You are out of your mind if you choose to work at NETJETS now

[Correcting]

Just want to be sure all of you potential Netjets applicants know that you have got to be out of your minds if you want to work here. It's been said many times before by Griz, etc and I'll say it all again.

DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THE CRAP THEY FEED YOU AT THE INTERVIEW. This board is where you will find the truth.

Pay: Upgrades are non-existent at this point. YOU WILL BE ON F/O PAY FOR A LONG TIME. Don't buy into all the company BS about what they think you can make. THE ONLY THING GUARANTEED IS YOUR SALARY, AND AS AN F/O, THAT COMES TO 28K/YEAR.

You could go to any fast food restaurant and get a job as an assistant manager and make better pay while getting home every night. I've been at NETJETS for 5 years. Folks, it's only getting worse. Contract still not done. NEITHER US NOR MANAGEMENT HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN IT WILL BE DONE. DON'T LET MANAGEMENT SUCKER YOU IN WITH "6 MORE MONTHS".

If you still want to work here because you're insane, consider that you will have to sign a 2-year training contract and NETJETS DOES COME AFTER PEOPLE WHO BREAK IT.

You WILL be tremendously underappreciated by management. You WILL NOT qualify for the 7 on/7 off schedule because of your low seniority. You WILL work 17 days a month, often with only 2 or 3 days at home between tours. DON'T assume the new contract will fix everything UNTIL the new contract is actually done and IN FORCE. I could be a long time.

After all that's been said above and elsewhere on this board, if you still decide to come work at Netjets, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I'm a 5 year captain, so I can make ends meet. BUT I AM LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT AND THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD EVEN CONSIDER COMING HERE FOR A SECOND IF I HAD THE CHANCE TO DO IT TODAY.

 

[I.P. Freley]

So, where do I send my resume? I hear Derinda is still the head of recruiting, is that true?

I can't wait to get my call.

 

[On Your Six]

Newhires shouldn't wait too long as FOs because everyone is leaving, right? So, that concern is invalid given the exodus....

Seriously, where are Netjets guys trying to jump to beyond the typical, super hard-to-get SWA, Jet Blue and AirTran? Are Netjets guys looking at regionals now like Comair or Eagle? How many Netjets guys have left in the last 2-3 months?

I hope you guys get to strike sometime soon in the future....

 

[Humphreybogart]

I've been reading alot of NetJet posts and I think all the complainers are just hoping management takes pity on them and offers them a nice contract. If it is really that bad at ANY job, why don't you just leave? I would. Try flipping burgers on stocking shelves at Walmart. The reason you whining babies won't do that is because they don't have McDonalds or Walmart posting sites for you people to get on and complain about everything. (Maybe they do, I actually don't know!) Anyways, please leave NetJets so people who REALLY want to fly can get the position. Crybabies.

 

[On Your Six]

Flame bait...

Cry babies? If you were paid waaaaaaaaaaay below your peers flying the same aircraft and you were treated like $hit by managment, would you accept it with a smile? Just think about it...

 

[Majik]

Anyways, please leave NetJets so people who REALLY want to fly can get the position. Crybabies.

Nope, not gonna leave just yet. Been trying to change things for 3 years and I'm not ready to give up. I used to have faith in the current MEC. That faith died about a year ago for me. I still believe we can raise the pay substantially, it'll just take a new MEC to unify the membership and put pressure on the company to do it. It may take dumping the teamsters, but I think a majority are willing to continue to see if we can substantially better the salary. You'll continue to hear lots of complaints (me included) as the wait time extends beyond the 3 year mark. You're just gonna have to bear it or ignore these posts.

The folks that want to work here for $28k/year and wait years for the upgrade can come, but many of us feel it's better if they walk in with their eyes open at the beginning. Sorry you can't see that.

 

[Snakeplt]

Don't worry HUMPHREY LOSER, we will vote in a SUBSTANDARD contract...and then I will take my meager retro pay and leave my seat for you. You are obviously a low-life HO' so you will enjoy the 3 to 4 times a month that you are prison raped by management for SUBSTANDARD pay. ALL OF THIS, so you can FLY FOR A LIVING....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....you are an idiotic JOKE and will be the FIRST loser to scream, "PAY ME WHAT I AM WORTH" when the next contract comes around !!! The senior leadership here (including our illustrious Teamsters sanctioned MEC) are all of the "PFT" ilk so you can't really expect too much...but you seem to be such an intelligent fool that you will figure all of this out eventually...of course, based on your comments, I would venture to guess that you would jump out of your THONG if NUTJETS offered you a job for a $10,000 fee. Good luck when Derinda calls you for your BIG BREAK....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...YOU FUNNY MAN !!!!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Majik, I respect what you have to say, and I can appreciate your quest to get what you rightfully deserve.

On the other hand...Snakeplt. First of all, I have a much better job than you have, so I'm not looking to take your seat, but there are alot of other pilots out there that would love to have your job and join Majik in the cockpit. They probably deserve it more than you. Go to work for a low paying regional and talk to me then. You think I'm a joke and a loser? You must have been looking in the mirror when you wrote that. Be honest, you were, right? You are the ultimate CRYBABY.

 

[HA25]

I've been reading alot of NetJet posts and I think all the complainers are just hoping management takes pity on them and offers them a nice contract. If it is really that bad at ANY job, why don't you just leave? I would. Try flipping burgers on stocking shelves at Walmart. The reason you whining babies won't do that is because they don't have McDonalds or Walmart posting sites for you people to get on and complain about everything. (Maybe they do, I actually don't know!) Anyways, please leave NetJets so people who REALLY want to fly can get the position. Crybabies.

It never ceases to amaze me as to how many bottom dwellers we have in our profession... case in point, you call netjets guys cry babies right? Do you feel that $28K for FO and $39K for Captain in a jet carrying around wealthy and important people and working your ass off for 6 to 7 days off in a row is good pay??? IF so you must be some kind of Walmart trailer trash pilot who has low career expectations and a low self worth.

I for one agree that they are under paid and over worked. I work for a good corporate outfit that pays me right and gives me benifits and a great schedule, now they are talking about adding a DA2000 to our fleet using netjets, because "it's cheaper to operate them"... is that what you want for our profession?? A race to the bottom!

Do us all a favor and stick to to your pipers!

 

[Snakeplt]

Humphrey is DEFINITELY a bottom dweller...it is his kind that has created the current industry.

 

[boxhauler]

Hey Hump - If this POS contract gets passed by 50% +1 you'll see lots more attrition. The double dippers, those with blue and orange interviews will take the bonus and 'amscray' That's the only thing many guys are waiting around for. The key is 50% +1 . All you guys that get hired now will only dilute the NO votes and the company knows it. They have our seniority list down pat.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

now they are talking about adding a DA2000 to our fleet using netjets, because "it's cheaper to operate them"...

How come we're losing $$$ ?

 

[HA25]

How come we're losing $$$ ?

Ask Birkshire that question... Fact is, with the buying power of Netjets in fuel, and mx, parts etc... and their edge in labor costs, they should be making a killing.. unless that all being funneled into BH's pockets thru the back door!

 

[atk357]

net jets or flexjets?

Hi There,

I heard about Net Jets and all nice interviews in the Discovery Channel. Also, I received an inquiry from FlexJets. Is it a good idea to acccept their offers when I just have been promoted to Chief Pilot 141 and asst cheif 135 in charge of King Air training for just over 41K a year?

Please, any commnets?

 

[shaq]

It never ceases to amaze me as to how many bottom dwellers we have in our profession... case in point, you call netjets guys cry babies right? Do you feel that $28K for FO and $39K for Captain in a jet carrying around wealthy and important people and working your ass off for 6 to 7 days off in a row is good pay??? IF so you must be some kind of Walmart trailer trash pilot who has low career expectations and a low self worth.

I for one agree that they are under paid and over worked. I work for a good corporate outfit that pays me right and gives me benifits and a great schedule, now they are talking about adding a DA2000 to our fleet using netjets, because "it's cheaper to operate them"... is that what you want for our profession?? A race to the bottom!

Do us all a favor and stick to to your pipers!

The usage of the Wal-Mart terminology is somewhat ironic. Their pilots make a h*ll of a lot more than Netjets guys flying a lot less , with WAY fewer overnights, in smaller equipment... Something to keep in mind.

 

[HA25]

Saying that Walmart a full blown FAR 91 corporate flight department, under the world's largest corporation pays better than the lowest paid pilots in the entire corporate jet world is not saying much.

Lets compare GE, IBM, Coke and BofA pilot pay with Walmart... that's more of an apples to apples.

 

[FlightTraker]

I interviewed with WalMart a few months ago. Starting pay for Lear 31 FO was $43K, work 14 days a month, (2 which are overnights) home 80% of the time before 5:30 pm. And you will know your schedule for the whole year. Well at least that is the kool-aid I was served



FlightTraker

 

[HA25]

I interviewed with WalMart a few months ago. Starting pay for Lear 31 FO was $43K, work 14 days a month, (2 which are overnights) home 80% of the time before 5:30 pm. And you will know your schedule for the whole year. Well at least that is the kool-aid I was served



FlightTraker

Ask them what you cap at, that the clincher.. unless you fly their global, for get about seeing a real corporate pilots pay.

 

[G100driver]

I've been reading alot of NetJet posts and I think all the complainers are just hoping management takes pity on them and offers them a nice contract. If it is really that bad at ANY job, why don't you just leave? I would. Try flipping burgers on stocking shelves at Walmart. The reason you whining babies won't do that is because they don't have McDonalds or Walmart posting sites for you people to get on and complain about everything. (Maybe they do, I actually don't know!) Anyways, please leave NetJets so people who REALLY want to fly can get the position. Crybabies.

Future SCAB in training .... what a loser

 

[shaq]

Ask them what you cap at, that the clincher.. unless you fly their global, for get about seeing a real corporate pilots pay.

I don't think you're getting my point, WM's numbers stated here are pretty accurate. So 43,000 - 27000 = $16,000 raise... Like I said, a 16,000 raise to be home a hell of a lot more, flying less, in smaller equipment... Just trying to say that if someone like Wal-Mart (who doesn't over pay anyone) pays their pilots that well, why can't Netjets get that kind of cash. That's my point, I really don't understand what yours was.

I really don't get what your point is ("real corporate pilot's pay")... I am not promoting anything about Wal-Mart, BELIEVE ME... However, they pay their pilots way better with a substantial QOL improvement. Is Netjet's real corporate pilot pay? Why shouldn't they get "real corporate pilot's pay" ? Aren't they corporate pilots? What the heck are trying say here. By the way, comparing WM's department to B of A, Coke, IBM, etc... is NOT apples to apples. PERIOD.... Their Global and Challenger are 2 airplanes out of roughly 25. When/if those types of aircraft become more of a majority of their operations like those other companies, things could change but for now I'd say things will pretty much revolve around the Lears. I haven't heard of too many places paying more than they do to fly a 30 series Lear. I think I will just quit this thread not enough common sense here for me...

 

[Caveman]

V70T5 posted:

"It never ceases to amaze me as to how many bottom dwellers we have in our profession... case in point, you call netjets guys cry babies right? Do you feel that $28K for FO and $39K for Captain in a jet carrying around wealthy and important people and working your ass off for 6 to 7 days off in a row is good pay??? IF so you must be some kind of Walmart trailer trash pilot who has low career expectations and a low self worth."

In case you haven't noticed, all the NJ pilots on property already agreed that their current contract was adequate or else they wouldn't have agreed to work there. Does that make them all "Walmart trailer trash pilots" or "bottom dwellers"? Or are you suggesting that it's o.k. to take a bottom dwelling trailer trash job as long as you complain about it later? Why was it o.k. for the current NJ pilots to accept the job under these terms but it's not o.k. for a new guy to take the same job under the same terms?

I support the NJ pilots efforts to get a better contract, but I also support the new guy wanting to get started.

 

[Lrjet55]

I understand your point Caveman but what we are trying to tell people is dont get your start here.


Go to a regional and build the time twice as fast for the same money and a thousand times less hassle.

We all did come to Nutjets knowing what we were getting into, this is true. For probably over 1000 of us we were also told the contract would be completed within a few months, our dipsh!t MEC members told us what salaries to expect and the owner of the company told us he would shell out the big money if we gave him the flexibility.

Now, can you beleive everything the owner of the company says, obviously not.

Can you believe everything the management folks tell you in the interview briefings, well, you try to read between the lines.

When you get suckered in and accept the job here can you believe your own MEC...HELL NO!!!!

Sad part is all of us did for one reason or another. Now we are here feeling duped and, yes, we are complaining about it.

Never in our wildest dreams did we imagine that our future management MEC members would do such a poor job of negotiating a contract. I would never say that they have intentionally sold us out but through consistently poor advise, poor negotiating tactics and poor representation we have arrived at the point where we are now.

Brief synopsis and a few examples.

First,NJA's MEC wasted 4 months negotiating duty and rest when they knew that subpart K was coming out. They spent 4 freaking months negotiating something that didnt need to be negotiated because when the FAA mandated fractional companies adhere to Subpart K duty and rest were completed in 1 week!

Next, MEC members were quoted as saying "we will not accept anything less that 120K to 125K at year five for an airplane around 30,000lbs." This statement and subsequent statements there after were all very similar. If you are told by the supposed leaders of your union figures such as these you begin to dream about a possible reality.
This weekend we will probably see a TA placing a 5 year captain making around 70K. Thats quite a disparity between what we were told to what we will see.

My point here is explain to prospective NJA employees that this place is not a career job. Its not even a descent stepping stone. As I mentioned earlier you can accomplish your goals much faster by applying to a regional instead.

If you want to be worked like a dog, be gone 7 days a time, never fly a leg with passengers, fly with guys who will turn an airplane in 15 minutes evne thought were supposed to take an hour or any of the countless other reason mentions on this BBS then welsome aboard.

If staying in nice hotels and eating alot of crew food is a sufficient quality of life aspect worth putting up with the negatives then weclcome aboard.

In essence we are a Berkshire Hathaway/ Warren Buffet company. Based on any prior knowledge of this company who in their wildest dreams could have imagined that making 70K after 5 years would be the best you could do.
I personally do not buy it but our MEC does and they will TA it.

 

[Caveman]

Lrjet55,

There is a world of difference between your tone and V70T5's. Advising someone not come to NJ because it's not good right now and the future doesn't look very promising is a lot different than calling someone considering NJ a "Walmart trailer trash bottom feeder".

 

[Lrjet55]

In my opinion working for Walmart is a huge step up compared to NJA.

 

[CatYaaak]

IIs Netjet's real corporate pilot pay? Why shouldn't they get "real corporate pilot's pay" ? Aren't they corporate pilots?

No, they aren't.

Like it or not, frac pilots are considered a commodity, labor, working for and being paid by companies who's core business is aviation, and flying airplanes that generate direct revenue (along with mngmt fees etc). That's the nature of the business, and because of this structure, there's a disconnect between the "psuedo-owers" businesses and the pilot's. They aren't fellow employees, the money-relationship is more akin to an airline or charter pilot's with the paying customer in back. And like any airline or charter company, this direct revenue-generating part of operating the aircraft in the frac company's profit equation on a per-hour basis, the frac company will attempt to keep wages as low as possible. They don't care who's filling the seat, as long as they work for the lowest wage possible and don't crash. The fact that frac pilots are paid hourly wages, unionize or consider it necessary, and are at loggerheads with management says it all.

On the other hand, a corporate flight department NEVER generates direct revenue, and flying airplanes isn't the company's core business. Corporate airplanes are an expense, a special-use tool that either saves the larger comany time/money, makes money for it only by indirect means, or furthers larger company strategy and security goals. In the good ones anyway, pilots who are a good fit are seen as an asset to be retained, and paid accordingly in yearly salary and benefits. The pilots and people in back are working for the same company.

It didn't "just happen" that corporate flight departments pay better than fractionals. Fractionals came into being and became successful in part because their labor costs were/are low. The vast majority of pilots going to worked for fracs in those expanding, formative years a decade ago were PFT-ing and signing training contracts and working for crap wages mainly for one reason...to build stepping-stone jet time where there was none to be had at the regionals because RJs were still rare. Most of those early airline-bound frac pilots never intended to fly in the corporate world, or bothered to find out much about it. It was never a corporate job...it was, and still is, a morphed charter/airline operation that included enough tax breaks they found it necessary to write a new supart for.

Well, frac companies STILL work on that revenue-generating equation they were built on. What changed though, is that now with no places to step to, frac pilots there have finally awakened to the fact that the wages suck. But comparing frac companies and corporate flight departments..while it's a handy illusion by virtue of the fact they fly similar aircraft...is an illusion nonetheless.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

well said....big differences..

Frac pilots make a living working in "Aviation"..

Corp pilots make thier living working in telecom, finance, manufacturing, etc....whatever thier company does - they just happen to fly the airplanes.

Making your living at a company where revenues are based on "Aviation" is just plain scary these days == and thats unfortunate.

 

[Lrjet55]

The very fact we are not a corporate flight department means our lives are supposedly better due to a schedule, benefits and perceived sense of secuity. On the other hand a typical corporate flight department has less RON's, less benefits and makes a larger salary since showing a profit is not in the equation. NJA has taken the best of both arguments and created a formula for what we have today.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The very fact we are not a corporate flight department means our lives are supposedly better due to a schedule, benefits and perceived sense of secuity. On the other hand a typical corporate flight department has less RON's, less benefits and makes a larger salary since showing a profit is not in the equation. NJA has taken the best of both arguments and created a formula for what we have today.

lives better due to schedule?
benefits?
sense of security?

Is that what they are telling newbies over there???

The only formula that has been created is the formula for abusing the $hit out of a charter pilot at regional airline pay....Netjets.

guys, shop around, there is much better out there!

 

[NJA Capt]

Frac pilots make a living working in "Aviation"..

Corp pilots make their living working in telecom, finance, manufacturing, etc....whatever their company does - they just happen to fly the airplanes.

Making your living at a company where revenues are based on "Aviation" is just plain scary these days == and that's unfortunate.

Dude, you need to look in the mirror. You just described yourself. Corp pilots "just happen to fly the planes" too.

I don't see you (the pilot) building semiconductors, writing loans, or building anything but time. You "just fly the plane" too. Unless you work for one of those real jewel corp depts that make you work the office, loading dock, or drive a truck when you aren't flying. The people you carry in the back run the company.......oh wait, that's like us.

You think making a living where aviation IS making money is scary? You have your head screwed on backwards. As Catyaak said, corp departments are an expense on the part of the company you fly for. When times are bad, what gets trimmed? Profits of expenses?

We are ALL "just working in aviation."

By the way, I have seen several Fortune 100 flight department literally disappear. Departments around since the '30/'40s, gone overnight. No-one is immune, so watch out standing on that pedestal.

lives better due to schedule?

Yea, I know mine to January. How about you?

benefits?

Free stereo, mountain bike, trips to Hawaii/Beach/etc.
And real live med/dental/vis too.

sense of security?

Our flight dept has made a few $billion. How about yours? Oh yea, you're an expense.


This argument has got to stop. It's the same as Commuter pilots saying they don't fly Regional jets, when the word Regional is stamped on the side of the plane.

We both fly other people in THEIR business jets.
We both fly non-scheduled business/personal flights.
We are both paid what our company feels is fair, whether we agree with the figure or not.

You can knock off the PFT ideas too. They did something similar for a limited time, decided it didn't work, and gave all of the money back. How many PFTs have ever given the money back, AND given them a type? There are corp departments that STILL require their people to pay for a type/training too. Many pay for the training and aren't allowed a type until they upgrade.

There are too many insecure people on this board that try to justify their place in life, and attempting to make themselves look more fortunate, by degrading everyone else's position.

It's o-v-e-r. Let's move on.

 

[Lrjet55]

The only formula that has been created is the formula for abusing the $hit out of a charter pilot at regional airline pay....Netjets.

This was the jist of my post only I submitted it without your elitist attitude.