You'll be moved...

[NJAowner]

To be fair and honest, I left before the Red Label became a selling point (though it was discussed). After the FX-FLOPS merger was announced. I did have some previous card experience with FX and liked the service - but as far as a share was concerned wasn't keen on having to buy a new share every 5-7 years (as opposed to rolling over). Personally - I would gladly fly on a 9 year old jet if I did not have to pony up $$ for a new share (and still ride the 6-7 years old jets). That was a big down point of FX and Red Label brings it back.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

What difference does it make what aircraft you are assigned to when they are all identical cockpit door forward?

I'll tell you one thing that I do not like about the dedicated crewing at the old Flight Options and that was the willingness of certain(FOK) pilots to carry write-ups. One plane had STBY instruments that would not all power up on the STBY battery and that same plane would not start the left engine first(not good in the dual flameout scenario). They tried to label me a "troublemaker". I really do not want this company to return to those days.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

You options pilots are the biggest bunch of miserable c@&ksuckers I've ever worked with. You hate it so much, fricking quit!!!!! I just don't understand in this job market why you would stick around if you hate it so much. You're not ever going to change KR's way of doing business. There's only so many things you control in life and that ain't one of them. You guys need to get drunk, laid and a new job.

Sorry Brit, I'm not going away. This company has lots of potential but sometimes our leaders just need a little guidance. As for you, if you can't get along with the rest of us, how about you go away?

 

[NJAowner]

Dumb question -- if it is dedicated crewing, what if you are not nuts about the co-workers you will be spending a good bit of the next 5 years with. Almost like being, married to them?? Also, based upon the NTSB report I read on the BED G-IV incident, I would weigh the "safety gain" of a dedicated crew against the "safety risk" of a complacent team working together for too long. Pros and cons to both.

At the end of the day it came down to a few factors to move back - (1) Recovery times and peak day flights -- big problems for FLOPs and got worse after getting FX (and according to my friends on FX still an issue) - we were moved 3 hours on practically every peak day and waited many, many hours for recovery flights when needed, (2) care of the asset - the brand new Phenoms were looking like crap after less than 1 year -- FLOPS just doesn't keep them up as nicely as NJ and, I know it was only appearances, but made me wonder about the stuff I could not see, and (3) how they treat the pilots (not because I am such a nice guy - which I am - but I believe better hotels mean better sleep - better sleep means hopefully a safer flight). In some locales I knew where NJ put up the pilots for the night and the FLOPs pilots were nt put up in the same (or even similar hotels).

 

[dime line]

I'll tell you one thing that I do not like about the dedicated crewing at the old Flight Options and that was the willingness of certain(FOK) pilots to carry write-ups. One plane had STBY instruments that would not all power up on the STBY battery and that same plane would not start the left engine first(not good in the dual flameout scenario). They tried to label me a "troublemaker". I really do not want this company to return to those days.

Remember the dumbazz that use to manually put the gear down in the Challenger for quite a long time, he was dedicated crew. Dedicated Crewing isn't safer here at FLOPS its a scam to pit pilots against pilots.
Kinda like the company questioned why FLOPS has more Fatigue calls than FLEX, ......well turns out FLEX is paid double or something over 12 hrs, so your paid well to fly tired and move the plane anyway.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Remember the dumbazz that use to manually put the gear down in the Challenger for quite a long time, he was dedicated crew. Dedicated Crewing isn't safer here at FLOPS its a scam to pit pilots against pilots.
Kinda like the company questioned why FLOPS has more Fatigue calls than FLEX, ......well turns out FLEX is paid double or something over 12 hrs, so your paid well to fly tired and move the plane anyway.

I think the Feds finally figured out what's happening there.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Dumb question -- if it is dedicated crewing, what if you are not nuts about the co-workers you will be spending a good bit of the next 5 years with. Almost like being, married to them?? Also, based upon the NTSB report I read on the BED G-IV incident, I would weigh the "safety gain" of a dedicated crew against the "safety risk" of a complacent team working together for too long. Pros and cons to both.

At the end of the day it came down to a few factors to move back - (1) Recovery times and peak day flights -- big problems for FLOPs and got worse after getting FX (and according to my friends on FX still an issue) - we were moved 3 hours on practically every peak day and waited many, many hours for recovery flights when needed, (2) care of the asset - the brand new Phenoms were looking like crap after less than 1 year -- FLOPS just doesn't keep them up as nicely as NJ and, I know it was only appearances, but made me wonder about the stuff I could not see, and (3) how they treat the pilots (not because I am such a nice guy - which I am - but I believe better hotels mean better sleep - better sleep means hopefully a safer flight). In some locales I knew where NJ put up the pilots for the night and the FLOPs pilots were nt put up in the same (or even similar hotels).

The complacency thing got broken long ago at Options. As for the new culture Kenn is trying to implement, it's up to the Flex pilots to not let that mindset take hold.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Dumb question -- if it is dedicated crewing, what if you are not nuts about the co-workers you will be spending a good bit of the next 5 years with. Almost like being, married to them?? Also, based upon the NTSB report I read on the BED G-IV incident, I would weigh the "safety gain" of a dedicated crew against the "safety risk" of a complacent team working together for too long. Pros and cons to both.

The domestic red label is technically dedicated captain. The first officers are just regular old fashioned line pilots who get assigned to the airplane the same way they always have. But with that said, often times two of the dedicated captains will fly with each other for a day or two at the beginning or the end of a rotation. Those three dedicated pilots all agree to work with each other, so theoretically you would only sign up for an airplane with two other people you know you get along with.

The international red label is 100% dedicated crew. What is it, 5 per airplane? all captains, who set their own schedule amongst their group to make sure there are always two pilots scheduled to be in the seats. The manager of the airplane can pick and choose pilots to join his/her group, so once again you theoretically would pick people you get along with.

 

[jonjuan]

.........................

 

[993_Pilot]

You options pilots are the biggest bunch of miserable c@&ksuckers I've ever worked with. You hate it so much, fricking quit!!!!! I just don't understand in this job market why you would stick around if you hate it so much. You're not ever going to change KR's way of doing business. There's only so many things you control in life and that ain't one of them. You guys need to get drunk, laid and a new job.

Up tight much? ... I would say that you're the one that needs to rub one off. The rest of us generally enjoy our job, like where we live and/or prefer a company provided commute, and would rather fight to improve the rest of the working conditions. Keep in mind that if nobody fought for the working conditions at other places, they wouldn't be any better either.

Dumb question -- if it is dedicated crewing, what if you are not nuts about the co-workers you will be spending a good bit of the next 5 years with. Almost like being, married to them?? Also, based upon the NTSB report I read on the BED G-IV incident, I would weigh the "safety gain" of a dedicated crew against the "safety risk" of a complacent team working together for too long. Pros and cons to both.

At the end of the day it came down to a few factors to move back - (1) Recovery times and peak day flights -- big problems for FLOPs and got worse after getting FX (and according to my friends on FX still an issue) - we were moved 3 hours on practically every peak day and waited many, many hours for recovery flights when needed, (2) care of the asset - the brand new Phenoms were looking like crap after less than 1 year -- FLOPS just doesn't keep them up as nicely as NJ and, I know it was only appearances, but made me wonder about the stuff I could not see, and (3) how they treat the pilots (not because I am such a nice guy - which I am - but I believe better hotels mean better sleep - better sleep means hopefully a safer flight). In some locales I knew where NJ put up the pilots for the night and the FLOPs pilots were nt put up in the same (or even similar hotels).

Well said. I wish all the consumers of our service would spend the time to educate themselves as well as you. I can only hope that you give some of the same feedback to our sales people, and maybe even more importantly, to Kenn Ricci himself.

 

[shanes123]

Yes NJA owner you should send a open letter to KR on why you left. 100% what we been saying all along. probably won't do any good. He doesn't believe happy, respected, well treated employees give you a better return on his investment and since he has become very wealthy doing it his way. its a tough argument to sell
Another reason why Recovery time at NJ is probably better.
And everything isn't all lovey dovey over at the hand picked dedicated crews they are having lots of issues as hard they try to keep it quiet a lot of it leaks out.