You guys have me scared

[Flight_Line]

By the way, no one is trying to scare the newbies away. We all come to this board so we can find out as much as we can about the current situation. This industry has its ups and downs. Right now it happens to be in a down. Things will turn around when the economy does.

 

[Wiggums]

xlr857:

If I recall correctly, Pan Am lost their Part 141 certification late last year. They may have gotten it back but that would still make me worry. Do yourself a favor and check out the discussion forums at JetCareers.com You can get to the forums from the menu on the left side.

Good luck, fly safe and have fun.

What a load of crap. What makes me worry is people that report their flight time down to the tenth in their profile.

 

[wingnutt]

ok, im with ya on this one...

...my school assures me there will be no problem with placement in a regional airline.

but then ya lose me here...

...the mystery company with an order for 10 pilots per month is AIRNET.

...did Pan Am tell you Airnet is a regional airline?

 

[LearLove]

xlr857,


Not to be a jerk or anything but first, (if its true) What the F@ck are you thinking plunking down 80 grand and where in the he11 do you come up with that $$$ at 26?

You can do better than that. Try your local FBO. I bet you can do pvt to cfi for less then 8500 while working at the FBO. At the same time going to local college or comm college and getting a BA or BS degree. You can get a BA in a nonaviation subject plus CFI for under 30,000 total. Then you'd have 50000 grand left over to get you thru CFIing and charter.

However I think I'm just waisting time here because I think I smell flame bait.

 

[SpiderMan]

I have a written guarantee if I place in the top 10% percent of my class I am guaranteed a job with an airline no interview nothing.

We got another one. Hook, line, and sinker! Its a sales pitch. You bought it.

 

[enigma]

..................It just pisses me off how it seems some people try to scare newbies away. We all got into this for one reason you love to fly. I dont care if im flat broke Ill be having the time of my life. You only live once.

Management is going to love you. I didn't read any remarks trying to scare you away. I did read some reality. This is a tough, dog-eat-dog business. You will find that management will use your eagerness, they will be happy to let you be flat broke and when you quite having the time of your life, they'll replace you with another person who acts the same way you did the year before.

report back in a couple of years and tell us that you still don't care if you're flat broke.

8N

 

[jetpilotjay]

xlr857,

First of all let me say good luck. Next, be very careful with these big pilot factories. Definetly check out jetcareers.com. It's an excellent website run by a delta F/O. I wish I had known about it before I went where I did. At the time when I went, they had bridge programs. I thought that would be very good, untill 9/11 happened. The sales pitch there was very convincing. I had 300 hrs. when i went there and they said how quick i would be at a regional. The blinders came over my eyes and i thought they were the greatest people ever. BOY WAS I WRONG, strictly out for the money. I wasn't even smart enough to go where at least you leave with a CFI. Luckily I had met a lot of people at my local airport and made a lot of good connections. When I got back from Florida, I had some flying waiting on me. It has been relatively steady ever since. I'm finally getting the money together to start my CFI. The money I spent with that school I could have paid for my CFI 2 or 3 times at a local flight school or flying club. Be very skeptical at the claims made by these high dollar flight schools, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, only your money. They have very good recruiters that get paid for nothing other than getting new students. Don't believe their BS. The airlines or any other flying operation could care less what school you went to. These employers only look at time, quantity and quality of it, and you as a person. If you only remember one thing, aviaition is all about who you know: network, network, network. Networking got me some pretty nice flight time and experience. Also, don't brush off the thoughts, opinions and suggestions from all these other piots, even if it's not what you wanted to hear, they are only trying to help. They came before us and they've seen it all. I wish I had found these sites before I sunk all the money I did.

I wish you the best of luck on whatever you decide.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Folks, if this isn't flame bait there is no such thing. Everyone is now free to remove the hooks from their cheeks.

 

[xlr857]

The school is $60,000 living for 14mos another 20,000. I cant afford to pay as i go. Plus I will never finish it that way. Plus it is local. The money is financial aid, no im not rich. I dont want to have to rely on my friend for a job. Its to late to back out anyway, so I must think positive. Perhaps you are right I should have researched it more. But going to a job yuo hate everyday clouds your decision making skills. I plan to have a great time and enjoy myself.

 

[350DRIVER]

xlr-
Don't be concerned with the negativity of this board and by all means don't take it to heart. Be real, there are many who are bitter, dissapointed, and angry with the current industry (not the best of times to be a pilot). Times will get better which is for sure, hiring will pick up which is also for sure, the only question now is how long.?? No one knows the real answer, just ride the storm out and you will be rewarded as many others will. You will only live once and don't second guess your choice about where you are going to do your training just make EXTRA sure you finish in the top 10% to get the placement guarentee. A "name" of a flight school will N O T get you any job, it is ultimately up to YOU to prove yourself and put in the hard work that will be required of you. If Pan Am is where you WANT to go then by all means go there and enjoy the time you spend there, work extra hard, prove yourself, and most of all > have FUN since "fun" is a big variable in the equation.

Hang in there, at 26 years of age you will have plenty of years ahead of you to worry about obtaining a job in this industry.


3 5 0

 

[Archer]

By the way, no one is trying to scare the newbies away.

I get that impression to at times. But I think it's just the way things are. the pilot world is not doing all that well in the US it seems, and pilots are unhappy.

When people who have no clue about the current job market come in and say they expect to be jet first officiers by 1000 hours and captains making 50 grand a year by 3000 hours, then currently jobless 4000 hour jet PICs get a little pissed off I guess.

It just seems to go against instinct...that such an important job full of responsability and quite difficult, is not well rewarded at this moment for the most part...

Archer

 

[jetpilotjay]

archer and xlr857

It's not that people are trying to scare you away, it's that no one wants to see you get taken advantage of. Most pilots would like to see you succeed if that is your goal. These posts are simply to make you aware thtat flying is not always the way the recruiters promise. I'm NOT saying that you WON'T get where they promised, I really hope you do. I have alot of friends that did make it through the bridge pre 9/11, their on furlough now, but will probably get recalled at some point in the future. If the airlines are where you want to be, study the industry, its current condition and expected future for yourself. Take these posts for what they are, opinions. If you stick with this, you will get where you want to be. If you get there faster and with less time and without doing it at the expense of a fellow pilot(scabbing, PFT and other industry no-nos), then more power to you. Good Luck

 

[Archer]

Yes, I understand. The industry sucks, and you guys who are in it are trying to enlighten those of us who are not.

Quite simple.

Cyclical industry, ups and downs. Now there is a big down, that's why everybody is annoyed.

It's just that it's hard for the newby to accept these "facts". Even if they may be temporary...High school seniors who have been working just go their PPL and are excited about flying find out they got to pay some 25 grand for licences and ratings, not to mention university, live on a $9 grand/year for 2-3 years as a CFI, then 20 grand or so as a SIC turboprop if they are lucky, spend countless hours and years doing night shifts in cargo planes, or being called in the middle of the night to ferry some people here and there for a charter....etc..

this outline has been sketched out in front of newbies countless times...it's the truth...but it kind of hurts a little...that's all. And there is nothing wrong with that...it's supposed to. No offense to anyone, but being a 135 turbine PIC is slightly more involving than driving a bus or some other job that pays similary...

oh well, enough for now.

If you love to fly, keep trying to fly. Tha'ts it.

Archer

 

[VFR on Top]

xlr857, check out the Pan Am forum over at JetCareers.com--it might be helpful to get some perspective from Pan Am students before committing to such a large expenditure. I too was impressed by Pan Am's marketing when I first started shopping for flight schools, but it just didn't make sense financially. Good luck to ya.

 

[crxpilot]

dont be so hard on the guy

you dont know what his history is, so why are you bashing his choice of driving a truck for 8 years. maybe he had a family to support, etc. who knows. give the guy a break.....geesh.

If all you have ever wanted to do was fly, why have you been driving trucks for 8 years? It suprises me sometimes when I read posts from people in their thirties and forties (you are 26, so you don't qualify) and they say "I have wanted to fly all my life". Well guess what folks, if you really really loved flying that bad - you would have found a way to do it at an earlier age.

 

[Snakum]

"Well guess what folks, if you really really loved flying that bad - you would have found a way to do it at an earlier age.
"

That is one of the most naive things I've ever read here. Evidently you've not yet lived long enough for LIFE to have upset your applecart or de-railed a plan.

Minh

 

[ACWild]

Cyclical industry, ups and downs. Now there is a big down, that's why everybody is annoyed.

Actually, even during the ups, you will still see alot of posts telling you that the industry sucks. PFT, 16 year contracts, scope, etc. You just can't win sometimes.
If flying is what you want to do, then do it. That's what the rest of us did regardless of what we were told. Those who love it and stick it out usually end up where they want to be. It might take a while, but you don't notice the time as much if you're enjoying what you do.

 

[jsoceanlord]

let me speak my mind;

these flight schools approach to students is; sell, sell , sell (as in bfring in students)

i think i read that if you invest so much money ibnto a roth ira when in your twenty's, you'll retire a millionaire.

i had an F/o who had $30,000 debt to get his ratings

 

[CCDiscoB]

Hot Topic

This is thread isn't even 24 hours old yet and it's almost at page three.

80K of financial aid!? Good for you. If I had 80K of financial aid I'd have a couple cool type ratings. If what you say is true.....because if you're exaggerating…….I hope you’ve considered how long it will take you to repay even 60K? Probably in excess of 15 years!!

I’m all for making an investment in ones career. I had to get my PPL on a credit card so I could pass the AFOQT. However not every investment is a wise one.

I had an opportunity to fly in the right seat of corporate jet recently. I now see how little SIC time is worth and why companies want a lot of PIC time. Any Julio with a multi engine rating and an IFR ticket can sit in the right seat (part 91), and you’re paying 80K for it. The guys that you’re reading about on this board that are unemployed with 3000K hours, I’d bet that 90% of their time is SIC. In my opinion it’s worth ½ on an application. But you gotta start somewhere. Dude, I hope you’re thinking about your wife and kid.

Good Luck, we’re all counting on you.

 

[bobbysamd]

You are in for a rude awakening

Thats good to hear, my school assures me there will be no problem with placement in a regional airline. I guess they have standing orders for graduates straight into an airline.

No, my friend, flight schools don't have "standing orders" for graduates straight into regional airlines. You have been fed a bunch of flight school sales malarkey. It just doesn't work that way in aviation.

With only a couple of exceptions, you don't get a job with a regional airline straight out of flight school. For one thing, you just don't have the hours the regionals require coming out of school. You'll finish with something like 200-250 hours, depending on your program. The regionals want at least 1000 total hours and 100-500 hours of multi. You simply don't have the experience to be a regional pilot at that point. Even with your program and "simulated" jet training, you won't have enough experience or the real world experience regionals want.

That "real world" experience can be flight instructing experience, by the way.

(An exception is MAPD. Mesa hires its graduates at 300 hours. But, they've been training the Mesa way from the first day and have been scrutinized by Mesa from the first day. And, contrary to popular belief, not every MAPD student gets "the interview." And, once you get "the interview," you are on your own. At that point you are competing with the likes of street people with far more experience. Moreover, although MAPD grads have a leg up on street hires on procedures, that is no guarantee in any way that they'll survive training. Any number of MAPD grads wash out, with the resulting PRIA black mark on their records.)

It just makes me worry seeing pilots with 3000+ hours and cant get a job. I will come out of the school with 800+ hours and simulated jet training. What do regional airlines usually look for when they hire pilots.

I have news for you. Pilots with many, many more hours than 3000 aren't getting jobs. It is bound to get worse when United lays off pilots because of its bankruptcy. Many of these extremely experienced individuals will go for the same regional jobs you want. I know. I was in the same boat eleven years ago when Eastern and Pan Am ended and told its pilots not to let the door hit them on their backsides.

I'd suggest you check some of the regional websites. Typically, these days, published mins are at least 1000 total and 200 of multi. I was a regional airline job-seeker eleven-twelve years ago. Requirements back then generally were 1500 total, 500 of multi and an ATP. And, those were only the minimums. The applicant pool drives the actual requirements. I had my first intervew with something like 2800 total and about 700 of multi. I had my ATP at the time.

Having said all this, you are not too old, and if you want to be a professional pilot, go for it. Bearing in mind, of course, the realities that I and others, above, have outlined. Also, get your four-year degree. You will need it to be competitive. Good luck with your plans and don't believe everything you hear about regional jobs straight out of flight school.

Originally posted by generaltso
If all you have ever wanted to do was fly, why have you been driving trucks for 8 years? It suprises me sometimes when I read posts from people in their thirties and forties (you are 26, so you don't qualify) and they say "I have wanted to fly all my life". Well guess what folks, if you really really loved flying that bad - you would have found a way to do it at an earlier age.

I generally like the General's comments, but I take great exception to this blanket statement/denunciation. You cannot lump everyone into the same boat. Everyone has different circumstances. In my case, I had loved airplanes since I first learned to read and watched television. I knew that I at least wanted to learn how to fly one day, but my life took different directions. It took me until my early thirties until I had enough stability and opportunity to commit to learning to fly. And, I never felt that I could have a career. The point is that I did it, finally. For that matter, there are people who've always wanted to go to college, but, for one reason or another, they don't start until they are much older than the typical college student. Don't generalize. Thoughts like that are more typical of H.R. coneheads who probably can't spell "pilot."

PS-Now that I've reread his comments, could this be PFTSuperstar/Riddle Ace/Gulfstream4ever's flamebait again? I hope not - but, it sure reads that way.