AA announces recall

[satpak77]

wonder how many ex AA'ers are at SWA or JBLU? CAL?

I don't work at any of the above, but sitting on the sidelines, leaving those companies to go back to AA seems like a huge dice roll.

 

[B6Driver]

Good news for everybody. I wonder how large a stampede from the LCC's (JB, Airtran, etc..) will be?

Zero if not close to it.

 

[Gorilla]

As mentioned, a modest number of FO's have quit. A 15 year FO will walk away with a B-fund valued at ~$200,000... a nice wad of cash for a house, or some action in Las Vegas. Most of those who've quit have something on the side, like real estate, and are going to another carrier as well. Abuse AMR, I don't care, but we still have a kick-butt retirement, and that will keep guys hanging on.

I think the recall/turndown ratio will be more like 5:1, 5 bypasses for every acceptance. So the 10/month will really go through 50. That's just my guess. Unfortunately that means several more years before they get through the list, but I'll bet the 10/month will change quickly.

 

[pkober]

It's good to see some people will return to work. I wish them luck.

Does the "s%^t sandwich" (AA term) Supp CC require all TWA'ers to be recalled to STL?

 

[instructordude]

wonder how many ex AA'ers are at SWA or JBLU? CAL?

I don't work at any of the above, but sitting on the sidelines, leaving those companies to go back to AA seems like a huge dice roll.

Lonely over there isn't it?

 

[mosdef]

Does AA have a longevity clause or do go back to the pay scale you left at?

 

[AA717driver]

pkober--No. Needs of the service. You can bid to STL whenever--if you don't have any reinstatement rights, there's nothing stopping you.

mosdef--There is no longevity for pay accrued while on furlough.

Gorilla--You're right about the retirement. That's been the carrot that's kept AA pilots putting up with all the B.S. over the years.

But how long will it last? How much will APA have to give up over the years to keep it? I would rather have the option to transition to a self-directed plan that is cheaper for AA and safer for me. I'd hate to spend the next 12 years looking over my shoulder "hoping" the A plan sticks around. JMO.TC

P.S.--Someone mentioned age 65. I think AMR knows it's coming and they waited as absolutely long as they could before starting to recall at this minimal number.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Good analysis....

pkober--No. Needs of the service. You can bid to STL whenever--if you don't have any reinstatement rights, there's nothing stopping you.

mosdef--There is no longevity for pay accrued while on furlough.

Gorilla--You're right about the retirement. That's been the carrot that's kept AA pilots putting up with all the B.S. over the years.

But how long will it last? How much will APA have to give up over the years to keep it? I would rather have the option to transition to a self-directed plan that is cheaper for AA and safer for me. I'd hate to spend the next 12 years looking over my shoulder "hoping" the A plan sticks around. JMO.TC

P.S.--Someone mentioned age 65. I think AMR knows it's coming and they waited as absolutely long as they could before starting to recall at this minimal number.

-All the fences have come down as far as bases. It's needs of the company which is more efficient for the company and better for the pilot group.

-Longevity: seniority is frozen when furloughed and starts again upon return. After the furlough of the early 1990s, the pilots returned as stated above, but with the fisrt contract (1994 or 1995) the pilots received credit for their furlough time. Some went from 2 -3 yr. pay to 5 -6 yr. pay. That was quite a jump back then as the 5 yr. mark was a bigger increase in the pay scale. I doubt that will happen this time around with the furloughees as there are so many and it is a different time in the industry.

Retirement: That is probably the biggest carrot to return to AMR. I agree with TC, it would be better to freeze the current plan and start with a Direct Account Plan (DAP) type of retirement. The would take the concern of loosing the retirement or being at the mercy of the company vs. having the money in your own, untouchable, plan.

Recall delays: Age 65 is a factor that must be in play at Center Pork IV. Plus, they shrink the company on the short term to have less expenses, show a profit and reward all the upper- and mid-level management types. It's the AAmerican dream.

 

[Uniform Shop]

It's the AAmerican dream.

With all that time you've been spending on your boat it really has been the American dream. Or is that the Allegiant dream? One of those anyway.

I find it's better to work for as many airlines and fly as many airplanes as you can so you can really tone those flying skills. :nuts:

 

[satpak77]

Lonely over there isn't it?

what are you? stalking me?

moron

 

[yaks]

"Anyone that goes back to AA from one of those jobs should be summarily dismissed on psychological grounds."

PIPE

From union message board:

"I am a trapped member of the furloughed masses at an ‘inset name here’ low cost carrier with the word “blue” in the title.

No real contract or work rules exist and abysmal wages prevail.

I am young, and although the first if any responses to this thread will likely be; “get out and switch careers” or “stop flying for peanuts you are bringing us down” I would like to avoid this discussion of the obvious in exchange for this line of thought if only for a moment.

If I ever have the opportunity to accept a recall from AA, it will benefit me to do so almost immediately from a wage, and career earning potential perspective.

I will accept this recall if offered. In short, I am in waiting. Enough said"

and:

"I look forward to the day when I get the phone call/letter/email or whatever to come back to AA."


PIPE,

There is your answer. I too work at an LCC and believe me, the job isn't as good.

 

[pipe]

"Anyone that goes back to AA from one of those jobs should be summarily dismissed on psychological grounds."

PIPE

From union message board:

"I am a trapped member of the furloughed masses at an ‘inset name here’ low cost carrier with the word “blue” in the title.

No real contract or work rules exist and abysmal wages prevail.

I am young, and although the first if any responses to this thread will likely be; “get out and switch careers” or “stop flying for peanuts you are bringing us down” I would like to avoid this discussion of the obvious in exchange for this line of thought if only for a moment.

If I ever have the opportunity to accept a recall from AA, it will benefit me to do so almost immediately from a wage, and career earning potential perspective.

I will accept this recall if offered. In short, I am in waiting. Enough said"

and:

"I look forward to the day when I get the phone call/letter/email or whatever to come back to AA."


PIPE,

There is your answer. I too work at an LCC and believe me, the job isn't as good.

Okay. I shouldn't have said "anyone". If it's better for you, it's better for you. I hope that I am senior to you at AA so that my "pass" will get you there sooner. Best of luck.

PIPE

 

[FreightGod]

Going back to AA will be a huge step back for many. Kind of risky going back to a company that is so repressive and cares so little about its employees.

Try flying for a non-sced with no contract, no work rules, shoddy maintenance and 40 hour duty days with low pay.

AA does not look too bad then, I will pick up the phone when it rings.

 

[jwadtw]

I was stunned at how quickly Northwest got to me when they started recalling. I was about 400 from the top of the list and they got to me trying to fill their first 50 recall positions.

We have a 30/60/90 day deferral option and I took the 90 day deferral. I didn't want to throw away my current job, which pays the bills and provides benefits, for NWA after they recalled and then re-furloughed last year.

It's working out to be a pretty good recall system, allowing pilots who are on the street or in a really bad job to go back, while others who are fairly secure can hold back for a little more seniority and future furlough protection, or take an alternate career path altogether.

I did learn to look out for number one, because no one else is. Good luck to all!

 

[instructordude]

what are you? stalking me?

moron

No I agree with you and was saying that you and I are in the same boat, that is the sidelines. I want in the game now.

 

[PHX767]

<Larry the cable guy voice>

Let's see here.

Take a recall and be the bottom feeder in LGA, have a 2 hop commute to pull 19 days of reserve, at 2nd year pay to be a co pilot for life?

or,

Just put my weenie in a meat grinder?


:nuts:


I'd rather work somewhere with a good upgrade time, a positive attitude toward employees, and had a junior base out here on the left side of the country.

 

[glasspilot1]

40 hour duty days with low pay.

That's a long day!

 

[Clavin]

No I agree with you and was saying that you and I are in the same boat, that is the sidelines. I want in the game now.

Then get a haircut and wipe that stupid grin off your face.

Disregard if your avatar is not your actual picture.

But I suppose I would be wasting my time trying to talk you out of this silly profession.

 

[steveg]

"I'd rather work somewhere with a good upgrade time, a positive attitude toward employees, and had a junior base out here on the left side of the country."

Yeah me too. And I thought I had until some genious in managemt thought USAir was salvageable.

And now, I am in the same seniority and whose the better pilot argument AGAIN. Management wants pay cuts while they get bonuses AGAIN. I'm worried about getting displaced and having to move my family cross country AGAIN. I'm stuck with no movement on reserve AGAIN. Cursing myself for ever getting involved with this career AGAIN. Disgusted with my so called union and what little they have done for me (actually harmed me) AGAIN!

Seriously though, what else can I do for 60K a year with little training? No flame, I've been looking and would love to find something else. Otherwise, what is the difference between aa and every other crappy airline job? At least aa pays more than what I do now, at least until their next contract. It's really pathetic, but aa is the evil you know. aaa is the evil that is just beginning to rear it's ugly head.

A final thought, Doug Parker = ?. Icahn was too stupid, Lorenzo too greedy. Who else? Doug has most of the employees snowed, could he be the ultimate?

 

[AA717driver]

Steve--At least you have already gotten the ALPA screwing out of the way at AA. At AAA, it's still out there...

I'm bypassing so you can get recalled one number earlier. TC

 

[AvroGuy]

Kind of risky going back to a company that is so repressive and cares so little about its employees.

I thought we were talking about AA and not NWA.

 

[Big Slick]

Hey InstructorDude (Future Airline Pilot),

You are exactly the kind of person who is ruining this industry. Someday, you'll be excited to fly a Virgin America A320 for $80k max captain pay, crappy work rules and no retirement. Once enough pilots like you take those jobs, all the rest of us will have to take another round of paycuts.

Why don't you take all that youthful energy and go to law school?
Why are you posting on here with 850+ bug smasher hours anyway?

Most of the folks on this forum are old and only have one job skill - flying. So, we are basically stuck in this f-ed up industry. Don't you read anything that is posted on here?

Come to your senses now, before you are $50,000 in debt for your ratings. After that, you will be stuck just like the rest of us.

I honestly don't get people like you.

 

[instructordude]

Hey InstructorDude (Future Airline Pilot),

You are exactly the kind of person who is ruining this industry. Someday, you'll be excited to fly a Virgin America A320 for $80k max captain pay, crappy work rules and no retirement. Once enough pilots like you take those jobs, all the rest of us will have to take another round of paycuts.

I'm not ruining anything. And no, I would not be interested in making only 80K at Virgin. 100K and we got a deal though. That is some serious cash.

Why don't you take all that youthful energy and go to law school?

I need to graduate from college first. I ain't exactly law school material anyway.

Why are you posting on here with 850+ bug smasher hours anyway?

I need to update my profile. I've got 2000+ now.

You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

 

[Clavin]

I need to update my profile. I've got 2000+ now.

but seriously, update that picture too. Looks like it could be one half of a gay Thelma and Louise movie.

 

[instructordude]

but seriously, update that picture too. Looks like it could be one half of a gay Thelma and Louise movie.

That picture is how I look when I bring up throttles to max power on takeoff.

 

[HA25]

Hey InstructorDude (Future Airline Pilot),



I'm not ruining anything. And no, I would not be interested in making only 80K at Virgin. 100K and we got a deal though. That is some serious cash.

I'm making $155,000 plus 10% bonus at my current (non-pilot) job and TRUST me.. it's not that serious.. I've got a middle/upper middle class home in Phoenix, a wife and two little kids.. between their expenses, the mortgage, and the car payment, I've got hardly $1000 per month to save for the day I retire.

$100K/yr works out to (after taxes) about $6200/month.. with the average home costing $500-600K in most parts of the country where you don't get lynched or mugged going outside, and rates at 6.5% and climbing, you're looking at $3000/month with 20% down, if you've only got 5% down, now you're well north of $3500/mo for your mortgage.. add to that a $500/600 month car payment (typical $30K car).. insurance, bills, unexpected expenses, food, etc... you're not at $6000/mo... this is before the vacation, or private school for you kid who's too smart for the local public schools..

And you think flying a $230M 747 20+ days a month is worth that? I've got a friend who's a bottom dweller corporate lawyer for U-Haul and he pulls down $150,000 salary, and another friend who's a computer engineer (low level), and he's drawing $165,000 working as a project engineer at Intel. I'm making my money working less than 40/hrs a week managing commercial real estate.. get real dude... $100K a year is lower middle class wages these days.. And forget about all of that if you're living in California, NY, NJ or any other coastal major cities!

If your attitude is typical of the "future" airline pilots, they maybe I need to forget about returning to American...

 

[instructordude]

I'm making $155,000 plus 10% bonus at my current (non-pilot) job and TRUST me.. it's not that serious.. I've got a middle/upper middle class home in Phoenix, a wife and two little kids.. between their expenses, the mortgage, and the car payment, I've got hardly $1000 per month to save for the day I retire.

$100K/yr works out to (after taxes) about $6200/month.. with the average home costing $500-600K in most parts of the country where you don't get lynched or mugged going outside, and rates at 6.5% and climbing, you're looking at $3000/month with 20% down, if you've only got 5% down, now you're well north of $3500/mo for your mortgage.. add to that a $500/600 month car payment (typical $30K car).. insurance, bills, unexpected expenses, food, etc... you're not at $6000/mo... this is before the vacation, or private school for you kid who's too smart for the local public schools..

And you think flying a $230M 747 20+ days a month is worth that? I've got a friend who's a bottom dweller corporate lawyer for U-Haul and he pulls down $150,000 salary, and another friend who's a computer engineer (low level), and he's drawing $165,000 working as a project engineer at Intel. I'm making my money working less than 40/hrs a week managing commercial real estate.. get real dude... $100K a year is lower middle class wages these days.. And forget about all of that if you're living in California, NY, NJ or any other coastal major cities!

If your attitude is typical of the "future" airline pilots, they maybe I need to forget about returning to American...

I heard the average middle class wage was around 45K? I guess it depends on your spending habits. For a single guy though, 100 K is alot.

Typical month of spending for a single guy:

Mortgage : 1500
Food: 500
IROC costs: 750
Strip clubs 1000
Beer 100
Utiliites 300

Total cost: $4150

That leaves 2000 left over for the wife and kids if you got them. Not bad at all.

 

[Fins Up]

That picture is how I look when I bring up throttles to max power on takeoff.

With that haircut and driving an IROC, you must pick up a lot chicks cruising the mall parking lot.

(just kidding around here)

 

[instructordude]

With that haircut and driving an IROC, you must pick up a lot chicks cruising the mall parking lot.

(just kidding around here)

I had some check airman guy tell me to get it cut. In the back of my head I was like what ever buddy.

I do well with the chicks though.

 

[Fallingbrick]

I heard the average middle class wage was around 45K? I guess it depends on your spending habits. For a single guy though, 100 K is alot.

Typical month of spending for a single guy:

Mortgage : 1500 :laugh:
Food: 500
IROC costs: 750
Strip clubs 1000 (At least you have your priorities straight.)
Beer 100
Utiliites 300

Total cost: $4150

That leaves 2000 left over for the wife and kids if you got them. Not bad at all.

Thanks man! This is great. :beer: