You have GOT to be kidding me....

[SKC]

deleted.

 

[dispatchguy]

The ADF is more of a trade organization which does nothing for the wage gaps or other arcane ailrine industry policies.

Actually, I think that is in their bylaws, to stay out of union-esque stuff.

I dont think a national union is it either.

 

[shooter]

Again, I personally will not bring my years of flying and dispatch experience to an airline and prostitute these skills for $30,000 a year or less to start... I made this abundantly clear(nicely and PC) with each Airline hr rep I spoke with during the hiring process.. This of course is not going to make a difference, but if more people would stand up and do the same, if there were a national Organization/ Union setting standards, then the ball game would be much different as the supply of dispatchers dryied up...

ditto. I like what I do and who I do it for, but this is may last aviation job if airlines dont turn things around. Too much money to made outside this industry to whore myself for the wages they are starting out with. If I retire from here, great. If something happens I'm outa' here.

 

[clr4theapch]

ADF, No way.. But is there an answer?

Actually, I think that is in their bylaws, to stay out of union-esque stuff.

I dont think a national union is it either.

You are correct I am sure... I would NOT expect a group made up of almost entirely senior mainline dispatchers, quite happy with their salaries and the "this is the way things have always been" attitudes.

Why should they care, they got there's! They do good work in other areas of safety and rubbing elbows in DC, I guess, but I just don't hear many changes comming out of their office.

A national union may not be the answer, a single senority list may not be it either, but I think you Might agree that the way things are now is really F.Up with no change in sight..

What do think would make things better for the dispatcher profession and stop the downward spiral of wages, benefits and respect?

 

[airbrush]

What do think would make things better for the dispatcher profession and stop the downward spiral of wages, benefits and respect?

I really wish I knew. At this point in the game, with oil at historic highs (which many forecasters think will continue to increase), the possibility of mergers and/or a recession this year (either of which could put more qualified, experienced people on the street), the traveling public's perception of what air travel should cost, and management's lack of ability or need to pay better wages, I don't know if it will change in time for me to get back in the business. If it takes 10 years at the current pay scales to make a livable wage, then it will take me until my late 50s to get back to what I had when I was 40. I can't afford to put my family through that process.

The unions seem powerless to provide any leverage; just look how effective ALPA has been in stemming the erosion of pilot salaries and work rules. In fact, they seem to inhibit the process, as I have been told by a couple of carriers that they can't offer me anything more for my experience because the union won't allow a "new-hire" to jump so far up the pay scale.

I never wanted to be put in the position of having to choose between doing what I enjoy and feeding my family; I used to be able to do both. I tried a "cubicle job" briefly after I left the airline, and within a month I was going out of my mind with boredom. Still looking for the answer....

 

[shark77]

I doubt much will change unless the supply of dispatchers declines significantly and/or the demand for experience rises.

For me, its been a mixed bag. Over 8 years with the same company, my pay has increased by about 125% in that time. I make a comfortable amount for where I live, so I feel my pay is fair. Especially considering the schedule. But as everyone here knows, if I ever decided to dispatch anywhere else I know my pay would fall in half and that schedule would be gone.

Thats why I do not intend to dispatch anywhere else. Use your experience, go to school, and prostitute the perks of your current job to get somewhere else.

If you are at an airline that has a terrible QOL and you want to dispatch still, make the tough choice and make the move. If you aren't willing to do that then the airline your at doesn't suck enough or you should change careers.

Either way, if you are a competent dispatcher you should be able to do well for yourself if you sit down and are honest about what path you want to take. I just would get my mind off of how to change the industry and start thinking about how you can fix things to work in your individual best interests.

 

[clr4theapch]

All good points by Airbrush and Shark.... Since I was a late starter to dispatch and middle age it was very tough to enter the pay ranks but accepted it at the time. But the QOL was hard on the family and commuting became a hugh problem... So I was forced by the staus quo work rules to leave the profession I loved..
Shark is probably right, I am glad for you in that you are happy where your at and it worked out for you in pay and QOL, I missed that opportunity and now I am too old to really care to start over.. SO Airbrush you might heed Shark advise unless you want to end up like me and out of it.. maybe its too late for you as well..

I still believe that change has to start somewhere, an avalanche starts with just a ball of snow and build with time... The airlines have held our passion over our heads as the means to always have a supply of people "willing to work for anything" when we were young dumb and full of , well you know the rest...
Sooner or later and I hink its already happening to some degree, the 23 year olds are not coming to aviation like they once did because they hear what we talk about all the time and then they see it first hand and leave before they get sucked into the black whole of passion verses a real living and family..

 

[airbrush]

Actually, I have been applying some of Shark77's philosophy....just haven't found the right situation. I'm pretty stubborn about staying in aviation if at all possible (stepped out, HATED IT, came back at lower pay for now), but as noted in my previous posts, I'm fairly pessimistic on changing the airline industry. I think the die has been cast for some years to come, possibly the rest of my career for practical purposes, and I am reluctantly looking elsewhere.

Can anyone comment on life at the fractionals? I know that fuel prices could catch them someday as well, but so far they seem almost immune. I've also got a standing offer to be a ground school/sim instructor (for OK but not outstanding pay) if my wife can deal with moving 1200 miles from family and everything we've known for 20 years. We'll see.

 

[ASA DX]

I am about to hang it up too guys, this profession was the wrong road for me too take. I have 11 years at ASA, (7 in dispatching) and have done everything at this company under the shining sun. When I walk out the door, they will be smiling on the inside b/c they got the next sucker in here doing my job for 6.00 les an hour. Just basic numbers to them. He might not be able to do my job as well as me, or as effeciently as me, or as safe as me...but he will be worth that 6.00 less and hour in their eyes. If I was worth keeping, when my 2 week notice hits the desk..I would expect someone from upper managment trying to coax me into staying. Just a handshake Im sure and not a secong thought about me, and dont let the door hit you in the #$%^ on the way out.

 

[crjdxr]

Random question

Are there any dxr's here that have a merit-pay system or is everyone on a scale?

If you're on a scale, and if your company starts cutting people due to downsizing ("rightsizing"), do you get a severance package? For those that work in union shops, do you have contractual language that covers this stuff?

As you know, Comair (dba Delta's w/o regional beyotch) is "rightsizing" and fewer a/c equals fewer dispatchers. I'm curious to know what other dispatchers at other companies might receive if/when things get "rightsized".

 

[homerjdispatch]

crjdxr.....whered you get that pic? What a view!

 

[crjdxr]

crjdxr.....whered you get that pic? What a view!

It is a nice view, isn't it?

I don't recall where I found that picture. It has been quite some time since I found it. No matter though, the view in that picture is spectacular.

 

[rod guhzhinya]

Pilots, well captains at a minimum, should be required to sit an entire shift in dispatch - make it a part of their recurrent.

We have to sit and spend some time in the flight deck (which I absolutely love to do), they should be required to do the same.

I have been to one airline that required, as a part of upgrade training, that those going through their first upgrade had to spend a shift in dispatch to see the other side of the radio - I fully support that. Makes for great CRM/DRM.

I have also been to other carriers that didnt want pilots in dispatch at all for whatever reason - we were just a voice on the phone or radio, or words on an ACARS printout.

Those pilots who do spend some time in dispatch usually come away with a much greater notion of what we actually do in a 10 hour shift. Make it a bad weather day with a lot of crew reroutes, missed approaches, or BINGO fuel diversions - not those rare days where the airline seems to be on ottopylit

Great idea...when I worked at AirWis, the new hire f/os were required to sit an entire shift with us..and here at Midwest we still do face-to-face briefings with the crews which in my opionion makes the relationship between pilots/dispatcher much better.

 

[rod guhzhinya]

I agree with all point made here, the levels of responsibility are different from a physical point of view no doubt.. but the regs address a different responsibility in 121.533.. and that is what we the dispatchers are talking about.. I would much rather have a truly mutual agreement with my PIC's than have mutual distrust or annoyance... I think we should get paid a % along the same kind of scale as a captain...

Oh yea my fine feathered friends, please dont forget many of us where or are pilots too..

On a another point regarding pay: Consider that the fact that Pilots make up the Largest number of employees on the Payroll and dispatchers are probably the smallest number on the books. If the company were to increase in pay rates a few dollars an hour to the pilots that would be a HUGH hit to the bottom line, whereas the same increase to the dispatchers would be nothing more than a blip on the bean counters spread sheet...

Unlike pilots working there way up the ladder to captains and their pay rates accordingly, dispatchers are pretty much thrown into the fire right after they get comp checked... our responsibility on day one, is the same as it will be the day before we retire ( as far as the regs go) sure we might have the opportunnity to move into a management or ATC or some other similar position down the road, but these positions are few and far between... so we have to wait on scheduled pay increases in some union contract which is many cases really suck...

Anyway, I wont dispatch anymore because of the stupid pay rates, and long if not impossible commutes, I have been interviewed many times in recent years and have nicely made this the point for my turn down and is why I have not returned to the dispatch ranks, having moved to other airline trades. I am just one person doing this, more people must do the same as well as educating the new students out there of the "real" airline world to which they wish to enter, and not believe the school hipe and BS of makeing 6 figures as a dispatcher.. Not going to ever happen kids...

In any case everyone needs to join together on this issue, as long as the company's sees the in-fighting between ranks, they know they have nothing to worry about and can justify anything.. JMHO

Me too, after nearly four years I am outta this dx game in June...going to graduate school and will hopefully get a "real" job so I can get off the food stamps. I bet I will make just as much working part-time during school than I do as a full time dx'er right now!