if you get hired into CMH, you can bid DAL (or whatever domiciles).

Does this help?
Click to expand...
Yes, this helps. Thanks! I am really only interested in Dallas, just wanted to make sure it would be available.
Thanks Again.
 
Per the Domicile LOA, the company has to make the domicile openings available to the pilots on the seniority list first. So yes, from the domicile city you are hired into you can bid for another as long as you match the seat/fleet needed. There are some stings attached, though. So it's best to read that section of the contract and the accompanying Domicile LOA to make sure you know what you're getting into. It's also your responsibility to keep up with the openings. You have to pay close attention to when the bids come out. If ya snooze ya lose.

Schedule availability can vary from fleet to fleet, but if S&S is so inclined he can contact the union scheduling committee and get a good idea of availability for the 7&7 in the different fleets.

If there's a method to domicile assigning, I haven't heard of it. But given that there are only 5 to choose from...:rolleyes: one would expect that eventually DAL openings will become available.
Good Luck!
NJW
 
To add to what others have already posted, the company is usually asking applicants what their domicile preference is and seems to be interviewing candidates as their domicile preferences open up. So if you want DAL and indicate that choice, you shouldn't experience a situation in your interview where you'd be told that they are only hiring for TEB or CMH.

As for what has been said about bidding into another domicile, it is by fleet/seat. And if I recall correctly, once you bid into a new domicile, you are locked into that city for 2 years. There is a possibility that you can simply swap domiciles with another pilot, but they must be in the same fleet/seat as you are.
 
My sim partner was a flex guy. He said he was tired of the working conditions and decided to come to netjets. I've since met a flew flex guys and they liked working there.. I think netjets would be your best bet, but either way it's better then working at the airlines.
 
I'm a 7 year Cpt at NJA. If you want 7/7, you will get it. As a matter of fact, as intimated earlier, the most senior pilots usually bid reserve because of the better pay. So don't worry..7/7 is available to almost all. However, when you're in training for a new fleet or new to a fleet (ie you bid a new a/c) you will be reserve for at least a quarter. But that's no biggie.. before you know it, you're on 7/7.
I can say that as a 7 year Cpt here, it's pretty good. I get 3 weeks of vacation (9 weeks really), choice of most airplanes (minus the DA200EZ, BBJ and GIV/V) and a nice type of flying. Of course, I'm not sure how it is for the newbies but you won't be a newbie forever.
 
I will speak as a newbie. After training I was on the reserve for 3 months. I would have been able to get 7/7, but my class missed the bid period by a day. The reserve wasn't that bad, but like hydrakt said, reserve does go senior so enjoy the $$ while you're training..
 
NJA looks better, right now....

I've been at flex long enough to see how things work. Radial, if I were you I would go with NJA. There have been several people who have left Flex to go work at NJA and do not regret their decision. In fact one I know of was a 6 year captain at Flex. The upgrade time is a bit longer, but the pay is much better from the start and you have union protection of your job.

Flex is saying upgrade times are under 2 years, which is untrue. I know some guys who have been here over two years who are still "playing captain" and flying as FO. The under two year upgrade is Flex propaganda!

Bailey, they must have had a really lousy deal at Indy if you get more days off here. I know a lot of airline guys that have a much better deal than Flex offers. Not to mention when your on home reserve you have a much longer callout time than 90 minutes. You know where your going, who you will be flying with, and when you are going to be home. Granted none of the fractionals can offer this, but it seems that there is a bit more predictability with NJA than Flex.

911lil, medical insurance at Flex is a joke. The employee deduction is about $3500/yr plus a $5000 out of pocket co-pay. This is the worst medical insurance I have had at any company be it aviation or otherwise. I think even Wal-Mart does better by it's employees in regards to insurance. The insurance isn't a Flex thing, but it is company wide, all Bombardier employees get the same shaft up the ass. Where as NJA, insurance is paid in full by the company. Union dues are paid at about 1.5% of annual salary at NJA someone told me, which is less than $3500 a year for insurance.

The vision program is also a joke. I was going to have to pay about $300 for a normal pair of glasses with this plan!

Club ORD FO, I don't think you've been at Flex very long because that nice
"smaller company" atmosphere is a smoke screen. Give the schedulers time to FYO and they will. They will call you at 3:00am after you've been asleep for about 3 hours thinking you're not out until noon the next day and want you to fly across the country to cover a trip from SFO to LAX and your sitting in PWK! Then there is the deal where they want you to fly up to the 14 hours scheduled and your know if any owners are late you will go over 14. Then you get to the last leg and there is no way you are going to stay in the duty time and end up doing 16 hours of duty so you won't disappoint the owners. All because of this "nice" atmosphere. I think you "should" take pride in your company and work to make it the GREAT company it should be.

be-400xp, I agree with you I think all of these Indy guys need to just to keep drinking the company koolaid. The sad thing is that only about 47 people at Flex have sent in cards to the union out of almost 400 pilots. Sad but true.

Management at Flex promised a long time ago that we would always get better than NJA, but apparently they have selective memory of that promise because we are treated like an inferior professional when compared to NJA pilots.

The bottom line is this, if good men do nothing to change things at Flex soon there will be nothing good to change.
 
Imissmypilot said:
I've been at flex long enough to see how things work. Radial, if I were you I would go with NJA. There have been several people who have left Flex to go work at NJA and do not regret their decision. In fact one I know of was a 6 year captain at Flex. The upgrade time is a bit longer, but the pay is much better from the start and you have union protection of your job.

Flex is saying upgrade times are under 2 years, which is untrue. I know some guys who have been here over two years who are still "playing captain" and flying as FO. The under two year upgrade is Flex propaganda!

Bailey, they must have had a really lousy deal at Indy if you get more days off here. I know a lot of airline guys that have a much better deal than Flex offers. Not to mention when your on home reserve you have a much longer callout time than 90 minutes. You know where your going, who you will be flying with, and when you are going to be home. Granted none of the fractionals can offer this, but it seems that there is a bit more predictability with NJA than Flex.

911lil, medical insurance at Flex is a joke. The employee deduction is about $3500/yr plus a $5000 out of pocket co-pay. This is the worst medical insurance I have had at any company be it aviation or otherwise. I think even Wal-Mart does better by it's employees in regards to insurance. The insurance isn't a Flex thing, but it is company wide, all Bombardier employees get the same shaft up the ass. Where as NJA, insurance is paid in full by the company. Union dues are paid at about 1.5% of annual salary at NJA someone told me, which is less than $3500 a year for insurance.

The vision program is also a joke. I was going to have to pay about $300 for a normal pair of glasses with this plan!

Club ORD FO, I don't think you've been at Flex very long because that nice
"smaller company" atmosphere is a smoke screen. Give the schedulers time to FYO and they will. They will call you at 3:00am after you've been asleep for about 3 hours thinking you're not out until noon the next day and want you to fly across the country to cover a trip from SFO to LAX and your sitting in PWK! Then there is the deal where they want you to fly up to the 14 hours scheduled and your know if any owners are late you will go over 14. Then you get to the last leg and there is no way you are going to stay in the duty time and end up doing 16 hours of duty so you won't disappoint the owners. All because of this "nice" atmosphere. I think you "should" take pride in your company and work to make it the GREAT company it should be.

be-400xp, I agree with you I think all of these Indy guys need to just to keep drinking the company koolaid. The sad thing is that only about 47 people at Flex have sent in cards to the union out of almost 400 pilots. Sad but true.

Management at Flex promised a long time ago that we would always get better than NJA, but apparently they have selective memory of that promise because we are treated like an inferior professional when compared to NJA pilots.

The bottom line is this, if good men do nothing to change things at Flex soon there will be nothing good to change.
Click to expand...


JUST LEAVE
 
Imissmypilot said:
Flex is saying upgrade times are under 2 years, which is untrue. I know some guys who have been here over two years who are still "playing captain" and flying as FO. The under two year upgrade is Flex propaganda!
Click to expand...

The some of the guys "playing captain" and flying as FO's chose to do so, ie. voluntary seatlock for equipment transition. Upgrade times WERE running two years. I would suspect that NOW will be more like 3-4 years.
 
I disagree. We were just informed that we'll be receiving 7 airplanes before the end of this year. Upgrade time will hover right at 2 years and change.
 
Imissmypilot said:
Bailey, they must have had a really lousy deal at Indy if you get more days off here. I know a lot of airline guys that have a much better deal than Flex offers. Not to mention when your on home reserve you have a much longer callout time than 90 minutes. You know where your going, who you will be flying with, and when you are going to be home. Granted none of the fractionals can offer this, but it seems that there is a bit more predictability with NJA than Flex.
Click to expand...

At Indy the best I ever did was 13 days off a month with 4-5 day trips. I enjoy the fact I dont know where I am going or who I will be flying with also. At the airlines if you had someone you could not stand you could be stuck with them for 30 days but at Flex if I cant stand you it could only be a day at worse 6 then I dont have to worry about you anymore. Also on Reserve at the airlines we only got 2 hour call out, so we only got 30 more mins then we have here.
Now by your attitude you sound lilke some one who feels like you got the shaft by Flex, but yet when some one like ORD FO, Walsh or anyone else tries to speak on good terms of the company we are bashed as some tree hugging, gay loving, terrorist supporting, Kool Aid drinking, Stupid Liberal. Why is that? Karl Rove helping you with yoru posts? LOL

Bailey
 
if you have to ask, then you would be better at Flexjet. There is no way you can compare the two.

Flexjets parent company is in the business to make planes. Not to rule the fractional industry.

Netjets is in the Fractional business.

Pilots at Netjets are together and strong.

Flexjets pilots, well, they are Flexjets pilots.
 
NETFLIER said:
Netjets is in the Fractional business.
Click to expand...
I thought the Net jet parent company is in business to make a profit? Rumor has it, old Warren is gettin' tired of handing out 20s to his read-headed step-child.
 
jonjuan said:
I thought the Net jet parent company is in business to make a profit? Rumor has it, old Warren is gettin' tired of handing out 20s to his read-headed step-child.
Click to expand...

Jonjon, Get your facts straight then post.

As for Flex or NJA, do whatever your gut is telling you to do.
 
Is there a specific website to go to to apply for Flex Jet jobs? Are they even hiring right now? I know that NJ is. Any other information would be great.

OMG
 
I don't think the upgrade time of 3-5 years at NJA is accurate. I was hired in Feb and have 320 pilots junior to me already, with 2 classes scheduled per month indefinately. Also, there will be some significant attrition here after the first of the year with the second payout of the signing bonus.
I've been looking at the numbers and I conclude 2-3 years for an upgrade if one is willing to take the first A/C available. I met a SIC last tour who just finished his second year with NJA. He said he missed an upgrade slot by one number.
 
OMG7778 said:
Is there a specific website to go to to apply for Flex Jet jobs? Are they even hiring right now? I know that NJ is. Any other information would be great.

OMG
Click to expand...

Flex just hired approximately 15-18 and per HR they have all the pilots they need until early next year.
 
911lil said:
Why will there be attrition starting?
Click to expand...

The word is that somewhere between 400 and 0 pilots will be leaving after the payout of the second signing bonus. These are guys who came here to fly a couple years and then retire, but decided to stick around for the contract fight and the signing bonus payout. Now are these numbers accurate?? That is the fifty dollar question, however if I was a betting man, and I have been known to bet from time to time, I would say the number is somewhere around 200, with more over the next year or so. I personally know around 20 who are gone in the new year.

Time will tell.
 
Imissmypilot said:
Club ORD FO, I don't think you've been at Flex very long because that nice
"smaller company" atmosphere is a smoke screen. Give the schedulers time to FYO and they will. They will call you at 3:00am after you've been asleep for about 3 hours thinking you're not out until noon the next day and want you to fly across the country to cover a trip from SFO to LAX and your sitting in PWK! Then there is the deal where they want you to fly up to the 14 hours scheduled and your know if any owners are late you will go over 14. Then you get to the last leg and there is no way you are going to stay in the duty time and end up doing 16 hours of duty so you won't disappoint the owners. All because of this "nice" atmosphere. I think you "should" take pride in your company and work to make it the GREAT company it should be.
Click to expand...

Well this I just have to comment on... yeah I am new here. Yes, maybe I have not been here long enough, or worked a busy season yet, to know how bad it can get. I am curious what other properties you have flown for? I am getting screwed over a hell of a lot less here than at ACA/Independence, which was considered to be one of the best places to work for a pilot. Try flying in and out of ORD all day long and see how many times a thunderstorm turns your day into 15 hours followed by 8 hours of "rest" at a comfort inn. And airline reserve is a hell of a lot worse than our "reserve" Think airport standby, a lot of airport standyby...and not in a cushy signature FBO.

So, comparing this new gig to my old airline job, I work a hell of a lot less and sleep a hell of a lot more. And I got a rasie after being an FO for 5 years. The only thing I miss is not knowing what time the phone is going to ring, which means I can not easily plan a sightseeing trip anywhere I go.

But, with all that said, yeah I think a few changes are in order (Gateways Rick!!!) but I at least feel like they are working towards a solution. Being new, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Perhaps a year from now I'll be singing a different tune, we'll see.... In all fairness I did, like many independence guys here, apply to NJ first but got turned down. When you look at the two on paper, NJ pay and benefits made it an easy choice. But the interview process made me glad that NJ tunred me down. Totally different attitudes.... So now I am at a company I enjoy working for. I think/hope the compensation will catch up to NJ. once again, we'll see...
 
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